moonshine

Hope this can help you some.....as a newcomer a year ago going with 464 I am not a "vet" by any means but started making candles a year ago and decided I wanted soy wax and went with the 464 because of all that I read on how much fragrance load it could handle- and being brand new I loaded up my candles at 12% FO and hated the way they looked and burned not really understanding why at that time I then switched to cb advanced but found without literally setting my nose hairs on fire I couldnt get a wiff of scent from them so I then switched to cb135. I did have good candles with the 135 at 8% FO and they looked good and burned good but I got it in my head from everything I read that 135 doesnt have good enough HT (based off alot of peoples opinions) and so I then went back to 464 I have been testing 464 for many months now and I am happy with my results but I do still wish I would have stuck with the 135- it would be at this point way to costly for me to go back again- testing is soooo expensive and time consuming but my gut kept telling me 135 and maybe one day if I win the lottery I will start over with this wax but I have come to far with 464 to switch again. Point being you have to go with what feels right to you and what you think is working for you not by what you read on what everyone else is using- its a great starting point to get a feel for how many people are using "X" wax and why and there is so much great information on all waxes on this forum to learn from but as far as deciding what type of wax you are going to use you need to use your own judgement- if that makes any sense- There are so many variables involved and everyone has different results- a candle is a system as people point out and once you decide on what you are going to go with you will spend alot of time and money making them all come together I have learned using the 464 that just because it CAN handle 12% FO it doesnt mean to use it- it absolutely affects everything- I can get a great candle with this now in my opinion and standards with 8%. I do still use the 135 for EO blends- it just works better for me.

So after your first pour your candles the tops are smooth- its after you burn them they have the "moon Crater" look? I thought you had rough tops at first pour.... I also have this look after burning and I really havent thought about trying to eliminate it- for me I dont want to mess with blends or adding anything to my wax to stop this from happening (IF it is possible)- I have settled for the cottage cheese look after burn like the other poster replied to you- I think that is all a matter of personal preference as to whether or not you can deal with it- if its not affecting the burn or HT why bother is my outlook:cheesy2: I have read before that it IS the nature of soy wax- even though 464 is a blended soy wax with additives already to reduce frosting - so my my thoughts are unless its really bugging you and you want to play with different additives or whatever is needed to eliminate the look- let it be My candles do not look awful after burning there is just some cratering in the tops and some more so than others which is probably due to FO and wick combinations-dont really know but I do know some wicks I have used in the past (eco) make them look really bad after burns. I have only been candle making for 1 year but have tried alot of different soy waxes and so far I do like the 464 the best overall, maybe someone else will step in and offer input as to what you could do to make them smooth all the way down to last burn... I have purchased soy candles at our local farmers market and the same thing with theirs- they crater after burn but it doesnt effect anything else hope that helps some in deciding whether you want to go there or not:cheesy2:

Oakmoss and Amber in soy wax melts is beautiful! I really do like it- there is not too much amber in it though but when I stepped into our office with this going and a dozen test candles at the the same time- all you could smell was the oakmoss. It is a very masculine scent that reminds me of stepping into the mens cologne section at the department store- love it!

Got mine over the weekend and I am not good at describing scents at all but I do really like it- It reminds me alot like the bath and body works "noir" spray for men or some of the AXE body sprays I dont smell to much Amber OOB but I am getting alot of woody notes with a touch of pine or green smell It smells very masculine earthy to me and I dont make soap but will throw it in wax (I use soy) and make melts- I think I am going to love it- the woods/earthy smells are my favorite!

I tried to single wick with a CD 22 on that tin with the 464 and it looked like a yankee jar- wax all over on the sides.... not sure single wick is the answer on that tin, I have not revisited it yet either but when I do I am thinking 2 or 3 for that baby! Good Luck

Thanks Candybee and Nursenancy! I am starting to think the same thing.....I love it for votives also but this heart thing not so much! and a heart was probably not the smartest choice for first pillar ever! LOL Trying another htp and then will move on to something less frustrating:cheesy2: Thank you so much

Please do not use EO in lip balm- EO's diluted properly on skin is one thing- on the mouth is whole other and NOT safe Flavored skin safe oils made for that purpose are the better choice

Heart shaped glass jars- those sound very cool!! I am on my last test wick with this heart and then throwing in the towel! LOL The three wick I tried burned straight down to the paper plate I had it on within a half hour and almost set the plate on fire- not good!! LOL:cheesy2: I used htp 52's which I have done the 16oz tins in before and they worked well but I guess a pillar is whole different breed- a breed I pretty much think I will adventure in way later down the road Thanks for the reply

Lemon Pound Cake from Peak is very good- it smells just like baking one in your oven but I now think of it as fruit loops as my friends daughter says it smells just like them

Eco 14 was way to hot for me in the 464 with 8oz jar- and for some reason the Ecos turned my wax in every fragrance a real deep orange yellow- it looked gross like crisco- butter flavored melted down I use the square 8oz mason jar and have been having great results with htp wicks For me the HT is awesome but I let them cure for a week before lighting but it could also be your temps that you heat-add Fo and pour at that could contribute to poor throw- it took me half a year to find what works for me in my conditons- a simple tweak in temperatures made all the difference for me because at first I was having no luck with HT either If you go to the search and put in 464 there is sooooo many great reads on this wax Good Luck:cheesy2:

Hey everyone- I have been trying for weeks to wick a flippin heart shaped pillar with ecosoya pb and it is just not working out... I used 6% FO from CS and the mold itself is about 3.5" at the widest and I have tried: 1- cd 6- it works as far as meltpool not busting thru but very weak flame and a oval shaped meltpool that doesnt look cool 1-cd 8- way to hot- it bust thru within 2 hours 1-eco 8- way to hot also 1- eco 10- way to hot 1-htp 83- it works but again to weak of flame- looks wimpy 2- c60- not hot enough 3- htp 52- it is looking alright but may reach the edge and bust next lighting Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to try and what is best- 1 wick or 3? I really wanted a couple for Valentines Day for my friend who owns a massage center to have burning for her VDay Specials Thanks:cheesy2: And yes this is my first attempt at pillars and I am pretty much thinking I hate em

I completely agree! I am not sure which is more scarier! lol I wish they had more regulations on EO's- they can be so toxic and alot of people think because they are pure they are perfectly safe.... common sense is a must:)

seriously?? I know nothing about soaping- that is very interesting...and what is the purpose for beef fat in a bar of soap? does it help with really dry cracked skin.....may have to buy some from you!!

What temperature are you heating the 464? when do you add the FO and what temperature are you pouring? heated jars or not? I had a major issue with rough tops in the 464 for a very long time- always had to use a heat gun and yes after each burn they would have some "crater" look to them but I finally figured out my temps for my environment to have perfect tops with the exception of a couple oils I am curious as to what temp your heating to- because that was all my problem- for me I was heating to hot

If you wanted to get really crazy you could research making a tallow candle- I read somewhere before way back in the day before "normal" waxes they made them of I think beef fat....real smokey and stinky! I wouldn't go there but it sounds like it would work- beef fat....yuck!

Can you guys tell me how this fragrance is supposed to smell? I swear I had one years ago that was a creamy vanilla with a twist of fruit and kind of sun tan oil smelling but the oil I got from JS is not like that- its not bad just not what I thought it was supposed to be My son says it smells like starburst and my friend says it the best fruit smell ever- I would like to try another company as well but I may be totally wrong on what I thought I had Now the JS version of monkey farts - they call it funky monkey I really do like- its not to banana-e

Hi Bella Rose- I use the wick pins- cant say I have made to many votives as I just started candles a year ago and recently branched into votives I really like them- I kinda have ADD and forget to check the wax to see when its congealed enough to set the wick so for me they are perfect- I fill and walk away and I have found they are super easy to wick afterward. Another thing that makes it nice is wick testing- if its not working out right away you can pull it out and pretty successfully change it so long as it hasnt burned for to long. The only issue which is not much considering is that the pins themselves are a little smaller than the base of the votive mold so being as anal as I am I have to make sure they are dead center in the mold before pouring- I go crazy if the wick is even the slightest off center but that is a personal problem!! LOL Your votives look great! Good luck and welcome- there are so many nice helpful people here and you will soon find the search function to be your new best friend- soo many good reads on everything!

You are absolutely right Steve- There is nothing worse than trying to contribute on this forum and get a lashing for it or the disrespect of trying to discredit someone...everyone has different opinions and views and I love reading all of them (its how I learn) and in this case I am sorry but I had enough and lashed back- a good debate or discussion would start along the lines of...."I believe" or "it is of my opinion" or "my knowledge and research"....you get the idea I really am a very laid back reserved person...hate confrontation

I love Snowdrift Farm- a few of my favorite FO's are: Eskimo Kisses Orange Pomander Grapefruit Lily Vanilla Bean Their internet customer service is slow but shipping and all else is very good!

Hi EricofAZ Your candle sounds absolutely amazing and I did a quick reference to the ingredients and the only one that "could" be a threat is the clary sage here is a precautionary warning regarding that oil- again its in extreme doses whether through inhalation or skin application: Safety Data: Avoid in hypotension, estrogen dependant cancers, and while pregnant. Various sources state that the scalreol content contained within Clary Sage may induce an "estrogen-like action." For that reason, it would be wise for those with breast cancer, at high risk for breast cancer or that need to carefully regulate their estrogen levels avoid Clary Sage The rest are perfect for anxiety and calming effects- and the only other that has a warning is Lemon- it can be phototoxic but unless you take your melted wax and rub it all over and bake yourself in the sunshine.....haha I use the bulgarian Lavender and the 40/42 - 40/42 is less expensive but does not have as much "therapeutic" qualities it is more for scent and perfumes Chamomile, Neroli and Rose are insanely priced!! I have used Egyptian Rose Geranium and love it- it has both qualities of rose and geranium and its somewhat affordable- it is very "balancing" believe it helps horses and riders relax before going into the show ring- I have several requests to bring this potion to the high school competitions! Good luck and it all sounds good- if you choose to keep the clary sage(I use this alot in horse baths) you could just put a warning on the label - the amount in your candle is probably safe but the warning is there I buy most of my oils from Snowdrift Farm and Mountain Rose Herbs- Mountain Rose has very accurate up to date information and precautions on their descriptions- based off my courses anyways. Good Luck:cheesy2:

Thanks everyone for the backup I may not be an experienced "chandler" but that is why I joined this forum -to learn everything I can to make a decent candle- but I do have a little knowledge in EO's (I dont know everything)- I am NOT certified--YET and thought I could offer something here in terms of what I have learned about them so far Most states do not require you be certified in aromatherapy to make and sell products containing Essential Oils which is pretty scary, if you are administering them to people you have to have certification- I do not plan on adminstering but want the certification for my own personal satisifaction so I can comfortably back up and know the warnings of each of the oils for the products that I make. I make alot of "potions" for horses and it is being well known in my area (kinda scary) and people call me up before they go buy a chemical- treating lice for example.... on the bottle of powder for a horse it states how toxic the product is- wear a mask, gloves do not breathe in the product- pretty impossible when your coating a 1000lb plus horse in a powder with the slightest breeze- and how do you protect the horse...they have to wear the crap and then need it re-applied every couple of weeks to make sure you have killed the eggs! I brought home a rescue a couple years back that my daughter knew and showed in the past- excellent western pleasure horse-he was 400lbs underweight, lost most of his teeth due to trying to scrap whatever nutrition he could off the frozen ground and fence posts and he was full of lice....I could hardly get him on and off the trailer and he was so weak and lifeless and HUNGRY so I bought the powder crap for the lice and just couldnt bring myself to do it- he was already so compromised and had bald spots everywhere from rubbing that were oozing and infected (I should post a pic-it was pathetic) so real long story short I went in and rounded up oils I knew had repellent qualities, researched their safety in animals and put the "human" safe ratio into a base of neem oil- neem stinks like nothing I have ever smelled before- real strong garlic sulphur odor- and it was winter-cold and miserable- I kept adding hot water to the spray bottle to dilute it more and make it more sprayable (neem is very thick) and threw a heavy winter blanket on him- next day despite the fact that he was glowing a orange yellow in all the bald spots- all the lice were immobilized- I could not find one that was moving, it was to cold to bathe him so after brushing him real good and checking him on a daily basis I had not ever found another moving bug on him- the potion killed the eggs as well! A friend of mine took a baby from that farm and same thing- full of lice and the potion worked in one application- the plus side to all of it was that the bald spots started to grow thick healthy hair within 2 days- the hair is discolored from nerve damage, he was blistered and raw from rubbing and the sores healed very quickly also attributed to the neem oil. Since then I have provided a few others with this potion (lice is rare in horses) and it worked beautifully for them as well. I am rambling again but my point of this whole thing is I would never insinuate that I know everthing about EO's- and I always use extreme caution with them- and as Stella pointed out there is alot of "misleading" information regarding them- you can go to two different sites on the web and get two different answers (and the web itself had very little info on them)- so who is to say SHE is not being misled by what she has read- to tell someone their information is "incorrect" for candle application blows me away- you can never be to safe with EO's. AND one more thing- the links she provided for family physicians (I did not click on them)- family physicians and holistic practioners are NOT the same thing- one has been educated and certified in Aromatherapy- herbs and oils-I worked in an office that had both and they butt heads quite often-in a friendly way- anyone watch Private Practice??? same thing- a holistic Doc with regular MD's- dont always agree sorry for the long post- I easily get carried away!!

A review from Natures Garden compares their Kama Sutra- Satin Sheets fragrance oil to Coty's Wild Musk You might want to check that one out

Sorry for ruining this thread Sparky but.... wow Stella..you ARE Einstein- you just SEEM to think you know everything about EVERYTHING dont you- My information is NOT incorrect for this application- I hardly think all the courses I have taken in Aromatherapy approved by NAHA are "misinforming" me! I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone in detail who obviously has nothing better to do than go on here and TRY and miscredit everything people say- are you really that person.... YES the amount of Oil absorbed is minute from a candle BUT dont you think its wise to be cautious about it and label the product accordingly? You yourself are always preaching to "newbies" safety, safety, safety, read, read, read- If a new candle maker went and dumped a bottle of peppermint EO into a candle YES there would be problems- I was only advising the urgency to be careful in using certain oils and read, read, read before you use!! "the amount of peppermint in over-the-counter medications, topical preparations, and herbal teas is likely safe in pregnant and lactating women and in young children" Didnt realize the tea we drink contains pure EO- hardly the same as a few peppermint leaves "It is the responsibility of customers who have health issues and environmental concerns to inform themselves about their particular conditions and not rely upon extra verbiage on a warning label." A simple precautionary warning is much better than accusations down the road No Im not confused about flashpoint- it was another precautionary warning to a new candle maker getting ready to dive into essential oils knowing nothing about them YES epilyptic and pregnant people SHOULD avoid PURE peppermint- Peppermint Essential Oil Botanical Name: Mentha piperita Common Method of Extraction: Steam Distilled Color: Clear with a Yellow Tinge Consistency: Thin Perfumery Note: Top Strength of Initial Aroma: Strong Aromatic Description: Minty, reminiscent of peppermint candies, but more concentrated. More fragrant than spearmint. Possible Uses: Asthma, colic, exhaustion, fever, flatulence, headache, nausea, scabies, sinusitis, vertigo. [Julia Lawless, The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Essential Oils (Rockport, MA: Element Books, 1995), 59-67.] Constituents: Menthyl Acetate, Menthone, Cineole, Limonene, Phellandrene, Pinene, Beta-Caryophyllene [shirley Price, The Aromatherapy Workbook (Hammersmith, London: Thorsons, 1993), 54-5.] Safety Information: Avoid in cardiac fibrillation, epilepsy, fever. Mucous membrane irritant and neurotoxic (toxic to the nerves). so there you have the epilepsy warning I have poisoned myself with inhaling to much EO not realizing the potency of them- I was very sick for several months I stand behind using caution with EO even though its diluted in wax 1 ounce per pound probably will not have any effect on people but if you remember the thread in the first place- the question was how much can I use???

Hi Sparky- I have used and studied essential oils for a very long time and that is what eventually lead me into the candle making. You can use EO's in candles but you need to be very cautious in doing so- they can be harmful in high doses and there are certain ones that have been banned but still available on the internet that you should never use: pennyroyal being one of them Are you using soy or paraffin? I have no experience in paraffin but in soy- and I recommend the CB 135 for EO's- you can use maximum of 6%- 1 oz per pound but this is very costly to do especially with pure EO. Even though the oil is not being absorbed in the skin it is being released into the air which in turn enters the blood stream- pregnant people should never use peppermint EO and neither should epileptics- it can trigger seizures and contractions- please read up on every oil you use and put the appropriate cautions on the candles. I have used 6% with much success in scent throw and some I had to cut back because it was to strong- to 4 % but the scent may not last as long as FO either depending on what you use- EO's are very flammable so be careful what you use and test them first Have fun and good luck