Well, maybe there is differant sizes of these. Works fine with round mold but the lip on the bottom of square is only 1/4 inch. Is what you are saying, you put the mold in the water before pourring? I have the chain and it stays down fine, its just getting it in the bucket. My last one for the night (round of course) came out better than all the rest. No pits, no bubbles on picture, no excess wax on picture, smooth inside. Just one problem, picture tilted. Gesh, I think I have had all the problems, all one differant ones. I am trying to do some of these for our VFW. OK back in the pot!!! This is fun, but boy does it take patience. Thank you for your help.