Camay Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 From a chemistry stand point, I disagree. It is no longer acetic acid, because it has chemically bonded through it's acid group to something else. It is no longer an acid, it is no longer acetic acid. You cannot separate acetic acid out of the FO if you did some sort of chromatography, or other separation technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) No no, your right. I mean...a cake contains eggs...and flower and when it's compounded into creates "cake batter" an entirely new substance. Same can be said for aroma accords/compounds. It isn't acetic acid any longer, but that doesn't mean it wasn't used in the compound. Which is what I've actually been saying! (badly) The vinegar-like aspect may or may not be a factor in it's final outcome, but that doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't used. Depending upon it's usage, it may in fact still smell balsamic...but I doubt it. It's just used to further improve or create a new scent characteristic that would be lacking otherwise had it not been chemically compounded with another molecule. Not sure why we're bantering...LOL.In this case the newly compounded "acetic acidphenyl methyl ester" is now a tropical herb floral that contributes to the ocean fragrance. Many oceanic scents use florals, specifically myrtle and jasmine, again used as a top note. Used sparingly it imparts a salty fresh quality. Though it's often used to heavily in most ocean scents in my opinion. Edited April 30, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) See post above yours. It isn't vinegar.Yes and no. When compounded with other molecules it is no longer "vinegar" But...that doesn't mean that it's absent in FOs... Edited April 30, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camay Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 A good argument leads to progress. I like your eggs to cake analogy. However, it does infer that the acetate group originally came from acetic acid. This might be true, I don't know, but it is probably reasonable to assume. Acetic acid is cheap.I would love to do an internship at one of the big fragrance manufacturers to learn all about formulation. That would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 That would be cool! If not an internship...I'd settle for Q&A tour. We should schedule a group field trip! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Save on Scents has a new fragrance out called "Water". Not sure what it smells like as there is no description, but it might smell oceanic. I'll have to try it. If not, it might be mild enough to blend with their "Fishing Pier" fragrance to create a more dynamic ocean blend. Unless by "water" they mean swimming pool water - which would also be a fun FO for Summer. Edited May 1, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowworm Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) That was the goal, but I think the message got lost amongst the sea of replies (corny pun intended) I'm all for doing an ocean FO scent swap although I think it would be difficult getting everyone to contribute a tart. I was thinking just small sniffies or drams of the fragrance!? IDK. Never done one before - not real sure how to get it going. Would be fun!Would you be interested in being the mix master if we could get a group of us to send you samples of all of these so-called "ocean scents" that we have on hand? I am not great at mixing yet but I know how it feels (and how expensive it is) to constantly search for a scent only to have one disappointment after another. I love the smell of the "real" ocean and would be elated if together we could come up with a close fragrance match. I have salty sailor from daystar and cactus and sea salt from ics that I would be willing to send to start the party:) Edited May 2, 2012 by glowworm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Would you be interested in being the mix master if we could get a group of us to send you samples of all of these so-called "ocean scents" that we have on hand? I am not great at mixing yet but I know how it feels (and how expensive it is) to constantly search for a scent only to have one disappointment after another. I love the smell of the "real" ocean and would be elated if together we could come up with a close fragrance match. I have salty sailor from daystar and cactus and sea salt from ics that I would be willing to send to start the party:)Sure. I'd be honored. I'll have to get my supplies all ready. I have tons of small little vials that I can send out. And, with other participant's feedback on the scent blend(s) we would then improve the formula; working together to have a realistic ocean scent developed and eventually freely manufactured at any number of suppliers, so everyone can benefit! I have a selection of EOs and some rather off the wall aroma chems that I think would greatly impact the realism of this very real, very hard to find scent. I would need a good clean ocean base to start with ( fresh and green but not at all floral or powdery) to build upon. We would have to collect FO donations from many suppliers.The problem is everyone has a different interpretation of "ocean". Some prefer the beach-like smells that warm powdery smell. While other members, may like only the green herbal citrons, and other still prefer the metallic ozone like wet notes with those floral hints in the background. Me...I'm on the fence, as I like it all, but in moderation. I actually feel like most, if not all of these so called ocean scents, lack that mild briny-fishy realism that...would boost the scent into a more realistic quality. I'm not looking for bathroom air-freshener scents. LOL. I'm looking for "ocean" in a bottle. The warmth of the sun, the hint of air, the dirty dune grass, the warped water-damaged dock, the bitter sands, and the cool smell of the ocean, and it's briny waters. But mostly the scent of the ocean alone.That sounds like a great idea! Party started! W need a few more members to contribute their best ocean FOs. Thanks for offering to send some of your ocean scents. It can get expensive trying to strike the right balance between realism, throw power, usage, and overall satisfaction of scent blends. Heck, sometimes you add one extra aroma ingredient, and it ruins the entire blend! LOL. I can't guarantee my nose is any better than any other members' ( I'd never make such ridiculous claim) I'll still gladly attempt to mix up some ocean blends and ship them out for group evaluation.The process would be to: Take donations of ocean FOs, with members listing what they do/do not like and about a particular fragrance, After collecting, attempt to blend scents, ship out the newly-created fragrance in small vials, asking opinions on scent approval, recipe changes, etc...possibly with more vials being sent out, then I would buy the FOs to make the approved blend again, and lastly send "that" to a supplier for duplication so we can have our very own custom forum-created ocean scent, forever!It would be a tedious yet fun forum project, and we get a supplier to make OUR ocean FO! Edited May 2, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowworm Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Well, count me in I think your description sounds spot on to what I too think a true ocean scent should smell like. The only thing I would add is a salty component. I really like both salty sailor and cactus and sea salt but they both need a little (or a lot) of ??? to make them smell more realistic...imo. Just let me know how much of each you think you would need of each and I would be more than happy to send them out. Maybe if we could find a formula that wasn't too complicated we could just use the raw ingredients and not have to have anyone manufacture it for us. This sounds fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Well, count me in I think your description sounds spot on to what I too think a true ocean scent should smell like. The only thing I would add is a salty component. I really like both salty sailor and cactus and sea salt but they both need a little (or a lot) of ??? to make them smell more realistic...imo. Just let me know how much of each you think you would need of each and I would be more than happy to send them out. Maybe if we could find a formula that wasn't too complicated we could just use the raw ingredients and not have to have anyone manufacture it for us. This sounds fun! GREAT! Well we just need a few more participants and a few more favorite Ocean FOs to get the process going. I have about 3 or so from Save on Scents that I'd be willing to toss into the ring for further blending. Need a few more, and we should be good to go. I'll PM you with the details, unless I create a new thread with better instructions.We need more participants. Anyone else want to participate in the Great Scent Challenge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowworm Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 GREAT! Well we just need a few more participants and a few more favorite Ocean FOs to get the process going. I have about 3 or so from Save on Scents that I'd be willing to toss into the ring for further blending. Need a few more, and we should be good to go. I'll PM you with the details, unless I create a new thread with better instructions.Sounds good:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 How much do you think you need of each FO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) How much do you think you need of each FO?.33 oz or more of a particular FO. ( amount needed would probably decrease if more forum members participate)This may seem like a lot but once the blending gets underway and the first ocean scent batches get shipped out for group evaluation, chances are good that the blend will require further tweaks to the recipe using up any remaining FOs for subsequent batches. IF there is any remaining FOs, I would use it to create the custom-created ocean fragrance again, this time to send to a supplier for duplication (they require an oz) I can already predict I'll have to order more should I have to create the formula again, as the ones donated would have been used. But, if any of the FOs sent to me are not heavily used in our blend(s) I'll ship them back to the member that offered them.The more diverse selection of FOs we obtain; the better chances we have at making a new ocean blend that satisfies everyone. It should be both unique and characteristic of a true ocean scent while remaining clean and powerful enough for everyone's use whether it be as a candle, soap or spray.I'll provide more info as soon as I'm certain enough people want to participate. Without participants, FOs, and scent reviews we won't get very far in creating the new ocean blend. If this works out; I see no reason why we can't use the same process to create other forum-created scents. If you have any other questions let me know! I'm still trying to figure it all out myself, but it should be fun nonetheless! Edited May 4, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbenimble Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I have a few ocean type scents I could send you although I don't know they would be what you want because they have a floral base in them. Are there any that you are specifically looking for? I may have those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) I have a few ocean type scents I could send you although I don't know they would be what you want because they have a floral base in them. Are there any that you are specifically looking for? I may have those.They can be somewhat floral, but for realism they need to shy away from those characteristics a bit, as the ocean (to me) doesn't smell like flowers.That being said; I think florals are still needed in an ocean scent as they impart some of the salty clean aspects that are pervasive in most ocean scents. I'd probably use them to some degree just not as the overall base of the fragrance blend. I'm looking for any ocean FOs that people like for one reason or another, that are different from what other's have offered. Basically anything will work as long as it isn't extremely floral or powdery for lack of better word, although I guess it's a little subjective. You can send anything that reminds you of the ocean ( doesn't even have to necessarily be an ocean FO) as long as it imparts qualities of an ocean to you). The scents being put up for the blend so far are: SOS's Water, Sea Salt, Fishing Pier and Exotic Seabreeze. GlowWorm is offering Salty Sailor, Cactus and Sea Salt. But we still need a few more. Edited May 4, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbenimble Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 They can be somewhat floral, but for realism they need to shy away from those characteristics a bit, as the ocean (to me) doesn't smell like flowers.That being said; I think florals are still needed in an ocean scent as they impart some of the salty clean aspects that are pervasive in most ocean scents. I'd probably use them to some degree just not as the overall base of the fragrance blend. I'm looking for any ocean FOs that people like for one reason or another, that are different from what other's have offered. Basically anything will work as long as it isn't extremely floral or powdery for lack of better word, although I guess it's a little subjective. You can send anything that reminds you of the ocean ( doesn't even have to necessarily be an ocean FO) as long as it imparts qualities of an ocean to you). The scents being put up for the blend so far are: SOS's Water, Sea Salt, Fishing Pier and Exotic Seabreeze. GlowWorm is offering Salty Sailor, Cactus and Sea Salt. But we still need a few more.I have ocean from Peaks as well as Sea Kelp and Sea Spray from AH/RE. I may have a few other water scents I can send to but those three I know I have. This is very exciting. I would love us to come up with a true ocean scent that we could all use. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) I have ocean from Peaks as well as Sea Kelp and Sea Spray from AH/RE. I may have a few other water scents I can send to but those three I know I have. This is very exciting. I would love us to come up with a true ocean scent that we could all use. :-)Great! It will be a challenge but by evaluating each new blend and listing aspects of each version, rating them on a scale and reviewing each; we should be able to tweak the final formula until it satisfies everyone. I HOPE we can come up with a true ocean scent! If not, at the very least will have fun trying, and still have a product that is uniquely ours and better than other overly-idealized ocean FOs. Edited May 4, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I just found an interesting one:Wind Swept Shores This ocean-type fragrance captures the essence of a day at the seashore! A dry, musky base with notes of balsam and sandalwood supports notes of bergamot, grapefruit, and ozonic top notes, lending to the perception of clean, salty air.http://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/products/fragranceoils_wind-swept-shores.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) I just found an interesting one:Wind Swept ShoresThis ocean-type fragrance captures the essence of a day at the seashore! A dry, musky base with notes of balsam and sandalwood supports notes of bergamot, grapefruit, and ozonic top notes, lending to the perception of clean, salty air.http://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/products/fragranceoils_wind-swept-shores.htmlThanks Darbla. That does sound like a good one! Looks like I have another FO to add to the list to try. I've never ordered from Lonestar. I know it get's a great deal of possitive reviews here on the forum. Has anyone tried their Wind Swept Shores? Edited May 6, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Lone Star's "Bay Breeze" is described thusly:"Smells just like the popular Yankee Candle fragrance. The refreshing, clean smell of salty ocean air coming onto the coast."http://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/products/fragranceoils_bay-breeze-%28type%29.htmlI have no idea what the Yankee version smells like, but this at least didn't mention any florals. I have to make a Lone Star order for non-FO supplies, so I'm now pondering on these two oceany ones. Edited May 6, 2012 by Darbla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puma52 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Well, I blended the Salty Sea Air (ICS) .75% and the Sea Kelp (RE) .25 (didn't have the Tidal Wave like I thought I did, but will order some next order and try adding that to this mix) Love the scent!!! Made it a turquoise color....Very clean and refreshing... can't wait to try adding the Tidal Wave to it and see what happens then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Well, I blended the Salty Sea Air (ICS) .75% and the Sea Kelp (RE) .25 (didn't have the Tidal Wave like I thought I did, but will order some next order and try adding that to this mix) Love the scent!!! Made it a turquoise color....Very clean and refreshing... can't wait to try adding the Tidal Wave to it and see what happens then....Sounds like a good blend! I think I'm going to like blending the Cactus and Sea Salt FO with some stuff. Let us know if you plan on adding the Tidal Wave. Although, it sounds good already! Edited May 7, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puma52 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 You know....the Sea Kelp and Salty Sea Air blend is wonderful!!! BUT.....I believe the more scents you add to a candle recipe you already really like has the potential for creating the most awesome kick butt scent ever. I was thinking of trying (once I get some Tidal Wave) maybe .40 Salty Sea Air, .30 Sea Kelp, .15 Tidal Wave and .15 Cactus and Sea Salt. I swear...we have the most awesome Ocean scent in our midst and at our fingertips.... we just need to figure out what to use and how much.... :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rctfavr3 Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) You know....the Sea Kelp and Salty Sea Air blend is wonderful!!! BUT.....I believe the more scents you add to a candle recipe you already really like has the potential for creating the most awesome kick butt scent ever. I was thinking of trying (once I get some Tidal Wave) maybe .40 Salty Sea Air, .30 Sea Kelp, .15 Tidal Wave and .15 Cactus and Sea Salt. I swear...we have the most awesome Ocean scent in our midst and at our fingertips.... we just need to figure out what to use and how much.... :smiley2:I agree, but to me it's finding the right balance between realism and pleasantness. I find that some of the "best" ocean scents don't smell um, like an ocean. LOL. So whatever formula you come up with I would be happy to give it a shot as well. I plan on blending many FOs in the next couple of weeks! Edited May 8, 2012 by rctfavr3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowworm Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I agree, but to me it's finding the right balance between realism and pleasantness. I find that some of the "best" ocean scents don't smell um, like an ocean. LOL. So whatever formula you come up with I would be happy to give it a shot as well. I plan on blending many FOs in the next couple of weeks!Sent you a pm...cant wait to get this started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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