Scented Container Candles - Help?

[DFWV]

Hello everyone!

I've just discovered this site, but even with the minimal time I've been poking around here I've already found a wealth of information that will aid me in my candle crafting hobby. However, while I may have learned bunches from other people's questions, I feel it's time to ask a few of my own.

A few months ago I decided to give up my old hobby (of computer gaming) and pick up something more...substantial. I've always fancied making things for other people to enjoy and I really liked the idea of making candles. My wife and I would also browse the scented candle/oil aisles of stores quite often and enjoy the sights and scents so I figured this would be perfect.

I know I've read a lot of new people posting on here expecting to find a quick answer for all their needs, or people expecting to be able to make tons of profit off their products with minimal investment. I understand that this is not the case. I do not expect to make a single cent of profit. Hell, I'd be lucky just to break even. I do not plan on selling my crafts commercially nor am I ambitious enough to try to sell them online. I only hope to sell them to family and friends at a price that would cover the cost of material and anything extra would be donated to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. The simple joy of watching someone enjoy the quality of my product and knowing they're filling their homes with my scents is more than enough to please me.

About a week or so ago I ordered my initial start-up supplies from Lone Star Candle Supply and began preliminary testing after a few months of researching online and scouring a couple of candle-making books. I learned about different types of waxes, FO's, wicks, and containers.

After playing around with my sample order, I decided on going with two jars - a 10oz and a 16oz apothecary jar (see links below) - with a nice silver lid. For my wax, I chose IGI 4630 Harmony Blend. All the FO's I ordered (roughly 15) were 1oz sample sizes from Lone Star. Finally, I went with a 6" HTP-104 (which I think is part of my problem). I finished my first two candles last night following the general scented container guidelines (most resources give the same instructions with very little variance.) I had chose to use a Chocolate Mint FO for one container and a nice Amaretto for the other.

Those two candles turned out AMAZING, aesthetically speaking. The wax poured lovely and set just as beautifully. With a quick stamp of my logo on the sleek silver lid and a nice ribbon around the jar, they looked fantastic. I was also intensely pleases with the cold throw of the two candles and the scent accuracy (the chocolate mint smelled just like a York peppermint patty and the amaretto smelled just like maraschino cherries). My wife and I took them to work and our friends and co-workers LOVED them. We received so many requests to make candles for people.

I could have came home and immediately began churning out candles, but like any responsible craftsman I knew I had a LOT more testing to do before I would even consider handing over one of my creations. I came home today, made two more candles (with different jars/wicks since I had just ordered a few of everything I liked), and once I was done I decided to test the burning and hot throw of the chocomint and cherry candles.

This is where I started to get worried. I let both candles burn in separate rooms with the door closed (and yes, I realize this is INCREDIBLY stupid, since you ought NEVER leave a burning candle unattended) for roughly an hour to two hours each. They burned beautifully but I'm having some major issues with the scent throw. The cherry candle seemed to have a decent throw but the actual scent it provided was...off. It had a very "waxy" scent to it. You could detect a very small hint of cherry, but the waxy scent was too overpowering and ruined the candle in my opinion.

The chocolate mint candle didn't have the same waxy scent, but the odor it produced was not very accurate compared to the oil as well as it's cold throw. The hot throw also seemed weak for the size of the candle. I mentioned earlier that I used an HTP-104 wick for the two candles. I do not think this wick is big enough for my containers. Increasing the wick size would allow for a larger wax pool and could potentially increase the scent throw.

Now I'm having issues with the two new candles I made tonight. One was made with a fantastic cantaloupe FO that had awesome scent accuracy, and the other was a standard birthday cake scent that I really enjoyed. I made those two batches the same way I made the first two. However, these turned out different.

The cold throw of these two are VERY weak compared to the first two. I understand the different FOs can have varying strengths and the chocomint and amaretto were more "heavier" scents, but the cake scent also seemed to be a heavy one as well. I made sure to use the same measurements (see below) of oil to wax as I did for the others. Still, these two produce a very weak cold throw.

There is something I'm really curious about, though. With each of the last two candles, I had extra scented wax left over. It wasn't much, but I didn't want to waste it. Unfortunately, I didn't have any separate containers available, so I lined a bowl with wax paper and poured the extra wax into it. Here's where things got really interesting.

First, some of the extra wax from the cake batch leaked THROUGH the wax paper. I had no idea this could happen. Second, it seems every time I use this method of saving extra wax, the oil seems to separate from the wax and pool under/around the cool wax. I understand the wax is like a sponge and once it's reached its maximum capacity of FO that the extra oil will seep out/off. However what confuses me is that if I'm overloading the wax with the FO, why is it not producing the same action inside the jars? The wax in the jars are beautiful - it sticks to the glass wonderfully and I get virtually no air bubbles thanks to taking my time and making sure I prep and pour correctly.

It's only when I pour the wax into the wax-paper bowl that I have this issue. To see if the extra wax would produce the same effect inside a jar, I re-melted the extra wax and poured it into little (I believe they're 3oz) jars that I had lying around. I went ahead and used some spare wicks of appropriate size just to test them later. I'm currently waiting for them to cool to see if I can reproduce the "milking" effect.

So as of right now, those are my problems - a "waxy" scented amaretto, a poor hot throw on my chocomint as well as a poor burn scent accuracy (my wife likens the scent to an oil lamp burning), a birthday cake and cantaloupe candle with very faint cold throw, and the mysterious FO/wax separation.

Now, instead of just freaking out and running around screaming "OMG WAT DO?!" I have hypothesized some possible causes.

The waxy scent on the amaretto could be due to a possible error that resulted in a repour when I made that candle. The chocomint's poor hot throw is probably due to a wick issue in which I can correct by using a larger wick. As far as it's scent accuracy it's possible that it's just a sub-par quality FO from Lone Star (this could also be the issue with the amaretto). I'm honestly stumped as far as the cold throw issue of the last two go since I made them the exact same way I did the first two that had awesome cold throw. As far as the wax/oil separation, I honestly have no friggin' clue as to why it did that, but I'm willing to bet that it has some big scientific reason due to the way the wax paper interacts with the product. Seriously though, no idea.

So there's my issue. Before I end this monster of a post, I'll lay out my general process when I make my candles.

First, I pre-warm my containers in my oven. Nothing to hot, usually set around 150' degrees. While those warm, I cut wax off my block and measure it out on a digital kitchen scale (11lb capacity). So far I have worked in half pound and 1lb increments. Most research I've done supports the idea that I should use 1oz of FO per 1lb of wax for this wax type, so that's what I use. Since the bottles I have are 1oz sample sizes, I'll use half a bottle for half a pound and a whole bottle for a full pound of wax. Also, Lone Star estimates that one pound of wax will equate to roughly 20oz of wax by volume (see below). I heat the wax in my pouring pot with a double boiling process. Once my wax fully melts and reaches a desirably temperature (usually around 175-190 degrees), I add my dye block shavings. Once I achieve a satisfactory color, I add my FO and stir for a minute or so to ensure the oil has time to mix. Immediately after stirring, I pour the wax from my pouring pot into a wicked container (which I removed safely from the over and applied a wick tab to with a hot glue gun). Once I fill it up, I set up the wick proper with my wick bar and allow the product to cool. After the product has cooled, I apply a safety sticker to the bottom and then pop on a cap (if any). That's my whole process from start to finish, minus cleanup.

Edited May 19, 2011 by DFWV

[DFWV]

(continued from above)

I mentioned the whole 1oz of oil per 1lb of wax producing 20oz of scented wax there, but I have a huge question. All the resources suggest this (or anywhere from 0.5 to 1.5x that amount), but is that ounces by WEIGHT or ounces by VOLUME? All of my 1oz sample FOs are sold to be by WEIGHT. Each oil has a different...mass, I think is the correct term(?), so they sell the oils by weight instead of by volume. If I'm supposed to measure out 1 ounce of oil by volume, then I've seriously been screwing up. However, I'm pretty confident that it's by weight since most place flat out say "use one bottle per pound of wax."

So there you have it - my adventures in the candle making craft. I apologize for the lengthy post, but I realize the more I go into detail, the more detailed feedback I can get. Any and all help would be appreciate.

Just please understand that I am fully aware that candle craft is like ANY hobby or skill - it takes time, patience, resources, and lots and lots of practice to master. I may be limited on my resources (money is tight), but my heart is definitely in it. I refuse to put my name on anything that I wouldn't want to use myself. I won't settle for anything less than what I'm capable of and I know with my ambition and creativity I can make something that could really brighten a person's day.

Thank you very much for taking time out of your day to read my post and I look forward to any and all information that you have to provide. I'll be sure to check back here often and continue my research.

Edited May 19, 2011 by DFWV

[rjdaines]

The only thing I can answer is that measurements are done by weight, I weigh out my FO. Figuring out percentages of ounces confuses me so I convert everything to grams. I'll leave it to others to answer your other questions as I have not worked with that wax. I use HTP wicks in some of my soy container candles and have no problems with container 3 inches and under.

[DFWV]

I just stumbled upon the FAQ/Newbie guide earlier and it mentioned the same thing - to measure by weight and not volume. This means I've been doing it correctly. That's good news.

And update with the re-melted extra wax - the FO has pooled in the bottom of the container of solid wax. This did not happen with the initial pours into the 10oz containers. On one hand that tells me I over saturated the wax with FO, but if that was the case why didn't the large containers have the same issue? I'm positive I let the FO blend long enough. Once solution could be that the wax DID fully saturate before the pour and when I poured, the excess oil floated on top, so most of the container got saturated wax and very little/no extra oil, and when I poured all the extra wax out of the pot all that remained was a bit of wax with extra oil.

[cedar_lea]

the 1oz to 1lb is the easy way to think about it. it's acually 6% FO. It gets complicated when you're doing the math out in percentages sometimes because you have to remember it's 6% of the total not 6% of the wax you put in the container.

As for fragrance it changes whenever it interacts with anything, fragrance in wax isn't the same as fragrance on skin or fragrace in lotion. It's just the nature of the beast, so likely you're just noting the changes and not liking it quite as much as the scent strait from the bottle. Likely a different company's FO would perform different and you'll like it more or less. So trying to get the scent to be exactly the same as the bottle is probobly just not going to happen. The question is really how is it burning? If it's burning like it should try a different fragrance, if not play with the wick & the scent might change some.

I'm a complete noob so bare that in mind. Stella's written a ton of great posts on wick testing so that might be a good place to look for more info.

[pixie]

The way to measure your FO's and wax is by weight not by volume. I have used the HTP wicks with good results as they are one of my favorite wicks but I have never tried the wax you use (although I've heard and read good things about it) so I cant be much assistance as far as that goes.

One thing I will say, please try to figure out and remedy the problem of the FO leaking out of the wax as I've had that happen to me before and it caught fire . It really shook me up and I would hate for you to have to experience that same thing I did. You could try reducing the FO or it is possible that the FO and wax are just not compatible. Maybe try using a different FO?

Im sorry I cant be of more help. I've been making candles now for two years but I still consider myself a newbie. There are people here with tons of experience and maybe they will chime in with some encouraging words.

[Pam W]

I've been using 4630 for a short time & have tested a dozen different scents and with all of them, I didn't need more than 5% for a good HT. Some produced a good HT just a few hrs after setting up while others kicked in a little better after a couple of day's cure time. I use primarily Eco wicks but have tried HTPs & Zinc, both produced more soot than I was comfortable with.

I heat this wax to 180*, add FO, stir well and pour between 170-180*.

[HorseScentS]

I'm new to candle making, too, but my understanding is that you add 1 oz (or more), by weight, of FO to 16 oz, by weight, of melted wax. The ideal temp to add the FO is supposedly 180 degrees exactly. & you must stir thoroughly & strongly with a wire whisk for at least 2 full minutes to let the FO bond with the wax. Preheating the FO in a Pyrex measuring cup helps.

I haven't seen anyone raving about Lone Star FOs here, they mostly like Nature's Garden & Candle Science & a few others. There's a good Fragrance Section to read.

[snb7485]

I'm new to candle making, too, but my understanding is that you add 1 oz (or more), by weight, of FO to 16 oz, by weight, of melted wax. The ideal temp to add the FO is supposedly 180 degrees exactly. & you must stir thoroughly & strongly with a wire whisk for at least 2 full minutes to let the FO bond with the wax. Preheating the FO in a Pyrex measuring cup helps.

I haven't seen anyone raving about Lone Star FOs here, they mostly like Nature's Garden & Candle Science & a few others. There's a good Fragrance Section to read.

Okay this is soo off subject, but something just dawned on me, does melted wax have the same weight as solid wax? I weight out 16 ounces of solid wax to make my candles. When I ready your post about 16 oz of melted wax, I wondered was it the same?

P.S I'm not sure about lonestar's FO, but someone else I know said they were not too good. I personally have never used them. Candle Science has nice oils. A lot of people also really, really like Peaks FO, but I have yet to try them. They are next on my list.

[Twoscentsworth]

Weight and volume measurements are not interchangeable. While there are 16 ounces in a pound by weight, 16 fluid ounces of a liquid does not necessarily weigh one pound...BUT the difference is not usually that much. One lb of soy wax melts to about 18 oz and one lb of paraffin to about 20 oz.

I think it is the fragrance oil that is the problem.

[HorseScentS]

Okay this is soo off subject, but something just dawned on me, does melted wax have the same weight as solid wax? I weight out 16 ounces of solid wax to make my candles. When I ready your post about 16 oz of melted wax, I wondered was it the same?

P.S I'm not sure about lonestar's FO, but someone else I know said they were not too good. I personally have never used them. Candle Science has nice oils. A lot of people also really, really like Peaks FO, but I have yet to try them. They are next on my list.

I wondered the same thing so I'm glad Twoscentsworth answered.

I weigh out 5 lbs, or more, of unmelted wax to put into my Presto pot for melting, & after it's melted I set my melt pot on a digital scale & ladle exactly 16 oz of melted wax into it, so I know exactly how much wax I'm adding my FO to. Then I set it on my electric skillet so I can keep the temp up while I add the UV protectant & adjust the color, then I check the temp to make sure it's where I want it before adding the preheated FO. As soon as I add the FO, I remove the melt pot from the heat & stir for 2 full minutes. Then let it sit while waiting for the pour temp, which was 150 last time. But if somebody wants to add FO at 180 & also pour at 180, they would have to keep the melt pot on the heat while stirring FO because the temp drops alot. I'm not a fan of pouring at 180 because the wax shrinks too much as it cools, but I guess cooling your jars on heating pads could help prevent the shrinkage.

Edited May 19, 2011 by HorsescentS

[ChrisR]

Okay this is soo off subject, but something just dawned on me, does melted wax have the same weight as solid wax? I weight out 16 ounces of solid wax to make my candles. When I ready your post about 16 oz of melted wax, I wondered was it the same?

A lb. is a lb. whether solid or liquid!!

[David Fields]

I've restarted this msg several times. So, here goes my two-cents worth. First, we have been pouring candles for 15 years and have a very successful business. I seriously doubt that many chandlers produce their products the same way. We actually use weight and volume. So, don't get hung up over anything you see in the posts. What works for one person may not work for you - at all, and may totally confuse you. Just test, test, test, until you get a candle you like. FO's are VERY different and behave differently. A great candle is a perfect blend of wax, wick, FO and container. Try to make mistakes to gain understanding of the delicate relationship between all of the components in a candle. Try all of the wicks to see which ones you like. Keep notes of your trials, and again, test, test, test. Oh, and don't sweat the small stuff like wet spots and such. They don't matter. HTH

[DFWV]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, sans David whose post was a little off-putting.

I figured that the whole FO ratio was by weight, and I believe I posted shortly after my first post that I had confirmed that. As far as the quality of the FO's, I'm considering ordering similar scents from Peak and seeing how those act. I'm also considering ordering a soy wax instead of what I'm using now. I'm not keen on the idea of using soy, but if I can get better results out of that, there's no sense in NOT using it

All I'm focusing on right now is finding that wax, FO, and wick combination that works (and believe it or not, David, not all newbies are totally oblivious to common sense concepts such as this).

[Camay]

How on Earth did you find David's post off-putting? I thought it was a very practical and truthful. There is no one answer to many questions. You just have to test and find what works for you.

And it sounds like you are doing just what he said.

I think you will be happy with FOs from Peak.

[DFWV]

Eh, I can't really explain why it sounded tactless without seeming like a giant ass myself, so we'll just leave it at "to each his own."

I'm pretty excited about the Peak oils. I was a little worried at first because they're about %25 more costly than what I've been getting, but I see they have a nice sampler pack of 10 oils for around $20, which is right on budget. I'm going to try them in my paraffin since I still have roughly 6-7lbs left. I'll also be wicking up a few sizes. I am definitely not pleased with the melt pool of the HTP104s that I'm using. I really want to avoid double/triple wicking just for aesthetic reasons, so I'm going to try a larger wick in these containers.

Also, thanks a ton to whoever mentioned the idea of curing earlier. I had read some mixed reviews on the concept, but the original two candles seem to have increased in hot throw since I've just let them sit for awhile longer. The chocolate mint - while not exactly what I was hoping for - is pleasant (despite the wick being WAY too small), and the amaretto is putting out more scent (though the scent itself isn't very good - won't be ordering that one again).

[Camay]

Sign up for their newsletter at Peak. They often have coupons.

[Faerywren]

Soy is a fickle mistress. Just giving you the heads up. Start reading in the "vegetable wax" threads so you know what frustration awaits you. Good luck!

[DFWV]

Cam - Awesome! That's definitely some helpful information!

Fae - Haha, yeah. I've been doing some reading on it already. Like I said, I'm not keen on using it. I've really been enjoying working with this IGI 4630, and since I have some left I'll give it a shot with the new oils.

[coconut]

DFVW, please don't take offense to this. When I first joined this forum, newbies always got spanked for asking a lot of questions without searching for the answers first on the forum. In comparison to that, David's post was pretty mild. I won't spank you because the search isn't working anyway since the upgrade. What I think David is saying is that you are going to get lots of advice, some good, some bad, and the best advice is from the most experienced chandlers. Sometimes nobody will have your answer and only trial and error will help you. My own two cents worth is this: there are a number of very good suppliers and Lonestar is a good supplier. I use a number of their FO's. But like all suppliers, some FO's are not very good and that may be what you have in those scents. Peak has mostly terrific, albeit more expensive FO, but a few are not very good either. Holly Berry & Ivy is so bad it makes you gag. Until the search gets fixed, try searching on Google and put in something like "best scents Peak" or "best scents Lonestar" and you will most likely get a list of posts from this forum. If everyone says Hansel & Gretel's House from Candlescience is great and throws well, it probably does. I'm trying to use more Candlescience FOs because they will ship USPS and that's great if I only need small quantities, and the prices are better. They also have their own rating system for the strength of the FO and that is good. It all depends on where you live as shipping costs so much. Many people swear by Nature's Garden and others by BitterCreek.

If you aren't interested in doing soy, then don't. It is not any easier. 4630 is great wax, you may need to wick down, and 1oz per lb. is fine for most oils. I'm having good luck with HTP wicks, LX wicks, and Premier wicks.

I would not use the wax paper trick at all as the wax on the paper is probably melting and adding an unknown element to your mix. I use clean coffee cans with lids to save my leftover wax.

Hope there are no hard feelings and best of luck with your new hobby. Coconut

[Georgia]

My first thought was you picked difficult jars to start with. I found with the apothecary jars that I had to double wick to make them perform as I wanted.

A pound liquid weighs the same as a pound solid.

6% fragrance is technically .6 oz FO to .94 lb wax. It won't make a lick of difference if you use 1 oz FO to 1 lb wax.

What are you stirring the FO with? I use a restaurant size slotted spoon - long handle, good stirring without incorporating too much air and easy clean up with a heat gun and paper towel. Heavier oils may not incorporate at 6% or may need a lot more stirring.

You may need less than 6% FO with some oils. You may need more with others. And different supplies oils will react differently. And will react differently with different waxes. You have to be around 30 days (I think) to access the classified section, but you can try different oils from different suppliers at (hopefully) less cost.

Along with heating temps you need to pay attention to pouring temps. I theorize that you had leftover wax because it was poured cooler than the first candles. Cooler equals more density.

Definitely keep notes. Keep playing. Keep learning. My two scents - don't switch to soy. :smiley2:

[DFWV]

Yeah, these jars are...interesting to work with. I really enjoy the size and shape, though. I'm playing around with some double wicking methods, as well as using larger, single wicks. Going to see what works best for me.