Are candle lids needed?

[snb7485]

Hello everybody! I'm new to candle making and I have a ton of questions. Luckily I found this site! The only question that I can't find the answer to is do you really need candle lids? I know that they look good, but do they help to keep in the smell? I am currently using IGI 6006 and I have had NO LUCK with it . No hot throw, no cold throw. I was wondering if maybe I needed to put a lid on it and maybe that would help

[jackbenimble]

I'm by no means an expert but I will say that I have read that a lid does help keep the candle scent in but it will not help with the HT or CT. You don't have to have a lid but if you do the candle can virtual never lose it's scent because it can't escape. If I'm wrong please correct me but I think most of that is partially true. HTH and good luck with your candles!

[rjdaines]

IGI 6006 seems to have good reviews and ratings (at least at Peaks). I think you are going to be asked a lot more questions in order to try to find an answer to the lack of HT. Gather your info now, like container and size, amount of fragrance used, wicking and melt pool size. How does the burn look, strong flame, weak flame, mushrooming?

[snb7485]

Well the container that I used was the libbey interlude votive which is 4.25 ounces. I used the maximum fragrance which was listed at 1 2/3 ounce per pound of wax, and I used an Eco 1 3" wick. I guess the melt pool is good.... I mean I let it burn until the entire top was melted. In terms of the burn look it's a pretty strong flame, and actually I noticed that it's kinda high. Almost like it's coming out of the glass, even though I trimmed it pretty good. I'm not sure what mushrooming is :rolleyes2 (I'm still a newbie, have mercy on me :smiley2:)

Edited May 13, 2011 by snb7485

[Ravens]

Could you post some pictures? That might help us all. Don't despair, a year later I believe my candles are still a big flop; I'm not satisfied with them at all. I want them to throw as strong as my tarts, but thus far..... zip, nada, zilch, lol

[LadyinCali]

I feel better knowing I'm not the only one having such a hard time getting a decent HT. I started making tarts a year ago, but now for a change I'm trying my hand at candles and having no luck with getting a strong HT. Sometimes I feel like I want to pull my hair out! lol I have tried the IGI 6006 and had no luck at all with HT using a variety of different wicks - so I gave up on that wax. Things MAY be looking up a bit with my latest combo of wax/wick.

Last week I made a few candles using 4630 wax in 4oz jelly jars using HTP wicks - burned one tonight for the first time, and I have to say, its pretty good. The HTP 62 seems perfect for that size container and I like the way the HTP wicks burn - the flame stays nice during the whole burn without getting too big. I like the Eco wicks, but the flames on those are so big that they look like a mini torch. The HT on this was decent, but I would like it to be stronger.

Last week I also made some candles in 8 oz square mason jars. Just for the fun of it, I mixed 50/50 464/4794, used an Eco 10 wick, 8% fragrance load using Peaks Orange Blossom and my whole house smelled wonderful. I know the 4794 isn't a container wax, but the combo of that with the 464 was amazing. I may test other wicks with that wax combo, but like the saying goes,"If it isn't broke, don't fix it." The Eco wicks just seem to have such a crazy flame - no matter what size I use, if I don't keep it trimmed, it goes wild. Maybe I'll try an HTP wick with that combo and see what happens. Maybe ONE day I will finally make the perfect candle! lol

[WillowBoo]

It's always best to lid a candle and contain a tart for best cold throw. It doesn't really affect the HT, but CT is necessary for a good sell.

[Candybee]

A lid will help retain some of the cold throw but that may vary from one type wax to another. If you compare both an unlidded and lidded candle together then you may notice a difference in the scent throw. I use palm and it is one wax that the surface wax (outer layer) may lose its cold throw over time so a lid helps retain it.

Lids won't have any effect on the hot throw. The fragrance is blended into the wax so as it burns it releases the scent in the melt pool.

If you want to eventually sell your candles its best to have some sort of lid or covering on your candle. I often never put a lid back on a candle once I start using it. But I'd never sell a candle without a lid to a customer.

[snb7485]

http://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/products/candlecontainers_libbey-interlude-jar-4.25oz.html This is the link for the candle containers that I am using. I'm not sure if the container could be an issue? I'm so lost. The 6006 got such good reviews and I'm just wondering what I could be doing wrong.

[Candybee]

I have a feeling that if you try another wick you will have better luck. Some have success with the ecos while others not so much. I'd try CDs, zincs, or CDNs for 6006. You can also do a search or start a specific thread to ask 6006 users what wicks they use.

Another problem may be the % of FO or the quality of the oil. Where do you get your FOs? The standard amount of fragrance load most candlemakers use is 1 oz pp or 6%. Just because the wax may hold a higher load does not equate to a stronger hot throw. Thats a mistake a lot of newbies make. You also need the right wick to burn in your candle.

For starting out I would back off the high FO load and start with 1 oz pp wax. Some oils may need more but MOST do not. If you have the right wick and a good quality FO thats all you need.

How long are you curing the candles? For my parasoy blend I find most FOs take 48 hours to cure in the candle while some can take up to a week or longer. Then you will have some oils that have great throw within 24 hours. Its all in the timing of the cure.

BTW you can get lids for those jars.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Candybee

[HorseScentS]

I have a feeling that if you try another wick you will have better luck. Some have success with the ecos while others not so much. I'd try CDs, zincs, or CDNs for 6006. You can also do a search or start a specific thread to ask 6006 users what wicks they use.

Another problem may be the % of FO or the quality of the oil. Where do you get your FOs? The standard amount of fragrance load most candlemakers use is 1 oz pp or 6%. Just because the wax may hold a higher load does not equate to a stronger hot throw. Thats a mistake a lot of newbies make. You also need the right wick to burn in your candle.

For starting out I would back off the high FO load and start with 1 oz pp wax. Some oils may need more but MOST do not. If you have the right wick and a good quality FO thats all you need.

How long are you curing the candles? For my parasoy blend I find most FOs take 48 hours to cure in the candle while some can take up to a week or longer. Then you will have some oils that have great throw within 24 hours. Its all in the timing of the cure.

BTW you can get lids for those jars.

Geez, this is confusing. lol On my first batch of 21 candles, I used 1 oz of CandleScience FO p.p. of 6006 wax, & got good CT but no HT, even when I set the candles on a candle warmer, no HT. I probably didn't stir for the full 2 minutes & I stirred too gently. (I added the FO at 195 to 200 degrees, & I used the 2-1/2 " wide, regular mouth, 8 oz jj's & size 51 zinc wicks, & poured about 175.) But the 3 candles I made with 1.50 oz of FO p.p. of 6006 still had no HT when burned, but had an okay HT on the candle warmer.

But this recent batch I made, after consulting a local chandler who uses 6006 & who always uses 2 oz of FO p.p. of wax, so I used 2 oz of CandleScience FO p.p. of 6006 wax, added the FO at 215 degrees, stirred for at least 2 or 3 minutes while watching a clock with a sweep-second hand, poured at 150, & I got a very good HT so that one medium tureen jar, 4" wide, with a size 62 zinc wick, scents a 650 square-foot room.

[Pam W]

......so I used 2 oz of CandleScience FO p.p. of 6006 wax, added the FO at 215 degrees, stirred for at least 2 or 3 minutes while watching a clock with a sweep-second hand, poured at 150, & I got a very good HT so that one medium tureen jar, 4" wide, with a size 62 zinc wick, scents a 650 square-foot room.

I refuse to buy an FO that requires 2 oz pp -

[HorseScentS]

I refuse to buy an FO that requires 2 oz pp -

Yes, I keep reading that. lol & that's why I started out using only 1 oz p.p. But so far, for me the results are: More FO = More HT, so I don't understand...sigh...

[HorseScentS]

Hello everybody! I'm new to candle making and I have a ton of questions. Luckily I found this site! The only question that I can't find the answer to is do you really need candle lids? I know that they look good, but do they help to keep in the smell? I am currently using IGI 6006 and I have had NO LUCK with it . No hot throw, no cold throw. I was wondering if maybe I needed to put a lid on it and maybe that would help

In candle shops, I've seen candles in status jars & heart jars & oval bowls, without lids, that were wrapped tightly in cello bags with an elastic bow holding the top shut, & they don't let the scent escape. If you sniff near the opening of the closed bag, you can just barely smell the candle. That can save money on lids & shipping if you put out some small lidded jars of testers to sniff.

[snb7485]

Geez, this is confusing. lol On my first batch of 21 candles, I used 1 oz of CandleScience FO p.p. of 6006 wax..."

I too am using candle science FO! I know it is of good quality just from searching this site, so I doubt if it is the oil. I was tempted to add more oil also, but I was worried about the sooting issue. Have you experienced that?

[Maggie]

Something that I used to do when I poured in "lidless" jars.

I bought frosted template plastic sheets and used a circle cutter to make it the same size as the top of the jar. Punched a hole in it and put it down over the wick. Held in the scent well but yet people COULD smell it through the little hole.

I had seen this done in a candle shop in Delaware and I stold the idea...LOL.

[HorseScentS]

Geez, this is confusing. lol On my first batch of 21 candles, I used 1 oz of CandleScience FO p.p. of 6006 wax..."

I too am using candle science FO! I know it is of good quality just from searching this site, so I doubt if it is the oil. I was tempted to add more oil also, but I was worried about the sooting issue. Have you experienced that?

No, there's no soot at all, they're burning very clean. & no mushrooms or other wick problems like I got with 1 oz p.p. & 1.50 oz p.p. I don't believe it's the FO load that causes soot. Any candle will soot if burned in a draft, or maybe from the wrong type or size of wick, or lack of wick trimming.

I measured the tureen & it's 3-3/4" wide. I think it's the 8 or 9 oz tureen. The 62 zinc wick leaves wax hangup on the sides, but when it burns down to just 1/2" to 1/4" of wax left in the bottom of the jar, it gradually cleans the sides. These are not the high wick assemblies that self-extinguish when there's still 1/2" of wax in the bottom of the jar. In this particular type of jar, with these wicks, the jar stays cool, the bottom gets mildly warm, & the neck where the screw threads are gets very warm or even a little bit hot, but not too uncomfortable to touch.

[HorseScentS]

Something that I used to do when I poured in "lidless" jars.

I bought frosted template plastic sheets and used a circle cutter to make it the same size as the top of the jar. Punched a hole in it and put it down over the wick. Held in the scent well but yet people COULD smell it through the little hole.

I had seen this done in a candle shop in Delaware and I stold the idea...LOL.

That's such a cool idea if you can find the right size circle cutter. I've only seen them 2" diameter & smaller. Are the template sheets at Hobby Lobby?

[HorseScentS]

Geez, this is confusing. lol On my first batch of 21 candles, I used 1 oz of CandleScience FO p.p. of 6006 wax..."

I too am using candle science FO! I know it is of good quality just from searching this site, so I doubt if it is the oil. I was tempted to add more oil also, but I was worried about the sooting issue. Have you experienced that?

Update: Now that my CS Grapefruit & Mangosteen candle has cleaned the wax off the sides of the jar & there's 1/2" melt pool of wax in the bottom of the jar, the flame is dancing around, sometimes shooting up thin & high, & smoking; so next time I make this same container, wick, & wax, I'll cut down the FO to 1-2/3 oz p.p., which is the max for 6006. I'm on my 4th burn session of TC Cafe Latte & CS English Garden & the HT is good, but now when I light the cooled candles the flame is dancing around & sometimes shoots high & thin & smokes; this goes on for 30 to 45 minutes, then it settles down. So, now I'm happy I'm at least getting a good HT in 2006, so I'll try less FO on those next time too.

[snb7485]

Update: Now that my CS Grapefruit & Mangosteen candle has cleaned the wax off the sides of the jar & there's 1/2" melt pool of wax in the bottom of the jar, the flame is dancing around, sometimes shooting up thin & high, & smoking; so next time I make this same container, wick, & wax, I'll cut down the FO to 1-2/3 oz p.p., which is the max for 6006. I'm on my 4th burn session of TC Cafe Latte & CS English Garden & the HT is good, but now when I light the cooled candles the flame is dancing around & sometimes shoots high & thin & smokes; this goes on for 30 to 45 minutes, then it settles down. So, now I'm happy I'm at least getting a good HT in 2006, so I'll try less FO on those next time too.

You should! I 'm actually burning a candle that I made with 1 2/3 FO with a three day cure and it actually has a decent hot throw. This oil however is from elements. I also made a batch yesterday the way you said it with 2 ounces, and I poured it at 215 degrees. It started to smoke! I was so worried that the oil burned off!! I'm going to wait to burn it and see. As for right now, the cold throw is mild. But at least it's present!!! I'm starting to notice that it's all about trial and error

[HorseScentS]

You should! I 'm actually burning a candle that I made with 1 2/3 FO with a three day cure and it actually has a decent hot throw. This oil however is from elements. I also made a batch yesterday the way you said it with 2 ounces, and I poured it at 215 degrees. It started to smoke! I was so worried that the oil burned off!! I'm going to wait to burn it and see. As for right now, the cold throw is mild. But at least it's present!!! I'm starting to notice that it's all about trial and error

So when you added the Elements FO to the wax at 215 it started to smoke? I didn't have that problem at all, but I heated my CS & TC FOs in a small Pyrex measuring cup to about 160 or 170 before I added it, & I had a loose piece of foil over the top, & set it in my oven next to the jars I was heating @ 170, which is my lowest oven setting. Maybe what you saw was steam?

I've read the posts about the FO evaporating if you add it at too high a temp or stir too vigorously or wait too long to pour, but the chandler said, No, that's not a problem, & that some heavier FOs simply will not bond with the 6006 wax unless you add at a higher temp. She believes you have to add most FOs at 200, & some heavier ones at 215, & the heaviest at 250, which everyone says is not safe & I'm not encouraging anyone else to do that.

But she only heats the wax to 200 in her Presto, & then if she wants it hotter she heats it hotter right in her melt pot while constantly monitoring the temp. I know that others will disagree about the need to add FOs at higher temps. I heated my wax to 215 by setting my melt pot on my dry electric skillet at 250, while constantly monitoring the temp, & I stirred every minute or two. If somebody walks away from their melt pot & gets distracted & lets it overheat to about 400, it will burst into flames, so it has to be very closely monitored.

Also I stirred for about 3 or 4 minutes & stirred strongly, even vigorously, not the gentle stirring you see in the videos, & it really worked much better for me.

All I know is I couldn't get a HT with 6006 at first, but now I can, so it's either adding the FO at higher temps, long & vigorous stirring, or both...or the high FO load. lol I can't wait to try Comfort Blend! lol

But re: this thing of using more than 1 oz p.p. being too expensive, I don't understand that because for every dollar you spend on FO, you're going to charge your customers at least 2 dollars, so you get the money back plus a profit when you're ready to sell. & if using a higher % of FO does not = a stronger HT, why do corporations spend $$$ developing waxes that hold a higher % FO load? & why do parrafin chandlers bother adding Vybar to their wax so it can hold a higher % FO load? & since it's the melt pool that throws the scent, & not the wick or the flame, how can a higher FO load "stop the wick from throwing the scent" if it's not the wick that throws the scent? sigh...smh...

Edited May 15, 2011 by HorsescentS

[HorseScentS]

You should! I 'm actually burning a candle that I made with 1 2/3 FO with a three day cure and it actually has a decent hot throw. This oil however is from elements. I also made a batch yesterday the way you said it with 2 ounces, and I poured it at 215 degrees. It started to smoke! I was so worried that the oil burned off!! I'm going to wait to burn it and see. As for right now, the cold throw is mild. But at least it's present!!! I'm starting to notice that it's all about trial and error

Here's an article with the test result about the best temp to add FO:

Wax Temperature for Best Fragrance Throw - 180 Degrees

http://candleandsoap.about.com/b/2010/12/06/mailbag-monday-isnt-180-degrees-too-hot-for-candle-fragrances.htm

http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/tipsandtechniques/qt/qtfotemp.htm

I don't know if this temperature in the linked works for the heavier oils or not. I think I had no HT on my first candles from not stirring strongly enough for two full minutes with my whisk.