First candles done...now what?

[Daisymae]

Okay...I made my first container candles with J223 in Love Spell. They look great, but now what? I am JUST starting out and want to try to make a small business out of it, but I have NO idea how to market them. Do I just start at work??? And do I throw them in people's faces...lol...and say "Do you wanna buy my candle?" Just not sure about how to go about it...

And then there is testing...dumb question I am sure, but is it really necessary? How do I test? I only have one wick as of now HTP 73 in a 6oz. Tureen Jar. What would I be looking for as far as burning the candle? What is considered good? And how long do I wait to test the candle? I JUST made them last night around 6ish.

Thanks for any help...I hope my questions aren't too silly

Also...I am not too keen on Love Spell (not my cup of tea)...do people like this scent?

[LeahRB]

Testing is very necessary.. You have to make sure you have a safe product that burns properly. You want to make sure you have a good burn all the way down, without it getting too hot.

If you have like a 3" diameter container, it should take like the 3 hrs to get a full melt pool. Sometimes you will not achieve a full melt pool until the 2nd or 3rd burn and that is ok. You may have to go through a few wicks until you find one that works and different wicks may be required for different scents. It is all a matter of testing.

Hope I have made some sense. Wecome to the addiction and have fun.:smiley2:

Edited February 6, 2011 by LeahRB

[Daisymae]

How do I know if it is a full melt pool?

[Wessex]

Not to be mean, but I would suggest you do LOTS of research on this board and other places before you even attampt to sell a candle. It appears to me you don't really have any of the required knowledge and skills to make a sellable candle. If you don't know what a full melt pool is, how can you even begin to test? I am just being realistic here, not trying to be a killjoy. It took me many cases worth of wax and several hundred candles tested before I was confident in my candles. It takes some people years. If you do not do the testing (i.e. due diligence) and something goes wrong with a candle, not only do you look bad, but you have opened yourself up to a lawsuit.

Again, not trying to be an ass, but you MUST research and test, test, test, before even considering selling a candle. It is very time consuming and expensive. Please take this advise as constructive, not mean.

And please utilize the search feature on this site before asking questions. Most things have been answered over the years and are available here.

Cheers,

Steve

BTW - the tureen jars is one of the more difficult jars to wick, IMO. You might want to start with something easier.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Wessex

[Pam W]

:tiptoe:

[LeahRB]

I agree, research this board and you will find a wealth of knowledge.. And plan on testing, testing, and more testing.

[Daisymae]

That is why I am asking questions. Although I have been researching, researching, researching - sometimes it is easiest to ask a question and have it answered. I look at this site every day.

I am not ready for a large market...I know that. But, I am perfectly confident in selling to some close friends and co-workers. With no threat of a lawsuit..lol!

Weren't you all eager in the beginning, too? :smiley2:

[Wessex]

That is why I am asking questions. Although I have been researching, researching, researching - sometimes it is easiest to ask a question and have it answered. I look at this site every day.

I am not ready for a large market...I know that. But, I am perfectly confident in selling to some close friends and co-workers. With no threat of a lawsuit..lol!

Weren't you all eager in the beginning, too? :smiley2:

OK, maybe no lawsuit, but how bad will you feel if your friends waste money on a crappy candle, or if they get burned, or if their house burns down? BTW, the insurance company will sue, not the person.

As far as easier to ask a question...that's not going to make it very easy for you as most people will just not answer. There is a wealth of good knowledge in the archive, and many, many helpful people here. But you have to be willing to put in your time and sweat. I tend to ignore questions that are easily answered by researching. Again, not being crappy with you, just realistic. I am trying to help you, but I am not going to spend my time coaching people who are not willing to do the basic research.

HTH,

Steve

[Daisymae]

Well, Steve, I have been looking for the answer to my melt pool question and cannot find an answer. All I want to know is, how big should your melt pool be? Do you just measure the depth or the width or both? And how do you know when your melt pool is complete?

Not taking offense to your answers, although I was a bit taken aback at first, but I welcome the knowledge. You and all the others know way more than me.

And yes, I would feel bad if I burned someone's house down :/

[Daisymae]

I just found this website, when I did a google search for melt pool and it answered a lot of my questions. I will post for anyone who would like to see it.

http://www.motorcitycandleworks.com/tips/

I know know what a full melt pool is...

[cedar_lea]

Step 1: burn your candle. Actually watch it and see if it has any issues. In fact burn 2 or 3 for consistancy. Remember you like candles and this is fun!

Once you've done that you should know where to go from there. I don't think that testing needs to be a huge production, but you do need to know what issues your candles may and may not have. You will likely decide that your wicking is imperfect (because what are the chances you got it right the very first time?) and should be able to do research to figure out how to correct your issues.

Repeat the process when you change anything ever.

[Daisymae]

Step 1: burn your candle. Actually watch it and see if it has any issues. In fact burn 2 or 3 for consistancy. Remember you like candles and this is fun!

Once you've done that you should know where to go from there. I don't think that testing needs to be a huge production, but you do need to know what issues your candles may and may not have. You will likely decide that your wicking is imperfect (because what are the chances you got it right the very first time?) and should be able to do research to figure out how to correct your issues.

Repeat the process when you change anything ever.

Thank you so much! I appreciate your knowledge infinitely!

[LuminousBoutique]

Hi Daisy - steve summed it up pretty well, there are thousands upon thousands of threads here, so not that people are trying to be rude.. its just we've answered the questions before (or asked them ourselves ) many times, and it gets really old really fast.

Before you even think about selling, I'd do as everyone said. Test, burn. Test, burn. Test, burn.

so for me, that means picking a new container, picking the wicks I think will work best based on the container, my wax, and charts, test pouring a scent with these wicks, and curing.

Once my candles are cured, I'll burn all 4 (usually I test 4 wicks. Two of one type (like HTP) and two of another (like cotton core) same jar, same wax, same fragrane. Burn all 4 equally, same time, off and on or power burn all the way to the bottom. Check your jar for tunneling (wick is burning straight down, not consuming all the wax on the sides), smoking/mushrooming of the wick (some is acceptable to some chandlers, to others its not), overheating of the glass...

Then, you can narrow it down.

X wick got the glass way too hot- overwicked.

X wick tunneled and went out.. not big enough to consume the wax.

X wick was perfect

X wick smoked/shroomed..

so on and so forth.

Now you have an idea of what wick works best for your container.

Move on to fragrance testing. Make a candle, with that wick, for every fragrance you are planning on offering. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but in my opinion its irresponsible and lazy to sell an untested candle (not suggesting you would, but we've seen it...). Some fragrances will require wicking up, so you can figure that out pretty quick with a test burn. Some just wont throw worth a damn.. weak, or require a longer cure.. or whatever it is. But you wont know until you test. You will get candle nose- so here is where the family/friends come in- they can help you test. Once you are sure your candle is safe (not going to burn them, not overwicked/smoking/fire hazard) they can test scents with you, to help you determine which throws best! Some fragrances you'll immediately love and have no problems with, others are the biggest pain in the ass you'll ever find and you might just decide they arent worth it, lol!

Steve wasnt kidding when he said we go through cases of wax testing.. thats 50lb cases.. not to mention all the jars, wicks, and fragrance you burn through. This is an expensive hobby - think THOUSANDS of dollars, not hundreds - and an even more expensive business... but when you get it right, and you make that perfect candle, all the hard work is worth it.

But just an example.. I've been testing a new container for 4 weeks now, I pour and burn almost everyday, and I'm only 18 scents in. I still have over 100 fragrances to test in this jar if I want to sell them.. now, of course I have notes that say "x fragrance required wicking up in z jar, a jar, and x jar" but unless I test it in this jar, I cant be CERTAIN. if I wick up, and sell it as is- I could be selling a candle that will burn too fast and get too hot.. know what I'm saying? So while testing is frustrating and long and expensive.. its incredibly important and its something you'll have with you always. Keep notes, back them up somewhere (computer crashes wiping out notes will make you crumple into a ball and sob!) and dont be afraid to ask questions but always use search first because chances are it has been asked.. if not, people are glad to help.

Have fun and welcome to your new obsession!!

[SatinDucky]

You have been given some very good advice. I don't think anyone was actually trying to ignore your melt pool question, more likely, just taken aback by the "I've made one candle and want to sell now" part. You need to know how important thorough testing is first. And the general what do I do now - There's no way all the testing procedures (besides many peoples methods vary) and everything that can go wrong and what to look for and how to correct it and etc, etc can all be put in one post. If it could be answered that easy there wouldn't be much need for a board like this.

Following the FAQ's link and searching melt pool... good info there

http://www.candletech.com/searchresults.htm?cx=006859900080205495750%3Ac3ifryu3wci&cof=FORID%3A11&q=melt+pool&sa=Search#993

Putting aside the safety issue for a moment (which should never forgotten) if you sell a candle that burns like crap, you wont have a business because you'll only be able to find so many first time customers. If you're serious about wanting it to be a successful business, making the best/safest burning/smelling candle should be your first goal.

Having said that... welcome to your new addiction! Making candles is a blast

[EricofAZ]

I don't think that website did much good for explaining a melt pool.

I've asked this question here on the forum as well and I don't think there is a good answer.

The diameter growth over time ratio is a good rule of thumb for smaller candles (2 to 3 inches).

You may want to see what your melt pool is like at 4 hours, the recommended max burn time. I don't think there is an agreement but most (myself included) seem to like a pool that either just touches the sides or barely leaves some hangup on the sides.

I read somewhere that 1/4 inch depth in the center and wall to wall was standard (the MP should be like a cone or cup with the depth at the wick and shallower as it spreads out, hence the ability to tunnel when the flame is too cool at a certain diameter to melt the wax). This might be OK to shoot for.

However, the longer it burns, the more likely the wax will start to liquify deeper and 1/4 inch at the wall is, IMHO, too much. It will throw off more of the FO and the second burn will be pretty weak for a hot throw. Plus, this kind of deep side pool may be an indication that there will be a problem on the power burn.

Power burns are where you test the candle for longer than 4 hours. Some do a power burn for 6 hours, some for 12. I've been known to power burn some of mine for 36 hours.

If, on a power burn, the jar gets hot and the pool deep, you might want to consider, for safety, to downwick the candle. See if you can still get the regular burn to work for you.

Changing the kind of wax that you use or the FO amount or fragrance or manufacturer can change your wick choice to get this perfect balance. Some people here have even experienced different burn characteristics when getting in a new shipment of the same kind of wax they used for years.

I hope this helps with MP and why some of the folks have cautioned in this thread.

Oh, and as far as not getting sued... If someone is injured, they'll want to have the bills paid and some compensation for the lost work and pain and disruption to their lives. You may have funds set aside to pay for this. Most people don't. Your homeowner insurance may or may not cover this for a hobby and likely will not cover this for a business. If they suffer property loss, they'll turn it in to their homeowner who will subrogate against you. If your carrier lowballs the offer, expect to be served papers. The lowball offers are getting pretty bad with all this "tort reform" being tossed around. Its good for the carrier profits, but not good for keeping you out of the courtroom. Expect your carrier to either walk away or lowball so bad that you get put in the defendant's chair just to make things right.

Edited February 7, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Daisymae]

I don't think that website did much good for explaining a melt pool.

I've asked this question here on the forum as well and I don't think there is a good answer.

The diameter growth over time ratio is a good rule of thumb for smaller candles (2 to 3 inches).

You may want to see what your melt pool is like at 4 hours, the recommended max burn time. I don't think there is an agreement but most (myself included) seem to like a pool that either just touches the sides or barely leaves some hangup on the sides.

I read somewhere that 1/4 inch depth in the center and wall to wall was standard (the MP should be like a cone or cup with the depth at the wick and shallower as it spreads out, hence the ability to tunnel when the flame is too cool at a certain diameter to melt the wax). This might be OK to shoot for.

However, the longer it burns, the more likely the wax will start to liquify deeper and 1/4 inch at the wall is, IMHO, too much. It will throw off more of the FO and the second burn will be pretty weak for a hot throw. Plus, this kind of deep side pool may be an indication that there will be a problem on the power burn.

Power burns are where you test the candle for longer than 4 hours. Some do a power burn for 6 hours, some for 12. I've been known to power burn some of mine for 36 hours.

If, on a power burn, the jar gets hot and the pool deep, you might want to consider, for safety, to downwick the candle. See if you can still get the regular burn to work for you.

Changing the kind of wax that you use or the FO amount or fragrance or manufacturer can change your wick choice to get this perfect balance. Some people here have even experienced different burn characteristics when getting in a new shipment of the same kind of wax they used for years.

I hope this helps with MP and why some of the folks have cautioned in this thread.

Oh, and as far as not getting sued... If someone is injured, they'll want to have the bills paid and some compensation for the lost work and pain and disruption to their lives. You may have funds set aside to pay for this. Most people don't. Your homeowner insurance may or may not cover this for a hobby and likely will not cover this for a business. If they suffer property loss, they'll turn it in to their homeowner who will subrogate against you. If your carrier lowballs the offer, expect to be served papers. The lowball offers are getting pretty bad with all this "tort reform" being tossed around. Its good for the carrier profits, but not good for keeping you out of the courtroom. Expect your carrier to either walk away or lowball so bad that you get put in the defendant's chair just to make things right.

Thanks for thoroughly answering my question...

On a down note...one of my kids accidentally knocked several of my candles off the countertop! I guess those are definitely NOT sellable...lmbo! It is so disappointing to see all that hard work shatter into pieces...oh well, accidents happen!

Gotta go pour!

[Georgia]

If you want to search multiple terms on this board, use Google.. Type in "melt pool" site:craftserver.com and you will have 148 results for melt pool on Craftserver.

You've been given a lot of good advice and yes, it is kind of like cold water in the face of your enthusiasm. We don't want to squash that...we just want you to have repeat customers! It is a fun hobby/business. Enjoy it and be safe!

[SliverOfWax]

:tiptoe:

Right behind ya.

Zippppppppppppppppppp.

[mindy5140]

Thanks for thoroughly answering my question...

On a down note...one of my kids accidentally knocked several of my candles off the countertop! I guess those are definitely NOT sellable...lmbo! It is so disappointing to see all that hard work shatter into pieces...oh well, accidents happen!

Gotta go pour!

Have you been paying attention at all?? What hard work are you talking about, lol??

[Ravens]

Daisymae

I truly wish you success when you finally decide to sell your candles, but please, please test each and every candle/FO you pour. Test each new scent, new container, wick, etc. etc. etc. etc.

when did you start pouring candles? Do you keep notes? I would never sell a candle to anyone without some product liability coverage, and certainly never before a lot of testing. Let's see, how long have I been testing and still feel not even ready to sell a candle?.... Hmmm, must be close to a year now.

Unless you're extraordinarily talented or lucky, I really believe you have a lot of testing ahead of you.

How many scents do you plan on offering? Just one type of container (the tureen, which is hell to wick, btw), are you using paraffin, soy, palm, parasoy? Do you color your candles? I'm assuming you tested your candles? How did you test?

Sorry about all the questions I have, but I'd like to get a clearer picture. Good luck! :smiley2:

[Pam W]

Daisymae

I'm assuming you tested your candles? How did you test?

Sorry about all the questions I have, but I'd like to get a clearer picture. Good luck! :smiley2:

If they were sitting on the counter, they obviously have NOT been tested.

[Ravens]

Thought perhaps the ones on the counter were a new batch, lol

Still, I think I'd better :tiptoe: and :lipsrseal 'cause this could easily get :shocked2:

[bearmnt]

I read this forum for 2 years before I poured my first candle...

[SatinDucky]

I read this forum for 2 years before I poured my first candle...

I poured my first container candle before finding this forum. Of course, I have an ugly round burn mark on my beautiful oak coffee table from that candle too

[Pam W]

Posted By Daisymae JANUARY 29

Newbie...dye question

I just got finished with my very first candle and .....

Edited February 8, 2011 by Pam W