Wessex Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 (edited) Decided to add a couple picture. Jar on left is new GG, jar on right is old GG. Same FO, slightly different dye (playing around). Jar on left wicked with CSN7, jar on right with CSN11. Both at end of second 4 hour burn. Notice "fried" wick on left jar. Both poured the same way and cooled the same way. BTW - notice the line in the wax on the left jar about 1/2" - 3/4" down, that was how deep the meltpool was!Steve Edited October 8, 2010 by Wessex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbrook Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 UGH! That sucks! Like I said earlier, that is why I quite using soy because I was sick of the inconsistencies. Now I am back to square one. I have not ordered any of the new stuff from CS but I was about to in the next couple weeks. The next option is Peaks. For me the shipping is about the same but their prices are higher. And I guess there are no guarantees that they have the right stuff either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond66 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 [ATTACH]20732[/ATTACH]Here is one more shot of the old batch versus the new batch. I used the same percentage of FO and dye in both candles. On a brighter note, I poured a few candles from the couple of cases I received from Peak and they are setting up more like the standard GG we are used to. Lot number on the stuff from Peak is 0266929. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemylabs Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Wow...the pics you guys have posted really show this is not the same wax. Didn't someone post they had been using this wax for some time now (like a couple of years) and this is the very first time this has happened? If that's the case then that means this wax has been the same, season in and season out, and always yielded the same beautiful crystal finish. With that being said, there is a major screw up somewhere and I'm not willing to take a chance on ordering more from CS until this gets straightened out. Peak is just too far for us and the shipping would kill us. However, I checked around and was trying to find a supplier closer to the East Coast. Aztec (TN)carries a Glass Glow Palm. The shipping would only be $6.29 more than CS...and that is worth it if it is the same GG that we know it to be. Anyone tried Aztec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Never tried Aztec, but may have to order a bit and give it a try. Like you, Peak is just too far away, shipping was quoted at about 50 bucks per case. Pallet would be cheaper, but I am not willing to invest until I know wax is what I want. I used to get mine from C&S, but it has been awhile. Shipping isn't horrid, but way more than CS. Oh, and something else I noticed about the new batch today as I was boxing some candles...it shrinks away from the sides of the container! If it wasn't for the wick stickem, the wax in my 8 oz jelly jar would just slide right out! Really interested to know what this wax really is. Think the Manufacturer screwed the pooch! And I am definately not blaming CS for this snafu, they did their tests and just didn't seem to come across the "dud" cases. I am at a loss what to do at the moment...Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemylabs Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Steve...just went to Aztec and there is no picture of a finished candle so we can see a pattern. And the directions are different as far as pouring temp. I'm gonna give them a call before I place an order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemylabs Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Just got off the phone with Aztec. The gal was helpful and said the wax they currently have has been in stock since August. She also said that (I can't remember who she mentioned...maybe IGI) actually refused a shipment of GG recently. She said she has a customer who has been buying this wax, and also recently ordered some more and there has been no complaints from him. So, I'm assuming it's the same wax. I'm going to go ahead and place an order to see if it's the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 I just got off the phone, too! Same info, LOL. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemylabs Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Steve...what do you think about the extreme difference in the temp recommendations that Aztec mentions over just about every other supplier? You think this is the same wax that we're use to? This gal from Aztec went to CS's site while we were on the phone and said it's the same wax. The only thing that makes me uncomfortable is that I didn't see where you could buy a sample...had to be a case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Well, it is listed as R2322, which is the IGI number for Glass Glow. You might want to call them back and see if it is listed as SAW 2268 on the bag (assuming they get it from PT Sumi Asih). If they get it from IGI, I would assume it is the same. Of course, since it is listed under Soy waxes, I wouldn't be surprised that they just don't know alot about it. Or just started carrying it. I would assume that is the reason the directions are a bit iffy. But it might be an expensive assumption. I am debating whether to get it myself. If, however, it comes from S. America, I would not buy it based on the reports of deforestation from palm suppliers in that neck of the woods. But again, I would assume if it is from IGI, it comes from Indonesia.Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 You might want to call them back and see if it is listed as SAW 2268 on the bag (assuming they get it from PT Sumi Asih). That number sounded so familiar ... I checked my bag of starburst pillar palm and it's SAW 3268. Same last 3 numbers is a little too close for my comfort. Have you tried pouring the starburst in a jelly jar for comparison? Pillar palm would shrink in a container. I do have some if you need any ..... just pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Yeah, I have worked with the Starburst, Feather (love it for pillars and votives), Crystal, Frost, Tortoiseshell...I think that's it, LOL. It is not one of the container blends. Not near that amount of shrinkage. In the 8 oz jelly, you can slip a piece of copy paper between the wax and glass. Now I am a little leary of getting large amounts from anyone. Thought about calling IGI and seeing who else carried it near me, but they had already closed up shop for the evening. Just trying to figure out what to do...Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemylabs Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 I had to run out but sent an email back to Aztec asking for more information on what they said was GG Palm. I asked them to check numbers on bags, where was this shipped from, if it is GG then why the difference in heating/pouring recommendations that differ so much from other suppliers, etc. I didn't order any from them yet, which I'm glad I didn't. I was starting to feel desperate as I have looked around and a couple of suppliers sites said they are sold out. The gal at Aztec said they only have a pallet left. But, I'm just not sure this is GG Palm. Like you said Steve, they have it listed under Soy, plus those heating & pouring temps don't match any other suppliers instructions; they just are too different. So I'm gonna hold off till I get more information from them. As far as what y'all are currently testing from CS, I'd just like to know if there wasn't some kind of huge mess up where it's manufactured and bagged. I've been feeling that from the beginning. I mean, this stuff is handled by people and mistakes can happen. And like Judy said, those numbers are really similar. Could be a batch was bagged wrong and shipped out before it was caught? Maybe I'm just grasping here. But hey, I have an idea...why don't we ask CS to take a good amount of the bags that's suppose to be GG and make one small test batch from each bag. If it's the "old stuff"...then sell it. If the pattern is completely different...then don't. Then they reduce the price of the bag a little! OK? (Maybe I'm just tired) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 Thats alot to ask from CS. I wouldn't imagine they would be willing to do that, it would take them alot of time and effort. As much as I would like some kind of explanation from somebody, I don't think it is going to happen. But somebody definately screwed up somewhere. I think it was the manufacturer, and somehow it has come to haunt us, the end users. I don't think there is much to be done. I hate to say that, but I am trying to keep a level head and not be pissed off. Boy, is it hard! I am trying to figure out how best to work with this new wax, whatever the hell it is. Think I shall name it Dud Palm, and see if IGI will give it a nomenclature. Maybe IGI R2322B, since the GG is R2322A! It doesn't seem to be comparable to any other Palm I am aware of. Of course the manufacturer also makes different grades for other applications. I'm just saying...Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Looks like pillar wax to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 Unfortunately it is too soft for pillar. Here is a picture of a burn I just finished in a 6 oz. hex. You can see the the wax flowed down into the void left when the wax shrank away from the sides of the jar. GG Palm my ass!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 (edited) Palm wax is never "soft" like soy or paraffin container formulas. The only appreciable difference is that GG doesn't shrink from the sides to the extent that pillar palm formulas do and usually sticks like glue to most mold materials. The wax you are using looks like it would make nice pillars or votives. Sometimes batches do get mislabeled from the manufacturer... the supplier may not realize this because it is pretty rare and doesn't happen on their watch - Might only be one or two bags in their shipment! I once bought a batch of feathering palm wax (from another supplier) that was mislabeled as starburst. After trying every which way but loose to get the crystal pattern I wanted, I finally realized that it was a mistake when I ordered some feathering palm from another source which had the exact same crystal pattern. So I quite trying to make the mislabeled stuff do what it could not do and made feathering pillars & votives from it instead. They were quite pleasing. From what I have seen in your photos, my money is on starburst pillar/votive wax. Just for grins, try making a couple of pillars or votives to see what happens... Edited October 9, 2010 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond66 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 [ATTACH]20774[/ATTACH]Back in business thanks to Peak!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemylabs Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Beautiful!!! Man...I wish we were closer to Peak. We are on the SC coast...shipping would kill us. But so happy for ya!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) Very nice Vagabond.Went ahead and made some votives with the wax. Pics are with and without flash. It is a cool looking pattern. Really looks closest to the GG Palm I made into votives a while ago (just to see what happened, LOL). Definately not Feather, or Starburst, or even IGI R2319 Granulated Palm (discontinued). I guess it is just a morph of GG Palm. Looks better in votives than in jars. Will burn in a few days and see how the do. BTW - came out of the votive mold easy enough, but wick pin was a tiny bit harder to remove than with the pillar/votive blends.Cheers,Steve Edited October 10, 2010 by Wessex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond66 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I did some more testing with the new batch of wax from CS before I threw it out. I was definately getting some vertical striping in the crystal pattern like the old GG, but it was still filled in with the smaller crystals again. So much so that it was changing the colors of the final product when it set up completely. Every one also had a dip at the top around the wicks and it also pulled away slightly from the glass which had been mentioned previously. I'd love to find out which company refused the shipment of GG recently because I have a sneaky feeling that they ran into the same results we did here and werent happy. I'm having great luck with the GG I ordered from Peak but then again what happens if this is still part of the old batch and they run out as well? Not sure. If this truly is due to variations in the growth of the fruit then we may all be stuck using this new batch/version of GG until they run out. Man I hope not..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond66 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Steve, The vertical striping/crystal pattern you're seeing in the votives you made was exactly the same pattern I got from the containers. Defintely not crystal or feather but certainly not the GG we are used to either. Major bummer for all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wessex Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 Yep, same pattern. Votives look ok, hope they burn well. Give me a use for the wax I have left. Did you ever get the lot number off your bag?Cheers,Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond66 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Couldnt get the lot# off of the case from CS because it was too faded. The lot# off the cases from Peak is 0266929. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pristina Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Wow what a difference in how that wax is appearing. I'm real nervous now because I think I have this bad batch as well. Is everyone experiencing a difference with the wicking?I poured a tester yesterday and the melt pool is way too big! This is very frustrating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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