Spongy soap - now I have some questions

[Jeana]

I made a batch of soap recently that turned out spongy feeling. Not soft and sticky, but a dry soft. If you pinch it hard it leaves impressions. This was a new recipe that seemed like it was working great. As it started to gel I noticed the top was cracking so I prevented it from gelling any further. Could lack of gelling be why it is spongy feeling?

Here is the recipe:

Soy wax 21%

CO 15%

Olive Pomace 19%

Palm Kernal 15 %

Castor 10%

Rice Bran 15%

Cocoa Butter 5%

It has a super great lather, and bubble when wet. I just don't like how soft it is and I am concerned it won't get harder than this as it cures.

I tried to decrease my palm and CO amounts. I didn't want to have more than 30% total for both oils. I was looking for a hard bar with a low cleansing number.

Could using less water help make this recipe harder?

[Michi]

Lately all my soaps have been "spongey" and a wise soaper told me to try a small water discount.

They do tend to firm up over time as they cure but makes it really hard to cut them and having no patience I hate waiting to see my soapies.

I made a batch last night with the advice given me, and tonight when I unmolded, it DOES seem to be a bit harder.

Did you happen to use TD in this batch?

It seems that the batches where I use TD are the ones that are softer, not sure if that's the case, but it sure seems to be a pattern.

[8-GRAN-ONES]

I have been wondering the same thing...If you will look I posted about the same thing...Only I made 1 recipe and divided it up so I could have 3 scents, and one of them is spongy after 3 wks..the others are getting hard..maybe it is the weather???

Or I asked the question, could it be the FO..???

[CareBear]

-What was the concentration of your lye solution? - the more water you have the longer it takes to harden up

-How long ago did you make it? - the cure period is very important, especially with olive oil, not sure about rice bran oil

-What are the conditions like where it was curing? - damp air will slow things down the "hardening" considerably

-At what level did you superfat it? - higher superfat means a softer bar

-What kind of soy wax did you use? - not all soy waxes are created equal

Typically harder bars are more cleansing, by the way - but you can work around this sometimes. For example olive oil soap EVENTUALLY gets rock hard...

[mystical_angel1219]

I've never soaped with soy wax, sounds interesting.

You can add sodium lactate in small amounts to firm up the bars.

[Jeana]

I'll answer everyones questions, but I have even more of my own now. :embarasse

I did use TD, I didn't know this could effect how hard it gets. I used TD in a shea butter soap one time and it got super hard. But I want to get away from using butters to lower my costs some.

This batch is only on its third week of curing, but my other recipes seemed to feel much different by this time. The weather here has been back and forth damp, then dry again. The heater has been on alot, which should help dry it out some.

I used Bluegrass 100% soy in this.

I did 14 oz lye and 5.45 oz lye. The excess fat was to be 5%. The MMS calculator said I could use 5.46 lye and between 10 to 15 oz water. If I was to go to either 10 or 11 oz water, would that be considered a water discount? And would that make my soap harder? Does adding the higher water amount just take longer to cure, or does it make a total difference over all? (Does that make sense) Is cure time the only reason to do the lower water amount? Does decreasing the water, effect the numbers given on soap calc? For example would it leave it with a higher cleansing number?

I haven't heard too much about water discounts so I'm not really sure if I understand this completely.

I'm still very curious if preventing the gel stage changes the outcome of the soap though.

[CareBear]

Well if you used 5.45 oz lye and you had a 28% lye sol which is not terribly weak - pretty typical and would not be considered discounted. 3 weeks is not very long for a cure - give it at least another week before judging - longer if it's humid. Discounting water (i.e., increasing your lye concentration) does not affect how mild or cleansing your soap is (but changing the superfat will 5% is very typical as well).

If your soap did not gel then give it a few more weeks at least. It just seems to slow everything down in my experience.

Don't know about the TD - I've only used it in small amounts. Folks here say if you overdo it you can get a chalky soap but I guess I haven't done that (yet).

[topofmurrayhill]

Two things I'm wondering...

What temperature did you soap at?

Would you describe the feel of the soap as waxy/rubbery?

[Jeana]

I soaped at room temp. And it is so hard to describe how it feels. It feels like a bar that has cured a long time, but you can still squish it. It doesn't feel waxy or rubbery. In fact, it feels less waxy than some of my other recipes. When I picked it up fresh it didn't leave much residue on my hands. That is why I am surprised it hasn't become super hard by now.

Carebear, how did you get percentage of lye solution?

[CareBear]

weight of lye divided by the total of the lye + water. take that and multiply by 100 to make it a %.

5.45 divided by (5.45 + 14) = 5.45/19.45 = 0.28

0.28 * 100 brings you to 28%

[Jeana]

That's what I thought you were doing, but I get .38, almost .39 when I divide. What are the percent ranges of the solution being too weak or strong?

[CareBear]

that's because you are not adding the weight of the lye to the water when you divide. You need to divide the weight of the lye by the TOTAL weight.

28% is on the weak side of typical - it shouldn't be a problem.

[Kelly]

I just made my first batch of CP last week and the outside of the bars are solid... I can touch them and it won't leave finger prints but if I push in the center they "give" a little and feel spongy. I wonder if this is the same thing you are experiencing?

Mine haven't cured for long but since this is my first batch of CP I wasn't quite sure what it should be like at this stage? I had assumed it would be harder and not "give". I'm kind of frustrated and worried I screwed it up. Kind of makes me want to give up on CP but everyone says its so rewarding and fun... but I might just go back to my HP!

[Louise]

It sounds to me like you gals are expecting your soaps to be rock hard with a matter of weeks. This will not happen. They "may" be ready to use in 4 weeks, however, they will not be solid hard all the way through. You need to give them more time to dry. If you want to get a good look/feel for it, cut one of your bars in half and then check out the inside. It will be wet in there. HTH