daniedb Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 **I edited this post based on advice from a few respected businesspeople, to include names of the company and individual**I had an idea about a month ago for a fragrance that I was going to blend that I was very excited about - it's a regional thing that is very well known in South Texas, and I wanted to have an exclusive scent for it that I've never seen anyone do yet. I was SO excited! There's this beautiful plant called Texas Mountain Laurel that blossoms for a few weeks in the spring, and has these really sweet, grapey bubble gum, very strongly scented blossoms.So, I emailed Deborah at Nature's Garden Candles, and asked her what scents I could mix to come up with the end result I desired. She mixed something for me, from her FOs, and also mentioned that my request was interesting enough to ask her perfumist to come up with a rendition.A few weeks later, she sent me a sample in the mail of the perfumist's version, and the NG version. I emailed her saying that I prefered the perfumist's version over the mixed version, and asked what I needed to do to procure a number of pounds of that FO through her. The reply was that in order to get that FO exclusively, I would have to buy 50 pounds of FO. As much as I'd like to do that, as I shared with her, we're not there yet. Perhaps next year, but not at this moment.The next email I receive stated the following:We were thinking of carrying the new Mountain Laurel fragrance oil (perfumist version) in our regular line, that is why I sent the idea to the perfumist. Now that he has that fragrance in his fragrance library, if we don't order it, he is free to sell it to some other company if he likes (since it is his created work). If we do order it, it will only be sold to our company. I really think it is only a matter of time before you see it show up at some other company now.I am posting this, not to ruffle feathers, or complain about my treatment (although I am very upset and disappointed), but to protect anyone else from this sort of situation. If you have any possible proprietary information, any ideas that you want to market for your business exclusively, I would caution against sharing it with Nature's Garden. I have done business with them before, and was looking forward to a long and profitable relationship on both ends, and am so disappointed in this latest news. Again, the only reason I post this is to warn others of what happened to me. I absolutely hate to open myself up to controversy or drama, but if someone else had warned me to not share this idea with Deborah, I would have an exclusive scent I could market myself, and not have to complete against hundreds of chandlers and B&B makers for *my* idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudsnwicks Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Oh, that was not nice of them to steal your idea. :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 That does sound like a bummer, but I do think that is what anyone should expect to happen in this type situation and therefore you should take proper precautions before ever letting your ideas out like that.I doubt it is reasonable to assume any FO company is just goin to go thru all the work to formulate a new scent and go thru all the trouble that this would entail, just to make a few pounds of the FO and just sell it to one person. They did offer you the exclusive right if you bought just 50 pounds - I would personally have guessed it would take a much larger commitment - 100's of pounds if not more - to get an exclusive scent for just "me". Add to that the fact that the smell you want was one "found in nature" and not really something entirely made up by people and you have even less grounds.That being said, it is a good lesson to everyone here, that you must always cover your hiney :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenn A Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Oh gosh!I am so sorry that happened to you Jenn A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Angela7 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 That does suck....but I kinda would've expected it :undecided . Maybe it's just me, but I don't trust many people.... I order from NG, but I would think that if you shared your idea with many other companies it may have happened. If they see $$$$$$ in it, why wouldn't they do it? There's a lot of people out for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubzz Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 So sorry this happened to you - You did have a great ideabut I would bet that even if you had kept this to yourself and managed to get this out there on your own you wouldn't have had it all to yourself for long before others came up with dupes - Look at all the dupes that are out there already of established fragrances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockmonkey Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Who is Deborah kidding? They were "thinking" of carrying it in their regular line, yet it's only a matter of time before it shows up at some other company? Sounds like she's talking out of both sides of her mouth, and trying to make a nice sale off of you. I don't think it's worth worrying about. Nothing is preventing you from discussing this with other companies, but getting info up front first--what is the minimum amount you will have to purchase to obtain a custom, proprietary scent. Another company might possibly come up with an even better version. Yet another thought, I don't know how much NG would sell 50 pounds for, but would it be possible for you to buy it and resell it as your exclusive fragrance, or do a coop with it?Quote:We were thinking of carrying the new Mountain Laurel fragrance oil (perfumist version) in our regular line, that is why I sent the idea to the perfumist. Now that he has that fragrance in his fragrance library, if we don't order it, he is free to sell it to some other company if he likes (since it is his created work). If we do order it, it will only be sold to our company. I really think it is only a matter of time before you see it show up at some other company now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharyl55 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Lessons learned thru the school of hard knocks are tough but a valuable experience. Now you and the rest of us know what bases have to be covered. In NG and the perfumist's defense, the costs they incurred developing the 2nd version have to be compensated somehow. Unfortunately you weren't aware of what the cost to you would be. Now go out and smell some more flowers and come up with another unique South Texas scent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Well, the title of this thread seems rather unfair. You handled your own interests poorly and are now suggesting that the supplier is unscrupulous because you blurted out the name of a flower and they want to carry the scent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Wow this is a good example of why we should be so careful. BUT it isn't a blend it's a natural scent (as I understand it), so it belong to Mother Nature.If we want an exclusive those details must be worked out contractually before hand.Realistically if it catches on it will be duped anyway - sorry.Since exclusive was not a part of the inquiry sorry to say I don't think anyone is at "fault".Actually the perfummer invented it. The question would be was it invented under exclusive contact to you.Sorry don't mean to be negative but there is a lesson that may help others in the future.Best of Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Interesting. I knew of the policy of the fragrance manufacturers, but I guess I wouldn't have followed that through logically to the conclusion that happened, asking a reseller to develop something. I would have expected her to ask your permission to send it on to the perfumer. So I would have ended up in the same situation. Probably same thing would happen if you went directly to IFT or Royal Aromatics - if they developed something for you and you didn't buy, it would be out there for anyone to sample. And with that name it will probably be popular, I know I'd be interested Thanks for sharing this - I know how disappointed you must be, but it *is* a good lesson for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debscent Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I'm not really seeing anything wrong with what NG did. And 50 lbs. of an "exclusive" scent is a bargain. Sorry you learned a tough lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniedb Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Yes, it was a good lesson for me to learn, and as I mentioned, that's my only intent for sharing this. I have gotten excellent customer service from NG in the past, and was very disheartened when this happened...so I just wanted to share this experience with other who may not have realized the implications of doing what I did.Had I shared with Deborah from the beginning that my intention and desire was to make this an exclusive scent to my company, I would have no room for argument, but as it is, I was clear about my desire for exclusivity - so that is where the frustration lies. So, there you go...and I'm hoping that it helps someone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlegurl Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Sorry for your troubles...but I still think you can get a hold on the market with the fragrance before others get their hands on it. Get some of the candles poured and start pushing them to your contacts. I would think it would be a while before others discover it, get it tested and on the market...JMO Stacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniedb Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Yep, I'm feeling like I can still get a jump on the market now - as long as I bust my hump in the next few months! I was going to wait until spring to roll it out with a whole bunch of fanfare, but I may have to push up the date.And I also wanted to update you guys, in the interest of fairness and full disclosure - Deborah emailed me this morning after I sent her my response last night, in which I also let her know that I posted this on the board, so she wouldn't be blindsided by it if someone pointed it out to her. She did take steps to help remedy the situation. She has told me that she will request the perfumist to pull the FO from his line, and will not add it to her line. So, for now, it appears that the situation has been remedied, and I am glad for that.I have learned a very valuable lesson, and while Deborah is obviously very unhappy with my response, she has remained professional and did her best to fix whatever problem was created here. So, there you go, and there I go...now I know, again, to just keep things closer to the vest, and to communicate more clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Ice Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Good to know she has done that. Will you go ahead and get 50lbs of the scent and begin pouring it?:undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 She should get some points for handling it generously.From a business point of view, if I sell fragrances I can't be bound to not carry a scent because someone decides to send me an e-mail or give me a call. I would hesitate to even sign a confidentiality and non-compete agreement. Who knows, maybe I already had the idea or maybe I'll think of it next month or maybe it's something obvious, so I wouldn't limit myself sight unseen.Of course that puts you in a tricky situation if you think you can mix existing scents but need help to do it. Alternatively you can have the scent created for you but then you have to find out the terms for exclusivity before telling them what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceCarvesWax Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 If you would buy the 50# , you could resell what you wanted to and keep the rest. Thats what a few peeps do and how they get into wholesale. You would be exclusive and might make enough off the sales to keep what you use for free??? Not a bad deal if you ask me. Im sure there are lots of people that would want to try the scent if it threw well. I know I have talked to the owner of candle cocoon (Lyschel) and she said she has come up with several custom scents that were just not quit right and she didnt pick them up in her line. She told me that some of the huge candle companies did pick up the scents and the way she was talking, she tought that was a compliment to her and she didnt mind it. 50# is not to bad and I know you could sell off some of it. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Talk to some people in KY...they have a Mountain Laurel Festival there every yr in Laurel County.I have to say I am not at all surprised at NG's reply. However, is is very sad to have your idea "stolen" from you. Mix your own scent! get some 1 oz samples of muscadine (You said it had a grape scent to it) and then figure out what else needs to be in there. This way if they do come out with that scent you will have something different. I mix a couple of my own scents and they go great!OH yeah...almost forgot.....I find it hard to believe that a company that large would have their purfumers mix up an exclusive scent for you and not even know if you are commiting to buying it. Sort of a bad business decision on her part if ya ask me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edensong Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 The info in her 2nd email to you should have been included with her first email. It's called full disclosure. If you had known, perhaps you wouldn't have divulged your idea to her and just waited until you could afford to buy 50 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 The info in her 2nd email to you should have been included with her first email. It's called full disclosure. If you had known, perhaps you wouldn't have divulged your idea to her and just waited until you could afford to buy 50 lbs.She divulged the idea right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryann Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 If you would buy the 50# , you could resell what you wanted to and keep the rest. Thats what a few peeps do and how they get into wholesale. You would be exclusive and might make enough off the sales to keep what you use for free??? Not a bad deal if you ask me. Im sure there are lots of people that would want to try the scent if it threw well. I know I have talked to the owner of candle cocoon (Lyschel) and she said she has come up with several custom scents that were just not quit right and she didnt pick them up in her line. She told me that some of the huge candle companies did pick up the scents and the way she was talking, she tought that was a compliment to her and she didnt mind it. 50# is not to bad and I know you could sell off some of it. Bruce Sorry to hear about this whole situation! Its hard to always think of everything especially when one side knows more about the subject at hand than the other.I like this idea by Bruce, are you able to do it?? or does that really defeat the whole purpose? Hope your able to come up w/ the $ and save your great idea. I would buy a lb or 2 from ya (is it body safe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candleessence Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Ooo, tough situation! Great saying I heard that has always stuck-Sometimes you don't even know enough to know you don't know :undecided When it comes to business & business decisions like this I would def get a legal advisor involved next time, just to help you know exactly what everyones rights are or if there could be a way to protect just this sort of thing from not happening. I see both sides, but OUCH! I feel for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryann Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Curious Danielle what ever happened w/ this?? (if you don't mind me asking):tiptoe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I really hate to say this, but what exactly did you expect? For them to get their perfumer to make a new scent exclusively for you, but yet you dont want to pay any more than a few pounds for it? Are they just suppossed to store it for you as you need it? I am sure their supplier has a minimum order. I mean it is not exactly cheap to test and try diffrent FO's. Most suppliers wont even make a new scent for you. I mean how would you like it if a customer came to you, said they wanted such and such fragrance that you have never heard of. So you get your supplier to concoct it for you, then the customer turns around and says they only want it in the tealight. Woudl you not ever sell the leftover FO to anyone else (in the form of a candle perhaps)?I wanted a perfumer to mix a scent up for me (which I already do), to prevent me from having to buy 3 differnent FOs from 3 places, thus allowing me to buy from one place. However I never did just because I want rights to it, and Iknow I have to pay to trademark something. That and the fact, that if I do not like it, they would be free to sell it to anyone else, which would then be a "dupe" of my FO. Maybe I misunderstood something :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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