FO Chart for waxes

[TiffTiff89]

For the most part, the waxes I buy come with a label that tells me how much FO I can add, BUT... some don't. Is there a FO % chart somewhere?

[Stella1952]

The wax and wax additives determine the percentage of FO that the wax will carry. If a wax label does not have this information, you can ask the supplier from whom you purchased the wax or go to the wax manufacturer's site for more info. HTH:D

[BriteLite07]

OK u all aren't making sense to me. I just cam from another MB because they had all kinds of crap excuses on how to measure Fo's. So what if your wax, such as 4630 and other waxes that don't need additives, says up to 10% FO, so then I would use 1 oz, correct?

[Stella1952]

OK u all aren't making sense to me.

You use no more than is recommended by the manufacturer for your wax. My personal rule of thumb is no more than 1 oz./PP. Any more and I am wasting money.

I just cam from another MB because they had all kinds of crap excuses on how to measure Fo's. So what if your wax, such as 4630 and other waxes that don't need additives, says up to 10% FO, so then I would use 1 oz, correct

One does not "measure" FO, one WEIGHS it on a scale the same as wax. Measuring is for VOLUME, not weight. There is a difference between fluid ounces and weighed ounces.

If your wax holds up to 10% FO, that would be more than 1 oz. per pound. If you will search, there are many, many threads here where members have helped people trudge through the math to figure out the exact amounts or you could check out the calculators here.

Jeeze - I hope this doesn't sound like "crap excuses." :undecided

[Pam W]

OK u all aren't making sense to me. I just cam from another MB because they had all kinds of crap excuses on how to measure Fo's. So what if your wax, such as 4630 and other waxes that don't need additives, says up to 10% FO, so then I would use 1 oz, correct?

Recent discussion on this:

http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63494&highlight=4630

[Dana Mae]

It doesn't......

Dana

[jeniryan]

When I ordered my candle making kit from JBN, it came with a measuring shot glass that says fill to the top for a full 4oz, but, that you can also use to weigh FO with as well. Should I NOT use it as a measuring tool as it states that I can?

[Violetsexoticcandles]

When I ordered my candle making kit from JBN, it came with a measuring shot glass that says fill to the top for a full 4oz, but, that you can also use to weigh FO with as well. Should I NOT use it as a measuring tool as it states that I can?

You need to get a scale and put the shot glass on it, then tare (zero it out), add your fo until you get the percentage you want (usually 1 fluid ounce per lb). If you measure just with the shotglass, you're not going to get an accurate result. Take it from me- I wasn't using a scale for a long time and was wasting time & $ trying to get the percentage right. Get a scale, measure... Listen to Stella.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

OK u all aren't making sense to me. I just cam from another MB because they had all kinds of crap excuses on how to measure Fo's. So what if your wax, such as 4630 and other waxes that don't need additives, says up to 10% FO, so then I would use 1 oz, correct?

If you're using 10%, that would be 1.6 fluid ounces per lb. If an FO doesn't throw well at 1 oz per lb, it's not for me... you'd be throwing money out the window. There are plenty of FOs out there that DO throw at 1 oz per lb, sometimes even less.

[jeniryan]

I do have a scale, I was just going by the suppliers advice, there. I am new to the whole process, so that gets me off the hook I'm so glad this board is here....

[CareBear]

Despite who said it, measuring by volume is NOT good advice.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

Despite who said it, measuring by volume is NOT good advice.

I agree- it must be weighed on a scale. Not only would it be wasting money, but also, if you don't weigh it, you could be adding too much, which can cause the wax to sweat. Yuck.

[TiffTiff89]

No, that wasn't a crap excuse. I can't believe they said that! I mean I understand about being frustrated because let's face it, making candles can be frustrating. But if you are going to get mad, then you shouldn't be making them. Like everyone on here says, once you get it you get it.

[Stella1952]

If you're using 10%, that would be 1.6 fluid ounces per lb.

Just wanted to clarify: fluid ounces are not used - that is a volume measurement. 10% of 16 ounces (one pound) is 1.6 weighed ounces.

For any who are still confused, here are some examples that may make the light bulb come on for ya:

1. Your potato chips are sold by WEIGHT and not by VOLUME (as it states on the bag). You have a large glass bowl which holds one bag of chips. If you sit on the bag of chips before opening, the volume will change because you crushed the chips and the bowl will only be half-filled (depending upon how badly the chips were crushed), BUT the WEIGHT of the chips remains the same.

2. An 32 ounces (2 pounds) of feathers and 32 ounces (2 pounds) of concrete WEIGH the same, but the concrete will fit into one 8 FLUID ounce measuring cup, whereas the feathers will require a much larger container to contain their volume.

3. Cooking measurements - teaspoonfuls, cups, pints, etc. are ALL VOLUME measurements, based on FLUID ounces, not WEIGHED ounces.

4. Wax weighs LESS than water (it floats on the surface of water); therefore a pound of wax will have a greater VOLUME than water (more fluid ounces) even though both weigh the same amount.

5. A trash bag of wet diapers WEIGHS more than does the same garbage bag filled with styrofoam peanuts, even though their VOLUME is the same. Hump 'em both out to the curb to demonstrate this to yourself.

6. The original basic recipe for Pound cake was: a pound of flour, a pound of sugar, a pound of milk and a pound of eggs. People did not have measuring cup and measuring spoon sets in the old days, but they did have scales. One cupful of flour will WEIGH a different amount if sifted than it does when packed. This is why your modern recipe for pound cake may not taste as rich and good as your great-grandmother's recipe.

7. VOLUME is how much SPACE something takes up. WEIGHT is how HEAVY something is.

Because of our familiarity with cooking measures (volume measurements), people tend to want to use this, but it is an inaccurate way to measure ingredients. In cooking, one measures by the level teaspoonful (filled to the absolute top of the spoon and scraped off to ensure a "level" top) unless "heaping" tablespoonfuls are indicated. A heaping tablespoonful can be almost twice the actual amount, depending upon the substance being measured! The amount of error increases with the amount of the batch. Thus, the actual difference between 1 fluid ounce of vanilla FO and one weighed ounce may be small when making a half-pound batch of wax, but it becomes very noticable in a 10 pound batch. The same holds true with additives. Although many suppliers suggest X number of tablespoonfuls or teaspoonfuls per pound of wax, this is inaccurate and contributes to problems with larger batches of candles. For example: UV stabilizer is pretty light and not much is needed for a single pound of wax, so it requires a highly accurate scale to weigh the amount needed for a pound of wax. From one supplier's site:

Recommended usage is 0.2% to 0.5% if measuring by weight, or about 1/8 to 1/2 teaspoon per pound of wax if measuring by volume.

Notice the use of the word "about" - this means "approximately." So for 16 ounces of wax, one would use .032 ounces of UV stabilizer to achieve a .2% load per pound (16 ounces) of wax! Most lower priced scales won't weigh .032 ounces, so the suppliers have recommended a more common measurement - 1/8 teaspoonful - to make things easier, but this is NOT necessarily accurate and the weighed amount should be figured if making large batches of wax.

I have bookmarked an online calculator for converting percentages to weights (usng the same unit of measure, ie. ounces to ounces). Perhaps this will help dyscalculate individuals like me...

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

HTH

[CareBear]

I'm sure it's confusing.

Stella, you yourself just made a recommendation on some additive using a volume measurement. Which is fine when accuracy isn't vital. I guess what we need to learn (either from posts or experience) is when accuracy is key (use weights) and when you can get away with a bit of + or - (then can use volume).

As a newbie in candles, I'll stick with the accuracy so I have a better grip on where my screw-ups originate.

[artcwolf]

The same holds true with additives. Although many suppliers suggest X number of tablespoonfuls or teaspoonfuls per pound of wax, this is inaccurate and contributes to problems with larger batches of candles. For example: UV stabilizer is pretty light and not much is needed for a single pound of wax, so it requires a highly accurate scale to weigh the amount needed for a pound of wax. From one supplier's site:

Stella your whole post makes sense to me because my DD just learned the whole volume and weight stuff in class and we used my candles to help her understand.

I have noticed a huge difference with FOs once i started weighing, but the quote above raises a question for me.

I've been adding vybar to my wax using a volume amount not weight. In my testing i've learned i can use 3/4 teaspoon pp of vybar 103 and i get the smooth look i want, any less and it mottles a bit.

Should i be weighing my vybar or am i fine now that i've learned the volume measurement?

[Stella1952]

Stella, you yourself just made a recommendation on some additive using a volume measurement.

MANY people who have been making candles since the stone age use measurements which are comfortable for them and follow certain common conventions. Though I am relatively new to candlemaking, I am no different in that respect.

And what additive did me, myself recommend using a volume measurement? If it was USA (from JBN), UV stabilizer, beeswax or coconut oil, I used the volume measurements because that is what is commonly used in the posts here. Imagine if I told someone to use .2% per pound... I wonder how many followup posts that would cause!

We began this thread addressing the topic of measuring FO load and some newer folks were confused between the different types of measure. This isn't about me personally being a paragon of accuracy - it's about explaining things to folks who are new. There are many exceptions to the rule, as we all know, but is pointing them out helpful to people who are struggling to understand the basic concept? At sea level, at normal atmospheric pressure, above water? :rolleyes2

Using the example above of UV stabilizer, my scale will not register its weight because it is so light, especially when making only a pound or two of wax, so I use the volume measurement recommended by the supplier. I am fully aware that it's not totally accurate, but what's a woman to do when she doesn't possess a triple-beam scale? What I personally choose to do doesn't change the fact that measuring by volume is not as accurate as measuring by weight.

Should i be weighing my vybar or am i fine now that i've learned the volume measurement?

Artcwolf, if you are pleased with the way your candle looks and performs, that's the BEST recommendation. You are aware of the possibility of error, so I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless the candles had problems or I was making a much larger batch size, where the error might be more of a problem.

[CareBear]

I'd have to search to find what was by volume, but yea it was something like you mention - and I know it was because it was a) common usage and not something for which accuracy is vital. It was in no way a criticism; I was just pointing out why newbies (like me) might not know that volume is a no-no in many cases.

We use the resources we have.

[artcwolf]

Thanks stella for clearing that up....when get to making bigger batches like those of you in business i'll ask again for more accuracy

[ForHisGlory]

OK u all aren't making sense to me. I just cam from another MB because they had all kinds of crap excuses on how to measure Fo's. So what if your wax, such as 4630 and other waxes that don't need additives, says up to 10% FO, so then I would use 1 oz, correct?

One supplier told me the 4630 will hold 1.5 oz. I wouldn't use more than that for any wax and would especially try to find fragrances that are strong using 1 oz.

After all, it's about the money, for the most part.

[Camay]

"4. Wax weighs LESS than water (it floats on the surface of water); therefore a pound of wax will have a greater VOLUME than water (more fluid ounces) even though both weigh the same amount."

I'd like to make a correction to this: The DENSITY of wax is less than the density of water (that is why it floats). Weight is an extensive property (depends on how much you have) while density is an intensive property (doesn't matter how much you have, the density of a item is the same, assuming the pressure and temperature is constant).

Chemistry lesson over. Yep, I'm a chemist.

[Stella1952]

We began this thread addressing the topic of measuring FO load and some newer folks were confused between the different types of measure. This isn't about me personally being a paragon of accuracy - it's about explaining things to folks who are new. There are many exceptions to the rule, as we all know, but is pointing them out helpful to people who are struggling to understand the basic concept? At sea level, at normal atmospheric pressure, above water? :rolleyes2

Thanks for the lesson in DENSITY. We were just trying to struggle through volume and weight measurements for candlemaking.

[kandlekrazy]

"4. Wax weighs LESS than water (it floats on the surface of water); therefore a pound of wax will have a greater VOLUME than water (more fluid ounces) even though both weigh the same amount."

I'd like to make a correction to this: The DENSITY of wax is less than the density of water (that is why it floats). Weight is an extensive property (depends on how much you have) while density is an intensive property (doesn't matter how much you have, the density of a item is the same, assuming the pressure and temperature is constant).

Chemistry lesson over. Yep, I'm a chemist.

Thanks for stating this so simply. I've been teaching a couple of ladies and could never really get them to understand this (probably because I could never explain it as simply as you did!)...I'm going to print this out for them.

[Camay]

I think DENSITY is the basic underlying concept that people are misunderstanding. It relates mass to volume.

Everything we add to our candle making pot has its own density (mass/volume). This includes the FO. The density of one FO compared to another can be different. If you compare 1 fluid ounce of FO #1 to FO #2 they will be the same volume, but because they have different densities, you will not be adding the same amount (mass) of FO to your pot.

However, if you weigh 1 ounce of both FOs, you have the same amount. That's why using a scale is more accurate (which we are in total agreement about).

The differences in 1 ounce mass vs, 1 ounce liquid measure is probably not much, but when you scale up you could run into trouble.