Advanced soy ? again, sorry

[Jeana]

I'm still having trouble with the advanced soy throwing scent like I want it. Even after adding stearic and letting them cure.

Has anyone ever blended another wax with it other than stearic? I just don't like the look of regular soy on its own after being in the container awhile, it seems to get powdery and the colors fade.

Even some of my REALLY strong scents seem to just fade in this ADV soy. I am so sorry to bring this wax up again, I know it has been covered extensively. I'm just hoping people have been playing with it to iron some of these issues out.

Thanks so much:D

[topofmurrayhill]

Well I think once you're at the point of considering making a proprietary blend, maybe it's time to just test a different wax. Me, I ordered 10 lbs. of NatureWax C-3 to check out. Weak scent throw just isn't gonna cut it.

[Jeana]

I have tried a few of the other soys but like I said they don't have a nice look at all but they do have a better throw. I mix my waxes for my pillars and it works perfect. I was hoping people have experiemented with this wax more to get some throw out of it. I hear practically everyone saying the same thing. Oh well it was worth a shot to ask.

[islandgirl]

Well I think once you're at the point of considering making a proprietary blend, maybe it's time to just test a different wax. Me, I ordered 10 lbs. of NatureWax C-3 to check out. Weak scent throw just isn't gonna cut it.

Hey TOMH,

So you didn't care for the C-3.

Which scent was weak for you?

Just curious cuz I get a great throw from this wax....

[Rae Ann]

I've been using the new Advanced Soy and I really like it. I do mix mine with about 20% plain soy (no cottonseed) and 2% stearic. Most of the scents I've tried have at least a good throw and some are excellent. I don't like the look of plain soy either unless it's uncolored but most of my customers want color. The blend I've been using has very little frost (if any) and they set up so nicely.

[Jeana]

I tried to mix it with another wax at 5%. I'm back to wet spots now. What wax are you mixing it with? I still have some ecosoya cb 135. Guess I could try this.

[topofmurrayhill]

Hey TOMH,

So you didn't care for the C-3.

Which scent was weak for you?

Just curious cuz I get a great throw from this wax....

Sorry I wasn't clear. The weak throw is with the CBA, which is why I ordered some C-3 to try out. It hasn't arrived yet. I hear it throws better but doesn't look as good. What I like about both products is that they're 100% soy but it seems you can't get all the qualities you want in one wax. Maybe I should just mix them together and see what happens, LOL.

[Ellie1974]

I just scraped that wax..I ordered 20 lbs and even bought the high quality fragrance oils with nothing but a weak throw....I had 2 scents that actually threw great and that was all...I am moving on...lol..I loved the smooth tops and it was very easy to work with..But the scent throw just wasn't there..

[nay2120]

Ellie1974,

Youre refering to the Advanced blend, not the C-3, right??

I had been wanting to try the advanced blend, but really havent heard a lot of good things. Think I will stick with the C-3.

Renee

[topofmurrayhill]

Ellie, what do you think accounts for the 2 scents that throw well? Were they more compatible with the wax or were they particularly good throwers in general?

I hope you'll keep us posted on your exploits. I'll soon be testing CBA and C-3 side by side. I have yet to test CBA fully enough to come to a firm opinion, but I ordered some C-3 as a backup because I'm dismayed that so many peeps seem to be coming to a negative conclusion about CBA scent throw.

Thing is, aesthetics are important too and CBA looks pretty good. I find it tricky to weigh everything in the balance. Maybe it's worth looking for the scents that work.

[Jooniper]

I've been using the new Advanced Soy and I really like it. I do mix mine with about 20% plain soy (no cottonseed) and 2% stearic. Most of the scents I've tried have at least a good throw and some are excellent. I don't like the look of plain soy either unless it's uncolored but most of my customers want color. The blend I've been using has very little frost (if any) and they set up so nicely.

At what temp are you pouring this blend. So break it down for this simpleton. If I want two pounds of wax for candles....I would do what? Sorry it is late and I am tired but curious. I am playing around with this wax and the cold throw sucks but the hot throw in carrot cake is pretty awesome. Not so good in others. I love the way they look though!

[islandgirl]

I have seen on another suppliers board (BCN), that the Doneen is asking people which CBA they like better, the old version or the new.

The supplier said that they might be bringing back the old version in addition to, or in replace of the new CBA, since their is a demand for it???:rolleyes2

So all of you who use the new CBA might want to check this out..

[Henryk]

Great. Then we are back to wetspots.

This is not directed to anyone in particular - but I don't understand the people who complain. Why are they frustraiting themselves using it and then complaining? Simply use a straight soy or a soy/cottonseed blend add 3% BW and pour cool. If a wax doesn't perform the way you like - move on. As far as for throw, buy a few pounds of something (not a case!), try some FOs that you KNOW are good performers and if it doesn't work, you know its not for you.

Again, JMO - no attacks please.

[Gretchen]

I've been using the new CBA; actually the new and the old at the same time, not knowing it in the moment! Takl about pissed off! Calmer now!LOL!)

Anyway, the new CBA by itself won't burn; not for me, and with the same wicks I was using in the older version. I'm pouring a 16oz. apothacary jar with a CD16 wick (3 7/8 "), and a 10oz, tumbler with a CD12 (3"). Those wicks worked beautifully with the older version, not with the new. As suggested from this board I added 2% steric, and at first the burn was terrific; great flame, great throw, and talk about a long burn time! OMG! Like it was looking like my 70 hr. burn had the potential of bumping up to maybe as high as 90 hours! (That's good and bad, I know) Then about a third of the way into the candle the flame was just too hot and a tad too big (duh!) and the sides of the jar were getting sooty <(sp?). So, now what? I never used any type of additives before so adding the steric was new to me. I melted it in the microwave in a pyrex measuring cup, which took forever and even the pyrex got really hot. Adding the steric was a pain in the butt; I'll do it, but it really disrupted the 'flow' of how I work. Since I don't really understand the value of additives; well I understand that the steric will make this wax harder; how do I juggle the steric? My brain tells me that adding something to make the wax harder, would allow the wicks , I'm not sure how to explain my logic; it would have seemed to me that if anything, I would have had to bump the wick up with the addition of the steric. So, if any of you can guide me with the steric; do I go up or down? And what is the best way to melt it? You do melt it seperatly and then weight and add to the wax, right? Or can you weigh it dry and add it directly to the pouring pot? That would be so much easier, but I'm guessing the answer to that is no.

I liked the older CBA. The scent throw wasn't great the day after the pour, but curing solved that problem. The hot throw was fine. And frankly, no wet spots would be great, but they really didn't bother me, nor did they seem to bother any of my customers.

And finally, just my opinion but, I really wish they (meaning the manufacturers) would quit dicking around. If they're trying to improve on what they offer, that's great, but to send a wax out with obviously not enough testing being done prior, is ridiculous. In one years time this company has pulled one wax off the shelf before bringing out it's replacement, which left me high and dry; then the CBA comes out, and less than six months go by and they basically replace that! Then, to make matters worse, they screw up with their labling, putting the old lable on the new wax; leaves me with problems again, and now are saying they may bring the older version back? For crying out loud! Some of us are trying to make a living at this! Wonder how Jimmy-boy at ergo would feel if his next truck load came in different than his last?! Bet they'd call him first! I had no notice. Didn't know there was a new version until I came onto the board. Translation, didn't know I was screwed until after my delivery of 400lbs! Oh, and some of that shipment was new, and some was the old, mislabled! I have two roasters here, each about half full, and frankly, I have no idea wich wax is in them. Worse yet, it's highly possible that one or both of them have a little of both! Guess where that wax is headed!? When does it get to the point where, like Jimmy-boy, we can just pour candles, AND sleep at night?

Sorry for the rant.

Any advice about the steric would be greatly appreciated!

Gretchen

[Henryk]

Stearic melts at 150F. So, since you have to add your FO at ~170F anyway (actually NGI says 155F - but I go higher than that), just add the stearic right in with the unmelted soy flakes. (Using "pyrex type" glass in some microwaves at full power is dangerous - there have been reports on the soap dish archive forum that doing so could cause, and has caused, the glass to explode).

[Gretchen]

I can dump probably about 25# into my warmer at one time and I do. The wax is always ready, other than I turn the temp down at night to about 100, and back up in the morning to bring it up to about 180-190. That's why I was melting the steric in the microwave; I just ladle the wax into my pouring pots. With the wax at 180-190, could I just weight and add the steric dry to the pouring pot? And the steric that is now in my pyrex, and has hardened back to a solid, can I still use it?

Do you have a suggestion on which way I should go with the steric, up or down? I'm thinking up, right? It did solve the problem with the hiden sink holes and pockets, but like I said it is ultimatly burning too hot.

Gretchen

[Jeana]

Great. Then we are back to wetspots.

This is not directed to anyone in particular - but I don't understand the people who complain. Why are they frustraiting themselves using it and then complaining? Simply use a straight soy or a soy/cottonseed blend add 3% BW and pour cool. If a wax doesn't perform the way you like - move on. As far as for throw, buy a few pounds of something (not a case!), try some FOs that you KNOW are good performers and if it doesn't work, you know its not for you.

Again, JMO - no attacks please.

I did appologize in advance for bringing it up again - hehe

I tried beeswax in my pillars and I didn't really like it. So I assumed I wouldn't like it in my containers. I really didn't care for the 100% soys I used before. They had many characteristics that were unappealing. (Definitely not bashing other people's waxes. It's all personal preference)

The weird part about the scent in this wax - for me - is that it does fine the first few burns and then it disappears. So I thought I was doing fine when I decided to buy a bunch of this wax. Plus I like all the other characteristics of this wax and there is only one problem with it. It has alot going for it. If it can be fixed why not try.

I like to hear some of the problem solving strategies people come up with.

Gretchen,

why don't you use the double boiling technique rather than the pyrex in the micro, it seems much safer? After you get settled on the amount you want to use just melt it together in your melter. If you are putting in 25# and using 2% plop that in together.

I think you can use the previously melted stearic again.

[Henryk]

I can dump probably about 25# into my warmer at one time and I do. The wax is always ready, other than I turn the temp down at night to about 100, and back up in the morning to bring it up to about 180-190. That's why I was melting the steric in the microwave; I just ladle the wax into my pouring pots. With the wax at 180-190, could I just weight and add the steric dry to the pouring pot? And the steric that is now in my pyrex, and has hardened back to a solid, can I still use it?

Do you have a suggestion on which way I should go with the steric, up or down? I'm thinking up, right? It did solve the problem with the hiden sink holes and pockets, but like I said it is ultimatly burning too hot.

Gretchen

Sure you can add the stearic dry - the amount is so small, and if your wax is 180F anyway it should melt fine. Also I would just bust up the hardened stearic and reuse - now that may not melt so fast since its not shaved up like stearic but in clumps - but it'll probably melt fine - I just wouldn't dump like a 1/2 pound block of stearic in and expect it to melt unless the heat of the wax is kept up!

I have seen what you are describing BUT are you power burning these candles? If so, that could be the issue. IMO with ANY wax if you do that you may need to size DOWN. The same wick (any wick, any wax) is going to perform differently depending upon if you all-day marathon burn or just do normal "evening" type burns. Thats what I do with mine. Basically about 5 or 6 hours.

Unfortunately you also have this issue with mislabled wax etc. To me there is no difference between the old and the new with LX wicks - nor with adding that 2% stearic. I haven't used CDs for a long while so you have to take that into consideration. I assume you are trimming, have you switched vendors for wicks or are using different batches? I just got some new LX wicks in from a different vendor yesterday - even visually there are noticible differences in them - I too am hoping that they perform the same (or better). I should post a pic - you'd be surprised.

[Henryk]

Jeana you've nothing to to apologize for ! How were you doing the bw in the pillars - where you mixing soy pillar wax with bw? I personally didn't like it either. Then again, I'm not particular fond of soy pillar wax in general. Soy/paraffin works MUCH better for pillars/votives.

If you are sitting right next to the candles eventually you are not going to smell them. You are going to get sensitized to them. It happens with me all the time - I quite smelling them, then leave the house (someone else is there watching), I come back in and its a totally different experience. There is a post on the KY board about this some time back - on how people test. Its a VERY informative post actually. Anyway, not saying this is the case in your situation, but I'm sure it happens a lot.

[topofmurrayhill]

I can dump probably about 25# into my warmer at one time and I do. The wax is always ready, other than I turn the temp down at night to about 100, and back up in the morning to bring it up to about 180-190.

How do you prevent your wax from oxidizing, keeping it hot for this long? If you put some of it in a clear glass, and newly melted flakes in another, are they the same color?

[Jeana]

Jeana you've nothing to to apologize for ! How were you doing the bw in the pillars - where you mixing soy pillar wax with bw? I personally didn't like it either. Then again, I'm not particular fond of soy pillar wax in general. Soy/paraffin works MUCH better for pillars/votives.

If you are sitting right next to the candles eventually you are not going to smell them. You are going to get sensitized to them. It happens with me all the time - I quite smelling them, then leave the house (someone else is there watching), I come back in and its a totally different experience. There is a post on the KY board about this some time back - on how people test. Its a VERY informative post actually. Anyway, not saying this is the case in your situation, but I'm sure it happens a lot.

I tried putting 3% bw in ecosoya pb blend to make it prettier. The candles had very large pits internally and they cracked apart very easily. I am now doing ky pb with the eco pb. Ky is more translucent (so I can get deeper colors with less amounts of dye), holds scent much better, and softens the eco pb so it isn't so brittle. For me, the ky is too soft to use on its own. I swear the ky pb behaves and looks a lot like parafin. I asked them if they were positive if it is all vegetable and they said their supplier has assured them it is.

Anyway because ky holds scent really well I am running some tests with the advanced soy and 5%. Even though it is a pb I figured it is really soft so it may work. My first got some wet spots but the second didn't. And a 4oz tin litterally filled two large rooms with scent. If I find this really helps get the scent going I will have to endure wetspots, at least the colors will be pretty, the wax smooth, no frosting, and a good scent. Of course I have to test a lot more, but it may be a solution.

[Gretchen]

Nine times out of ten I pour all of it at one time. I did, however, forget to turn it down once, and yes, the color definatly changed. Usually, I fill it, bring it to temp over a few hours, pour all or almost all ofit, fill it back up, turn the temp way down, and start all over the next day. If I'm not pouring for a couple of days, I turn it off.

Not sure I like the idea of adding the steric directly to the warmer. At least not until I have this better worked out. By then, they'll probably change the wax again!

Gretchen

[Gretchen]

This has been bugging me all along; WHY do we have to go through all this mixing? I can understand having some basic additives like the steric, vyber, and I even half understand the beeswax as an additive (I don't really understand any of these as additives, but I sort of understand the the rational, given the fact that there are all the variables with color, scent, and wicks). But when I say mixing I more mean adding different waxes together like the KY and the CBA, or any of the possible combinations. Do you get what I mean? I mean, don't you think that candle making is complex enough? Why does it seem to be increasingly difficult to consistantly get the same results, from canlde #1, to your 100th candle? I'm not critisizing anyone who is mixing waxes; we're all in the same boat basically, just trying to produce the best candle we can given what we are all looking to acheive as the end result. Since I mentioned Ergo before in my ranting, I'll use them as an example again; do you really think that guy was busy mixing different waxes together in his early days? Maybe, but he surely isn't going to all that trouble now. It just seems unreasonable to me that beyond a basic additive, and I'm not really that in favor of adding those either but will since it seems I have to, it has to be so incredibley difficult to acheive the grand final result we're looking for. This is candle making not rocket science. It should be just a tad easier.

OK; I'm done. SOrry but I just had to!

Gretchen

[topofmurrayhill]

Nine times out of ten I pour all of it at one time. I did, however, forget to turn it down once, and yes, the color definatly changed. Usually, I fill it, bring it to temp over a few hours, pour all or almost all ofit, fill it back up, turn the temp way down, and start all over the next day. If I'm not pouring for a couple of days, I turn it off.

Personally I wouldn't do that. Soy wax is basically a specialized form of margarine and I believe it gets rancid from reacting with oxygen in the air. Higher temps would greatly accelerate that, so you may be shortening the shelf life of your candles. Even paraffin, which is a pretty inert substance, oxidizes when kept at high temps for a while.

It's interesting by the way that we're talking about adding stearic as though it's a big deal to introduce this into the wax. It's come to my attention that when you hydrogenate animal or vegetable fats, one of the things you get is stearic acid. The only analysis I've seen of what's in soy wax was provided as part of the Iowa State study comparing different waxes. The soy that was used in that study was more than 1/3 composed of stearic acid!

[Jeana]

I'm lost with Jimmy and Ergo. Is that a store by you? I think most people don't mix waxes. Plenty of candle makers are happily pouring candles without mixing. Mixing doesn't bother me for a few reasons. First my formula will be my own recipe, it kind of adds to the feeling of creativity. Second I get exactly what I am looking for (hopefully). Last I have a side of me that loves to research things.

How many waxes have you tried? Maybe you could switch to one that you don't have to add anything.