Please Help! I think I'm in big trouble

[heavenbound]

I just "sold" my first batch of candles and I think I may have jumped the gun. I have been making small batches using soy and essential oils and I love them. I put them up for sale on my web site, along with a few different scents of soy tarts, and I got a call from a lady who's opening up a gift shop and wanted to buy 75 candles. Only she wants the 16 oz. size and I've never made those. Of course, having a "can-do" attitude, I told her I could get them to her in 2 weeks. Ahhhh! I don't have time to test. I really need some expert advice. I'm using MillCreek Soy Wax 125, 1 oz. of FO/EO blend pp, and 2-6 drops of liquid dye in an 18 oz. Victorian Apothecary Jar. I ordered some 62-52-18C wicks, but I'm not sure if that's exactly what I need. Can anyone give me some wisdom on the best wick to try? And how do you get those wicks down into those jars? I will only have about 4 days once all my supplies arrive before I have to ship. Oh, geez, I really am in trouble, aren't I??? Any advice will be most welcome. :embarasse

[Candle Man]

Yep, you are jumping the gun, testing takes weeks to months to perfect. If you commit and send candles you have most likely lost that customer for life. You should test all your candles and this order is way to short of a time.

You have to first test for the right size wick, which can take weeks to months. Then once you get the right wick you have to test for hot throw, after you let the candle sit and cure for at least 2 weeks, because you are using soy. Then while you are testing for hot throw you should also be testing for burn. Do you get a good melt pool depth, melt pool rate? Is there any hang-up? Does the wick soot further down in the jar? Then you need to keep some candles from that batch and test 6 months and 1 year later and see if you get the same test results as you got on your first tests.

[Erin Lea]

Hey heaven...well, first I must say that I agree with Candleman on the absolute need to test. Second, be aware that this thread could turn into some scaryness! Third, I have no experience with your jar so I cannot comment on what wick you should try first but girl I do wish you luck. That is a serious order to get done and done well in 4 days. Perhaps you should sell this order to a more experienced person..?

Yikes!:whistle:

ETA: The wick question---use a hollowed out Bic pen (take out the writing implement) and use it to stick the wick in and then you can stick it down in the jar with a wick stick-um.

[Candlebuddy]

The way I see it ... you have 3 choices:

1) Explain your situation so the woman can find another candle supplier,

2) Pass this customer on to someone else,

3) See if you can buy wholesale from someone and have them dropship for you.

IMO, however you choose to handle this ... you'll need to speak with the woman.

[roxi4112000]

heavenbound I agree with everybody else, you must test, so the best thing is to tell her the truth, you wouldnt want to send her anything but the best, so find someone else to buy wholesale from while you test which should take more than weeks, and then test like crazy and one nose is not enough, have your friends and family test as well, you poor thing;) just take a breath. heck ive been making candles for 3 years now and i havnt even tested a 16 oz cuz im so busy testing more fos in my 8 oz.

[erinmfritz]

I agree with the comments above.

Maybe this will help with your wick testing........

http://server.com/WebApps/db-view.cgi?id=71493

Good luck!

[so-soy]

I just "sold" my first batch of candles and I think I may have jumped the gun. Ahhhh! I don't have time to test. :embarasse

If you want expert advice, here's some, WALK AWAY FROM THE WAX MELTER, AND AWAY FROM CANDLEMAKING PERMANENTLY! In my opinion if you even think of pouring and selling without testing, you do not belong in the candlemaking world! The best thing to do now is call this woman and tell her the truth. I'm sorry but what is wrong with some of you people? Harsh yes, but how else do you get through to these peoples?? My god! *faint*

[mptex]

Your only option, rational option I mean, is to call her and tell her that since you do not usually use that size jar you need another week to test. Then, You will have to pour three testers at a time of each scent she bought(3 different wicks), burn them, pick the best of the three, pour two more testers of that one with the same size wick, and then test them to make sure your wicking is right...then pour her candles. You have time to do it in a week, but you will have to keep good notes and stay on top of it daily.

I don't know the diameter of that jar, so we need that to give you wicking suggestions.

You honestly should have turned down that order or asked for a month. If someone asks me to do a special jar size or scent, I always ask for a month to test, and I have been making candles for a LONG time, so have a pretty good idea where to start.

You don't screw around with candles...you need to test thoroughly, and if you haven't, you shouldn't sell them.

JMO>

[geekrunner]

I'm not going to adminish you about testing, since everyone else has (and some more harshly than others :undecided ). I can understand and appreciate your enthusiasm, I went through a similar experience during Christmas of '05, but had a month to test four FOs in two jars. I was up late every night and at it early in the morning testing, but I got 'er done.

Others have given you the best advice on this particular situation, but IN GENERAL you won't be able to use the 62-52-18z wick in that jar in MC soy 415, the zincs don't burn hot enough to single wick that size of jar unless you double wick with 44-20-18 or 44-24-18. That jar is probably 3 1/2 to 4 inches corner to corner, and if you want to single wick you'll need to start out with either HTP1312, HTP1212, or HTP126. The thing about that jar is that it tapers downward, so if you wick it to clean the jar early, it will be overwicked when it burns down beyond halfway. You'll need to wick it down some, so it leaves a little hangup that will erode as it burns down lower in the jar. This will take you quite a bit of time to test properly, at least a couple months.

But look at this as a learning experience. We all have made mistakes and decisions we shouldn't have, so don't be so hard on yourself. Just correct the situation, and move on to other adventures.

However, I cannot let you go unpunished. Therefore, fifty lashes with a wet noodle!

geek

[geekrunner]

Since I just noticed you are a noob, I must also let you know that noobs taste like chicken

geek

[Sally]

MMMM chicken & noodles, yummy.

Heavenbound, I think you need to contact the buyer & "buy" yourself time to do all the testing needed & as recommended by the other posters. But don't just give yourself a little time, in my experience whenever I try to rush things something always goes wrong & it ends up taking longer or worse still just doesn't work.

Sally.

[ragnarock47]

Another option you have when you call your customer is too offer them the candles you do have a tight formula for. Maybe cut your price a bit to make it attractive to the buyer and let them know by the time their next order comes around, you'll have time to find the formula needed for exactly what they want.

So there are a few options for you:

Ask if you can have some more time

Ask if you can give them the size candles you know

Do what you need to do to keep this customer without working for nothing. Keep in mind, if you break even on this first order using the formula's you know and lowering the price this one time, you still most likely won't be working for nothing... you'll get future orders.

It would be important to me to have product in their shop for their opening.

When you speak with them, be sincere but don't be an introvert, don't keep apologizing, DON'T LOSE CONTROL of the conversation, keep the conversation up beat, and above all, make sure they know you will do what you can to make this happen. If things don't work out, so be it..a learning experience and that has its pluses. Of course not as good as cash, but possibly more valuable

Be positive and good luck

As for that one reply, don't pay it any mind. There is a lot of skill in candle making as well as how to be tactful. I am tactful, but haven't made a good candle yet...for some it's vice versa

[Lightning Bug]

All said and done, I think you should call her, explain you are really sorry you jumped the gun and can't deliver that order as it will just take more testing time. It sounds like you have tested the candles you have for sale on your site, right? Then, why not offer her those at a very reduced price so that she feels satisfied and you still get a sale with less profit, but may keep the customer? Just an idea. Beth

[stacien]

The worse part is you are working with EO's which need extra testing. They consume a larger wick. Geek's right 62's wouldn't even make a dent. I would step over to CD's about 2 size 14-16 depending on how much EO you use. Most likely 16. They are great with MC 125 and that size might cover a square perimeter with a decent melt pool. But yes, you still have to test those out.

I have the same problem with jumping ahead. I made 150 candle tins for a wedding. My husband had the nerve to volunteer my new craft for his brothers wedding. It turned out beautifully, luckily I have a gift with wedding and party favors. But I myself don't have enough confidence to sell yet. Bath and Body yes, but candles are scary because you never know when one will go bad. And I hate tunneling.

OOH! Sally I wanna visit your homeland.

[Erin Lea]

Another option you have when you call your customer is too offer them the candles you do have a tight formula for. Maybe cut your price a bit to make it attractive to the buyer and let them know by the time their next order comes around, you'll have time to find the formula needed for exactly what they want.

So there are a few options for you:

Ask if you can have some more time

Ask if you can give them the size candles you know

Do what you need to do to keep this customer without working for nothing. Keep in mind, if you break even on this first order using the formula's you know and lowering the price this one time, you still most likely won't be working for nothing... you'll get future orders.

It would be important to me to have product in their shop for their opening.

When you speak with them, be sincere but don't be an introvert, don't keep apologizing, DON'T LOSE CONTROL of the conversation, keep the conversation up beat, and above all, make sure they know you will do what you can to make this happen. If things don't work out, so be it..a learning experience and that has its pluses. Of course not as good as cash, but possibly more valuable

Be positive and good luck

As for that one reply, don't pay it any mind. There is a lot of skill in candle making as well as how to be tactful. I am tactful, but haven't made a good candle yet...for some it's vice versa

Fantastic advice!

[heavenbound]

Thanks, people. I could barely read those first several posts through my tears:embarasse and I feel just awful. I have contacted my buyer and asked for an extra month to test for this size jar. I really, REALLY appreciate your words of encouragement and helpful advice. I have tested a few candles, but only small, votive size ones. I mostly sell essential oil products and thought it would be fun to add some EO tarts to my line. My tarts are wonderful, so I made some candles. That's how I got going. Only then did I go tra-la-la-ing through the web looking for great candle-making ideas. Little did I know I had stepped into a minefield!! I appreciate all the experience you bring and am glad to hear that others have had similar experiences and lived to tell about it.

[Erin Lea]

Aaaww.... Here, this emoticon always makes me feel better...

:cakegirl:

Don't worry. Everything happens for a reason. How did the buyer respond to your request?

[roxi4112000]

:awww: im glad you did the right thing in asking for help, im sorry that some people on this board just want to be petty and start a fight but there are some of us who really want to help. good luck:highfive:

[gerrie]

I think most of us started making candles with no real idea of the work, time and money involved. I started because I wanted to make myself some different colored tealights, I'm lucky I didn't burn the house down with those tealights!

But it was a very good learning experience for me of just how much testing it really does take to make a good SAFE candle. Just take it easy....test, test, and then test some more. Each time you get a few fO's tested, then offer them for sale and move on to a few more FO's. When those are done offer them for sale also. Each month you should be able to offer a few more FO's to your line and pretty soon you'll have you're whole line tested. In the meantime your wholesale account will have had a chance to start building her stock. A lot of chandlers start with a very small line and then add to it as they grow. Good luck, and I'm glad you asked for advice. Don't be so hard on yourself, you knew you jumped the gun, just got excited, and that's just normal.

Sorry I can't help with the wicks, don't use that jar or that type of wax.

[Kelly]

Remember just because it took someone else a month (or more, or less) doesn't mean it will take you a month (or more, or less), there is a lot of information available to help with your testing. You can eliminate days of testing just by listening (reading) what worked for others and what didn't work and remember the search feature here at CT is amazing.

Do your research, give yourself the time and listen to the good advice on this board (Bravo Ragnarock47). Do let us know what your customer has said. I hope that they were understanding.

Good luck!

Kelly

[Vanmala]

Thanks, people. I could barely read those first several posts through my tears:embarasse and I feel just awful. I have contacted my buyer and asked for an extra month to test for this size jar. I really, REALLY appreciate your words of encouragement and helpful advice. I have tested a few candles, but only small, votive size ones. I mostly sell essential oil products and thought it would be fun to add some EO tarts to my line. My tarts are wonderful, so I made some candles. That's how I got going. Only then did I go tra-la-la-ing through the web looking for great candle-making ideas. Little did I know I had stepped into a minefield!! I appreciate all the experience you bring and am glad to hear that others have had similar experiences and lived to tell about it.

You have a wonderful attitude! Good you can accept advice from all the wonderful and proud chandlers in this group. They won't steer you wrong and it's great you found Candle Tech.

I hope you have a successful business

[geekrunner]

:awww: im glad you did the right thing in asking for help, im sorry that some people on this board just want to be petty and start a fight but there are some of us who really want to help. good luck:highfive:

I wasn't trying to characterize anyone's advice as being petty or wanting to pick a fight, but I thought that telling someone, even a noob, to just give up making candles because of a mistake in judgement was a little over the top. It's not like heavenbound was trying to get all the collective wisdom from this board spoon-fed to her, like some previous noobs have tried. She was just wanting to get some advice on wicking. We have chewed up and spit out noobs that definitely needed it (and had lots of fun doing it), but heavenbound neither warrants it nor deserves it. I think most of us saw that and responded appropriately.

geek

[stacien]

Geek, don't worry about it. We know you are a good guy. A lot of people who haven't posted or been on this board as long don't know you are a mad scientist when it comes to your candles and you take testing seriously. I do agree though. They also don't undrstand your sense of humor behind your noobie comment. I have been here long enough to see some of the ridiculous things new members have expected out of candle making right away and gasped myself. We are our own worst critics as I have said. But we are talking about things we set on fire and sell to people. When any candle we make leaves our hands in a sale it makes us liable. So it has to leave our hands perfect. This is soy wax we are talking about. It is unstable most of the time to work with.

Trust me she was gently handled. I have seen some poor newbies just hung on this site for wanting to sell only after making a few.

[candlebean]

Hi Heaven,

Testing used to take me forever too, but someone (I don't remember who) gave me a great tip. When I used to get a new scent, I would make one of each size and would start with the wick I thought should work best, then it wouldn't work, so I'd make another one with a different size wick and test that one, etc. Well, this gets really time consuming and costly as I'm sure most of you know.

What I do now, is I make a wickless candle for whichever size/scent I want to test. Once the candle is completely cooled, I cut about 2 inches off of a tabbed wick. Then I take my heat gun and melt the top of my candle enough so that I can make a hole with a screwdriver. I bend the bottom part of my wick so it has a little girth to it and won't fall down the hole, and put it in the hole I made. I then zap the top of my candle again to quickly remelt the wax around my wick. Then I'll light my candle and let it burn for 2-3 hours and see what I get. If the melt pool doesn't go all the way to the edges, I know to wick up, or if it smokes too much, I know to wick down, etc. If the wick you have in there doesn't work, just blow it out, pluck out the wick, cut another 2 inch piece from a different size, stick it in the hole, and start again.

I hope this makes sense - it really does save a lot of time and money on supplies - if you need help, please feel free to PM me. I don't know anything about your type of wax/jar combos, but I'll do whatever I can to answer your questions.

[CareBear]

I have contacted my buyer and asked for an extra month to test for this size jar.

What was the reaction to your request? BTW: You obviously did the right thing, and in the long run have probably preserved rather than ruining a business relationship.