slyfoxy46628 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I've been seeing people post about insurance and was wondering if there were any way to get out of paying for insurance. This is my idea. I might have a lawyer draw up some kind of paperwork that says the party that is buying the candle waives the right to sue me if they do something stupid with my candles or something like that. How do you guys think that sounds? Would you still buy from me? I need some input here. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scentlady Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 No one is going to admit they did something stupid and I'm sure that you would still be sued. And then you would have to make each customer sign this waiver as proof they saw it. Who has time for that at a busy craft show or candle party. And I don't think people would want to sign it. You would lose some customers or people would sign fake names, etc. I would carry the insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillary Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Definitly a creative way to handle it. I have to say though, as a consumer, I'd be very leary of anyone that tried to make me sign away my rights just to buy thier product. I would wonder what that candle is made of if the candle maker is that worried about a lawsuit. Having said that, I can see why you would explore this option. It's really scary to think what people will do with your candle in there homes, and to think that they would hold you -us- responsible! But I think the waiver would scare them before they even had chance to light the candle. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janette Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 A waiver doesn't necessarily cover you anyway. Maybe you should just move up here to Canada. Here you actually have to be negligent to get sued. I feel for all you Americans who can get sued if someone sneezes. Get the insurance it is really the simplest solution.Janette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royster13 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Here I have to put on my former insurance adjuster cap.....Anyone can be sued for almost any reason (Janette even in Canada).....In some jurisdictions there may be some sort of procedure the suer has to go through before they can proceed....Almost like a preliminary hearing or grand jury....This does not decide the case it just narrows them down.....In Canada the standard for a suer winning is a case is sometimes higher and in most cases the sued has to be negligent....But even if you win it can cost you a small fortune....Lawyers do not work for free and in the complex court system it is awful hard to defend yourself.....By all means it is useful to get a waiver (if someone is silly enough to sign it)....But most often a waiver is just printed on the back of your invoice....For commerical accounts some will sign a "Hold Harmless" agreement which does not prevent you from getting sued, however, it does make your commercial client stand in your place for defence and claim costs...Sometimes a "hold harmless" clause can be in your terms of business and sometimes it is helpful in getting rid of claim....My advice to everyone is no matter how "perfect" you think you are get liability insurance.....The only exception to this suggestion is if you have so much money that spending some of it will not matter....Sorrry this was so long but insurance is not that simple........RCS....PS....I am on the board of a liability insurance company that is owned by municipalities in BC (www.miabc.org) and I have seen some pretty silly claims that have cost us 10s of thousands of dollars to win.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfoxy46628 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 It's a good thing I put this question out there before I really did it. Thanks for all of your advice everybody! I will definately think about this situation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfoxy46628 Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Oh, I have one more question concerning insurance. Do you have to have a business license to get the insurance or a tax id number or anything like that? So far I'm not claiming it on my taxes because I've only sold 3 candles but I look to getting bigger and better but for right now do I have to have those things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royster13 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have never been asked for a business licence to get insurance so at least in this area it does not seem to be the norm....RCS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Courts/juries are totally unpredictable....like McDonald's getting sued for millions cause some klutz spilled a cup of coffee in their lap; burgler sues & wins big $ from drug store cause he fell thru the roof while attempting to break in.CYA - buy insurance....it is tax deductible as a business expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well there really is no "Shortcut" out of insurance. If you are serious enough to sell, then you better be serious enough to be legit. Is it really worth it to you to take shortcuts? The thing is, a waiver is going to 1. not do a damn bit of good. 2. Going to make customers shy away since they have to sign a waiver. You are almost saying "My stuff is dangerous to burn so I have to protect myself. The purpose of insurance is to provide protection to you in the case of manufacturers negligence. So if the customer leaves their candle burning for 24 hours straight and something happens to it, chances are you are not going to foot the bill. That is where a good attorney comes in. I have yet to hear of a candlemaker sued out of house and home because of the customers stupidity. That is why THEY have insurance. Now that being said. If they had your candle burning for an hour, and it was completely liquefied, with a jar extremely hot on one side due to the fact that you have an over sized wick and it is leaning to one side, well then no "waiver" is going to protect you anyway if that jar creates a fire. The customer has the burden of proof, to show that you where the cause of it. And if they do, your screwed. My advice, don't take the easy way out, get insurance. Honestly, if you have to figure out ways to worm out of getting insurance, you really have no business selling at all. JMO though. GL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanglow Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Courts/juries are totally unpredictable....like McDonald's getting sued for millions cause some klutz spilled a cup of coffee in their lap; burgler sues & wins big $ from drug store cause he fell thru the roof while attempting to break in.CYA - buy insurance....it is tax deductible as a business expense.Man this bugs me.Because then there's me. On vacation with dh 3 years ago for a quiet little romantic getaway. We rented a cabin in the Smoky Mountains that was only 4 months old. It was beautiful with 2 decks overlooking the mountains. L o n g story short.... we lit the grill on the upper deck, dh stepped inside to grab us some drinks and that's when the deck collapsed and I went falling 40 ft. down and was burrried under rubble from 2 decks and a hot tub. I landed on charcoal (ouch). 6 or 7 (lost count) surgeries later, including skin grafts, I'm doing just fine (will never go on another balcony but physically I'm ok). The builer admitted at the trial that the deck was built negligently. Unfortunately though, his insurance company dropped him AFTER telling him to clear away the evidence (that part wasn't admissable in court and he has it recorded). Anyway, I'm in the hospital on morphine and not able to move while they are already trying to cover themselves and clear everything out. I'm talking in circles now. Bottom line is that I'll be lucky if I ever see a dime from him. Almost 100,000 in medical bills. Would I offend anyone if I said that I was a little bitter towards insurance companies?Anyway, lesson here is that even if you have insurance (which you should) please make sure that you notify them ANY time you make any type of change with your business. That's what happened to the builder... he made some changes and I truly believe that he wasn't trying to hide anything... just thought he was covered and all was fine. Not so much.Don't get me wrong here. It's been a long road but one I am truly grateful to still be here to travel . I honestly feel blessed to be alive.It was candle making that kept me sane after the accident... well, after I was able to get out of bed again anyway!Sorry for rambling. But thanks if you "listened". It felt good. Sometimes these insurance threads can get to me just a bit Jenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfoxy46628 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Jenn-I'm glad you're still travelling too! Thanks for that eye opening post! I think I will get insurance. I was just wondering about the waiver is all. I spoke to the lawyer my sister works for yesterday and he said to get insurance too so I will be shopping around. Anyone know of good insurance? Thanks all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dallas_Texas_Dean Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Not having Insurance is for gamblers....that is just the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoopie Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Your in MI so go with Benchmark. Very affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfoxy46628 Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Is the insurance that you have purchased general liability or umbrella insurance? I have no idea what kind to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillgunter Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I dont think i would buy a candle from someone if I had to sign something like that. You would have to have them sign it. I would be very scared off, thinking the product may be dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royster13 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Most often you need a CGL (Commercial General Liability) policy.....Not sure what the market is like in the US, however, in Canada you can get a small package policy that includes the CGL and other coverages....You also need to get an endorsement on your homeowners or renters insurance to cover commerical use of your home....Under the typical homeowners policy if you have a fire (or other claim) and have a business on the premises, the loss is excluded....And do not get the idea you can claim it as a "hobby"....If you are generating revenue (profit or loss) you are in business....RCS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfoxy46628 Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 So all of you have it included on your homeowners insurance also? With all of the insurance you have to have and all the other stuff you have to go through it doesn't sound worth it to even make the candles. I'll have to give this some thought. Although I love making the candles it just sounds like a lot of crap you have to go through just to sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanglow Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 So all of you have it included on your homeowners insurance also? With all of the insurance you have to have and all the other stuff you have to go through it doesn't sound worth it to even make the candles. I'll have to give this some thought. Although I love making the candles it just sounds like a lot of crap you have to go through just to sell them.It's worth it. You should carry insurance no matter what type of business you're in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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