GL 70/30 & Heat

[topofmurrayhill]

Now that it's summer, does anyone have an impression of how this wax handles the heat? At the moment I'm looking at a small sample that was poured into a votive glass. The temperature is just under 85 and there are oil droplets on the surface. No FO in this sample.

[greenleaf]

Hey Top - we haven't noticed anything in our warehouse where it typically stays around 85. However, we have received word from some of our customers that their slabs are arriving pretty soft after being in the UPS truck for a while. We are now sealing both ends of the bag that holds the slab so there will be no potential loss of product.

Since the 70/30 has what I consider to be a lower meltpoint (about 130) - I would have to think precautions to keep any finished candles as cool as possible during shipment would be most recommended.

HTH

[topofmurrayhill]

Hey Brenda.

130 MP doesn't seem unusually low. All the products that come to mind have a drop melt around that or lower. But the question isn't about softening of the wax.

I have a small sample poured without FO. When the room gets warm it has oil droplets on the surface. When the room cools down the oil is reabsorbed. I've watched it happen multiple times. Are you saying that you've never seen or heard of this? Since you've probably made many candles and done all the usual testing of the wax, what have you determined about its shipping qualities and resistance to oil migration due to heat?

There's one other thing I'm curious about, in terms of how parasoy blends are represented. Since you call it 70/30, does that ratio represent the entire weight of the wax or only certain ingredients? In other words, if I weigh out a 10 lb. quantity of this wax, are you warranting that 7 lbs. of that is soybean oil in some form?

[greenleaf]

I just view 130MP as low when sitting in the UPS trucks and it is having a tendency to soften up - I was sharing what some of our customers have experienced at this point. In slab form, we do not see any oil in the wax migrate to the surface in our warehouse. To me - this would represent a candle with no oil in it.

We are not doubting what you are seeing or experiencing - just trying to let you know what our own experience has been. Yes - we have made many candles and tested all of our FO's with this wax. Depending on the % of FO, we have seen some migrate to the top when it gets warm from being in our warehouse - which is where they tend to stay at that temp all the time. As noted, our warehouse is usually around 80-85, especially during the day. (Our A/C can only combat N. Texas summer heat to a point).

To this point though - we have not had any reports from other customers about FO migrating to the top. I don't know if this is because they are still testing and haven't put them out at outdoor shows or what they may be doing. I can go to our board and ask and let you know what they are saying if you would like.

70/30 stands for the percentage of ingredients. Yes, we are representing that in a 10 lb slab - 70% (7 lbs) is soybean oil in some form.

We appreciate the chance to answer your questions. If I can't, then I can always go see what the manufacturer says

Thanks again,

[The_Dallas_Texas_Dean]

OK...I am getting confused here (which is nothing new).

Are we talking about FO seepage and migrating to the top of the wax or are we talking about the wax itself sweating absent any FO?

[topofmurrayhill]

Are we talking about FO seepage and migrating to the top of the wax or are we talking about the wax itself sweating absent any FO?

My sample of the wax is sweating absent any FO whatsoever. I have a very small container poured without FO or dye. Seems to start doing that somewhere between 80 and 85 degrees.

[greenleaf]

Hi Top,

OK - I have talked to the manufacturer. They say that it is probably just the heat causing this and since it is re-absorbed that it shouldn't present any issues. The wax is really soft at the requests of their customers and due to this softness the oil may bead up occassionally.

HTH

[topofmurrayhill]

They say that it is probably just the heat causing this and since it is re-absorbed that it shouldn't present any issues. The wax is really soft at the requests of their customers and due to this softness the oil may bead up occassionally.

Yup that's what I described. So I guess they're saying it's not unusual.

If my sample is typical, it could commonly happen to candles in people's homes. Even without FO, apparently the temperature would just have to stay above 80 long enough for the candle to warm up. Then the surface would be covered in beads of sweat.

To suggest this shouldn't present any issues seems like an awfully optimistic judgment on the manufacturer's part. I think liquid seeping from the surface of a candle is a cosmetic issue at the least. If it happens under fairly ordinary conditions you could call it a quality issue.

It doesn't bode well for shipping in the summer either.

[greenleaf]

Top - that is not what I said - they said it was possible because of the softness. That doesn't mean it is usual. As I stated before, we have not had any complaints about this problem until now and we are shipping wax on a daily basis. I went to the manufacturer and asked them if this could be happening and if they were getting anyone else asking about it. They have not heard anything about this until I called.

I'm sorry you are experiencing this issue as this is not normal for us or for the 70/30. We stand behind our products 100% and if you not satisfied then just send me an email and we will take care of you. Just let me know.

Thanks

[topofmurrayhill]

Sorry Brenda, I just had trouble sorting out what you were trying to say. My original post simply inquired as to whether anyone else had seen this. It's great if you want to chime in with an explanation. I take it you believe my sample is atypical and that could be.

As for the softness of the wax, I think the oil is actually in there to make it that way. Apparently it can sweat out sometimes. I bet that harder batch you got is less prone to do it.

I must say I was suprised and disappointed to see that you're one of those folks who uses overblown claims and paraffin bashing to sell soy candles. I didn't think you were the sort to go in for that BS. Do you think it's professional for a supplier with paraffin using customers to have the sort of content up that I saw on your nothingbutcandles.com site? Do you actually believe that paraffin emits toxic fumes, and that we import oil to make candle wax, and that you sell "healthy candles"?

[Di_in_AZ]

I must say I was suprised and disappointed to see that you're one of those folks who uses overblown claims and paraffin bashing to sell soy candles. I didn't think you were the sort to go in for that BS. Do you think it's professional for a supplier with paraffin using customers to have the sort of content up that I saw on your nothingbutcandles.com site? Do you actually believe that paraffin emits toxic fumes, and that we import oil to make candle wax, and that you sell "healthy candles"?

That site contains some untruths. The EPA has not stated that there are "significant" levels of toxins in paraffin candles. Most have been equated to an amount less than was present in one cigarette compared to the content in a room where 30 candles were burned for three hours. That is not significant.

It is untrue and alot of miscontruing the soy/paraffin products is silly. Most of the toxins found to burn in paraffin came from the fragrance oils--which are also in soy candles. The worst thing you can tell an asthmatic is that burning a soy candle is good. They are still exposed to the fragrance oils which are toxic. People need to start getting on a healthy kick campaign against the FO industry--there's your toxins!

What blows my mind is these people who smoke, have heaters in the homes, drive cars and get exposed to tons of toxins and soots, and they worry about a candle that has less than a cigarette. Marketing ploy? I think so.

The facts on this were posted on another thread regarding the EPA in the business section.

[greenleaf]

I won't get dragged into this debate by anyone. We stand by our beliefs as candlemakers. We did our own research into the statements on our candle site to believe them and post them - including finding the EPA report and reading it. If you wish to discuss this then feel free to call me.

Candlemaking and Candle Supply Business are two different businesses with 2 different needs. As a supplier, we carry the products that are requested by our customers and support them to the best of our abilities in their candlemaking efforts - not matter which wax it may involve.

I believe that I have answered all of our product related questions to the best of my ability that are contained in this thread and will now be dropping out of any responses to this thread.

I appreciate your questions and will be looking to see if I can be of assistance with you, or anyone else, who may need it with our products.

Thanks

(P.S. - Just so everyone knows - we are NOT in any competition with you as a candle maker. We were candlemakers before we became a supplier and we have private label customers.

We no longer proactively go after that business - we support the existing customers we had gotten so that we don't leave them hanging. They also help support the growth of our supply business by helping cover expenses in our facility. It's this candlemaking expertise that we bring to help our supply customers.)

[funnygirl]

I have to say that threads like this really give you a good idea of the kind of person (supplier) you are dealing with. Some people are just naturally defensive by nature. You cant give them an answer that will make them happy. Seems that GL has done their best to answer the question that was asked, and is willing to do anything and everything to make their customers happy. I for one appreciate a professional attitude, and theirs cant be beat. You just cant please everyone, but its nice to find at least one supplier that tries.

[topofmurrayhill]

Seems that GL has done their best to answer the question that was asked, and is willing to do anything and everything to make their customers happy. I for one appreciate a professional attitude, and theirs cant be beat. You just cant please everyone, but its nice to find at least one supplier that tries.

I think you're right about Greenleaf. You can't knock the customer service. But the flip side of supplier participation in this independent message board is not being able to discuss a product without the supplier jumping in to spin things or make it all into customer support or PR issue. If I wanted to ask if anyone ever noticed EcoSoya CB-Advanced sweat on a warm day at least I could do it in peace.

[LadyBugCandles]

I personally appreciate having the supplier here on this board giving good customer service.

This has nothing to do with PR. You asked a question, and the most able bodied person responded...what more do you want?

You got your question asked and answered in peace, you're the one who got aggressive. From what I've read, you've not done much on this board in the way of peace.

JMO!

[topofmurrayhill]

I personally appreciate having the supplier here on this board giving good customer service.

Sure, but after an orgy of free advertising, sometimes a supplier should be happy and know when to butt out.

[AngelaVA]

Sure, but after an orgy of free advertising, sometimes a supplier should be happy and know when to butt out.

I have to agree. I personally find it extremely irritating to not be able to freely express my disatisfaction with a suppliers product. GL has great customer service, but when I think Fig Dolce smells crappy, I want to be able to say so without having the supplier come and argue with me. I would much rather that this be a neutral forum. If I have a question for any supplier, I know how to pick up the phone. Just my two cents.

[dcroome2005]

I have to agree. I personally find it extremely irritating to not be able to freely express my disatisfaction with a suppliers product. GL has great customer service, but when I think Fig Dolce smells crappy, I want to be able to say so without having the supplier come and argue with me. I would much rather that this be a neutral forum. If I have a question for any supplier, I know how to pick up the phone. Just my two cents.

Angela, I am not fond of this scent either. I couldn't stand it when I first smelled it but I will be darn if my customers are now asking for this scent. Actually, I like it better in wax and it has grown on me a little. I think you have every right to state your opinions on a certain product. I don't think GL was out of line on responding to Top's question. I know that I personally went on GL and and stated how I couldn't stand Fig Dolce and she didn't once argue with me on it. How come our customers do this to us?? They make us pour scents we don't like ??? LOL

[LadyBugCandles]

Sure, but after an orgy of free advertising, sometimes a supplier should be happy and know when to butt out.

What a joke! She would have stated the facts and butted out, had you not brought up her personal affairs, and tried to question her on them.

Greenleaf does not need free advertising, their products, integrity, professionalism, and customer service is all they need.

I have personally stated that I don't like certain FO's from them, not my taste, but I've never been argued with about it. I can't possibly imagine anyone from GL arguing with anyone about anything. If you don't like them, don't use them, move on.

There are many other suppliers on this board who do tend to step in from time to time when the quality of their product is in question, she's not alone by any means.

I also agree that Top, you seem to be a "teacher" not a doer. Although, I have to admit that you do have a wealth of information, but the manner in which you supply it is often uncalled for.

Ok, that being said, I'm off to actually MAKE some candles with Greenleaf's excellent products! Have a good one!

[funnygirl]

It didnt appear to me that GL was "butting in". It came across to me that they were concerned about you personally, and the problem you were haveing. I read that they even said that if you would like, call them and they would take care of you. I do understand what you mean about not feeling like you can post an opinion, but you werent stating an opinion, you were asking a question. Im sure GL was trying to be helpful, and no one else has chimed in thus far saying they were having the same problem, so I really dont know who else would have answered your question. I know its hard to tell the tone of a conversation when reading written word, ecspecially on a message board, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to tell when someone is being an out right smart arse either.

[aswan01]

Here, here, funnygirl, I agree wholeheartedly. It seems as though Top thinks he is the ONLY one entitled to an opinion on anything. He's obviously one of those "I'm always right and everyone else is always wrong" kind of people. I think GL was very patient in trying to explain the problem to Top and he didn't listen. He was too intent on trying to bait GL into an online arguement, which I think she graciuosly avoided it when she bowed out of the conversation after it became apparent that Top was not interested in help or conversation, but merely wanted to be beligerent and arrogant. I don't know who you're trying to impress Top (maybe yourself), but it didn't impress me.

[CandleCouture]

Well said.

[eugenia]

I joined the old board years ago when I was having a problem with palm pillars that would not release. Candlewic was not helpful. I was at my wits end. I must have poured those pillars six times, all to no avail. I never got an answer. I now know that lots of stearic would have solved my problem.

I digress. My point is simple. People like Top were not around before. I consider him to be a huge asset to this board, pompous ass that he is.

e

[CandleCouture]

I thought your point was going to be (and probably should ahve been) that, because of what happened to you, when a supplier that cares enough about their customer chimes in, it is a welcome surprise, and one that we should not take for granted. Instead, you encourage someone that drives these very suppliers away from these boards with their attitude? Go figure.

[LadyBugCandles]

People like Top were not around before. I consider him to be a huge asset to this board, pompous ass that he is.

e

I think you got part of that right...the huge ass part. I'm sorry, but I'd rather not have his advice if I have to take the attitude, belittling and arogance that goes with it.

I'll just learn to use the search feature:lipsrseal

btw, this is nothing personal to you E! Please don't take it as such.