Mystery Batch!

[cbSoapworks]

Hello there fellow soap makers!

Im brand new to this forum and hope to gain some knowledge and share some knowledge.
Ive been making hot process soap for about six months. Learned a lot, started making money out of a hobby. Ive had hundreds of successful bars with different recipes since Ive started. But as luck would have it, Ive stumped myself and for the life of me cannot figure out what is going wrong with my most recent batches.

First off, Ive been using this exact recipe for many many batches now. Ive done all my cleaning and prep work the same way every time since I started making soap. Ive been using Crafters Choice raw materials since I started. My first few batch was made with Walmart Shorting which contains Tallow. The following batches were made without, replacing the shortening ingredient with a vegan option.
Attached are the recipes Ive been using for both style soaps (Vegan and NON vegan) In PDF form.
Also Attached are pictures of finished bars as well as the problem batches.

To rule out the major stuff, Ive used two different scales side by side and both were accurate with the readings. I measure all ingredients using Grams btw. Simply, the only difference between recent successful batches and the new batches were the raw ingredients.... with all my successful batches I used 8lb tubs of raw material and gallon containers of oils. For cost savings, I recently bumped up to the 28lb containers of raw materials. Since I received these materials, Ive been unsuccessful with 5 different cooks.

Every batch comes out super oily and will never harden...... EVER. weeks and weeks and weeks later

Which would make me think improper Lye or too much oil. So, batch after batch, double and triple checking all ingredients with different scales.... Ive had this problem over and over.

My final suspicion was bad Palm oil. The 8lb container was smooth and thick and creamy... this 28lb container was more gritty, yellow, oily and just didn't match prior supplies of palm oil. I melted down the entire 28lb container to a liquid, mixed really well and broke down into smaller containers for ease of use, thinking the stearic acid separated from the palm oil. After this was done.... I had the same problem. 

 

So after the multiple fails with this bad palm theory, I took out the palm and went back to the shortening.... SAME PROBLEM!  so that rules out bad palm oil?  What else could it be?

Im at a complete loss with what my issues are... Ive used soapcalc since day one and it was never wrong before... Please see attached pictures and let me know what y'all think my problem is.

Ive lost a decent amount of money on lost sales and garbage product and want to me able to fulfill orders as soon as possible. Thank Y'all so much in advance.

Edited March 21, 2020 by cbSoapworks
Add information

[Sarah S]

Just looking at your recipe, that is a pretty high amount of castor oil. You used that same percentage previously with no problem?

 

Where do you get your lye? Do you masterbatch it or do you mix it fresh each time?

[cbSoapworks]

Yes, Ive always used 10% Castor Oil for the previous bars.  The lye is also Crafters Choice. Every oil is separate and mixed fresh every time. 

 

Sorry, I uploaded the wrong recipe... Its 10% castor.  Ill correct that

Edited March 21, 2020 by cbSoapworks

[Sarah S]

Hmmm, ok. I'm not as experienced with HP as I am CP. If that was a CP soap, and you've ruled out improper measurement, I'd say there was something wrong with the lye. Are all the bad batches made with the same lot of lye?

For HP, the only thing I can think of, is if you are adding the super fat after the cook, it might just be too much super fat. 

Hopefully someone with HP experience will chime in. @Sponiebr @TallTayl @Candybee

Oh, one more thought, have you changed fragrance oils? They'd can do some wacky things to soap batter.

[cbSoapworks]

The lye is from the same company. But they are smaller containers and I've opened two containers fresh broken seals for the cooks that went bad. 

 

As far as the super fat, Im not adding anything to the cook afterwards except the fragrance.  But by the looks of it being SOOOOO oily it may just be an accumulation of weak lye, too much of a super fat to begin with and additional fragrance.  I have tried two different fragrances one was thicker then the other. But both had the same reaction. 

 

[Candybee]

I agree with Sarah it sounds like a lye problem to me. You also mentioned the lye started coming in different containers so my guess is the manufacture or supplier changed something. Also, lye can be impure too so again I think something has happened with the lye.

 

To see if I am right, go to your local hardware or home improvement store and purchase some lye. Make sure it is 100% lye and not cut with anything. It will will say 100% on the label. I used to buy rooto brand at my local hardware. This time just make a smaller batch like 1 lb with the new lye to test it out. I'll bet you will find it was the lye.

 

If so, find a new lye supplier. But test it first to make sure it is the lye.

[NightLight]

I was going to say castor oil as well, I never use more than 5 per cent. But Lye for sure can be an issue. Have you been adding extra fragrance at all? 
I would

try new lye with recipe

try new lye with addition of sodium lactate- sodium lactate in your hot process will help harden it and it will make your soap more fluid.

if you haven’t tried it with hot process it helps.

 

[Candybee]

10% castor should not be a problem. I have recipes that call for that. The soap would be soft for a few weeks but eventually hardens up nicely so no problem. I don't see that adding sodium lactate would be necessary if her previous batches were fine. Since the recipe and ingredients are the same something has changed in one or more of the ingredients. The description fits the lye IMO. So, buy lye from another source and test it with you recipe. Just make a small batch so you don't waste your ingredients.

[TallTayl]

One quick test to rule out lye I use is to make a small batch of CP olive oil only soap.  Assuming my olive oil is not adulterated (a whole other tale) it should get rock hard within a day if the lye is ok. 
 

if the only thing different than is you lye, that should be easy to isolate as the problem. 

[cbSoapworks]

GUYS!  y'all were 100% right. I can't believe what I'm about to tell everyone but I messed up.... Big time and its so stupid.  I guess when I was ordering my Lye, I didn't pay attention and I actually ordered Potassium Hydroxide Flakes instead of Sodium Hydroxide Flakes. They come in the exact same containers and I just never took the time to read the container.  I feel like a moron. But you live and you learn. Took me over 384oz of failed soap and this post before it was figured out and Y'all helped massively by making me check all components of my cook. Thank You so much

[TallTayl]

So you made liquid soap paste! Woot! Dilute and use that gold. 

[Sponiebr]

4 hours ago, cbSoapworks said:

GUYS!  y'all were 100% right. I can't believe what I'm about to tell everyone but I messed up.... Big time and its so stupid.  I guess when I was ordering my Lye, I didn't pay attention and I actually ordered Potassium Hydroxide Flakes instead of Sodium Hydroxide Flakes. They come in the exact same containers and I just never took the time to read the container.  I feel like a moron. But you live and you learn. Took me over 384oz of failed soap and this post before it was figured out and Y'all helped massively by making me check all components of my cook. Thank You so much

Yeah, KaOH WOULD give you a much softer soap... (It's SHAMPOO!) 




That thing about the Sodium lactate Nightlight mentioned.... Add in the SL after the cook and after the mix has cooled down to about 150F and then mix in the SL... Oh it can get FLUID.

How fluid you ask!? 

I'm glad you asked! 

 

It gets THAT fluid. (Yeah so there is SOME wizardry involved in THAT but it's mostly because of Sodium Lactate.) 


Sponiebr

The Executor of Bad Ideas and Sundry Services. 

On 3/21/2020 at 7:32 PM, Sarah S said:

Hopefully someone with HP experience will chime in. @Sponiebr @TallTayl @Candybee

 

Thank you for remembering that I was someone that knew something about anything at one time, now, long ago...❤️ 

[Candybee]

Funny you should say it was KOH. I was just thinking about that and was going to post it but saw you already posted that that was the problem. You could save the soap by making a regular batch and adding the 2 together in the crockpot so you get a double batch; half KOH batch, half regular lye batch. Means you need to put the KOH batch in the crockpot to melt it down with a little liquid, then make another batch and add it in the crockpot with the KOH batch and blend the batches together. 

 

The soap will come out a bit soft for a few days but should firm up fine. I do this technique all the time with a line of soaps I make; half KOH, half Sodium Hydroxide lye.

 

Or, just use the soft soap as a hand soap, or do what TT suggests and cook on low heat with a bit of liquid to make liquid soap. Add the liquid slowly until you get the desired thickness you like. I like to use a combo of aloe juice and glycerin to make liquid hand soap.

 

They say out of accidents come invention. I never waste soap. Even the botched soaps I find I can use then or reinvent them or rebatch to make something I can use.

[NightLight]

Don’t feel bad we all have whoopsies. Make that batch of candles and forget the fragrance? Hahaha.

Mise En Place!

 

Do try adding sodium lactate, it does amazing things for hot process!

[Sarah S]

23 hours ago, cbSoapworks said:

GUYS!  y'all were 100% right. I can't believe what I'm about to tell everyone but I messed up.... Big time and its so stupid.  I guess when I was ordering my Lye, I didn't pay attention and I actually ordered Potassium Hydroxide Flakes instead of Sodium Hydroxide Flakes. They come in the exact same containers and I just never took the time to read the container.  I feel like a moron. But you live and you learn. Took me over 384oz of failed soap and this post before it was figured out and Y'all helped massively by making me check all components of my cook. Thank You so much

 

So glad it was something easily fixable!