What is going wrong :(

[candlesinflorida]

Hello all-

For several years, I have had no problems with candles not burning. But in the last couple months, I have had several customers saying that their candles light...then burn out. 
The only “constant” that they all have in common is the wax. I have been getting GW 444 from Virginia Candle Supply. It could be the wax...it could be something else with the wicks. Is anyone else having recent lighting problems that only started in the last 6 months. I searched on here for recent similar issues.

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

[TallTayl]

I had similar problems with 444 beginning with lots made in December 2018.  The flakes felt wet.  They have now dried to a crisp and kind of burn, but not like they used to before 12/18.

 

from all sources I could find, GB moved operations to Central America late 2018.  At the December processing time the hydrogenater  was injecting water into the wax. Supposedly that was fixed 🤷🏻‍♀️🙄.  Could just be the wax is not fully “dry”. 

[candlesinflorida]

4 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I had similar problems with 444 beginning with lots made in December 2018.  The flakes felt wet.  They have now dried to a crisp and kind of burn, but not like they used to before 12/18.

 

from all sources I could find, GB moved operations to Central America late 2018.  At the December processing time the hydrogenater  was injecting water into the wax. Supposedly that was fixed 🤷🏻‍♀️🙄.  Could just be the wax is not fully “dry”. 

THANK YOU. Honestly, I have been actually thinking of quitting my candle business, just because of this. It is really disconcerting to hear about problems...and not know the potential solution. One or two of the 50lb shipments did look “wet” but I attributed it to the Florida humidity. I was concerned at the time, though. I suspect there is no way to “dry” the wax because some of the complaints come from people who didn’t light the candles for many months after they were made. In fact, time might have made it even WORSE. Maybe the watery part comes to the top, as the fragrance oil and soy sinks lower in time. In any case, I need to switch wax. What was your best back-up, or did you stay with 444?  

[TallTayl]

I have had better luck with C1, American soy “midwest” and even the millenium wax than with 444. 
 

I had a shipment of 444 from november2018  that was the best ever, and the next in December that was the worst, most unusable wax ever purchased.

 

you might want to look at AmericanSoyOrganics as they produce some 464, I believe, in pellet form.  Seems their tolerances are much tighter than the Central America plant. 
 

the best thing about pushing through the issues is how much I learned. It is helpful to have that knowledge and experience to “fix” waxes that fall to the edges of the range of acceptable. For instance, adding a little of another wax, like midwest soy, fixes issues with C1 and C3 and sometimes 444 when too many hardening additives were in the batch. 
 

I would try a candle using your wax with no additives to see how it is performing. 

[Laura C]

1 hour ago, candlesinflorida said:

THANK YOU. Honestly, I have been actually thinking of quitting my candle business, just because of this. It is really disconcerting to hear about problems...and not know the potential solution. One or two of the 50lb shipments did look “wet” but I attributed it to the Florida humidity. I was concerned at the time, though. I suspect there is no way to “dry” the wax because some of the complaints come from people who didn’t light the candles for many months after they were made. In fact, time might have made it even WORSE. Maybe the watery part comes to the top, as the fragrance oil and soy sinks lower in time. In any case, I need to switch wax. What was your best back-up, or did you stay with 444?  

 

Hey, you shouldn't give up. We've all had bad experiences and have thought the same thing. Like TallTayl says, it's the tough times that help you learn so much. 

[Laura C]

41 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

the best thing about pushing through the issues is how much I learned. It is helpful to have that knowledge and experience to “fix” waxes that fall to the edges of the range of acceptable. 

 

I second that.

[BusyBee]

I am sorry to hear that you are going thru hard times.  Was it whole box that you have problem? 

 

Even other big companies had gone thru difficult times at their beginning.  Best example would be Lab & Oil Co.  They had to shut down their first candle company because their candles were blowing up.  Look at them.  They are back stronger than before.  WoodWick Company is another.  Their first candles had many problem of staying lit.  Look who owns them now.

 

If we we can control this kind of defects, then it would be nice.  But, this is something that we cannot control 100%.  

I am just hoping that you can turn this into a showcase where you can show the world how good your customer service skills are.

 

*I really want to see you succeed in this market.  👍

[strugglebrother]

33 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

I am sorry to hear that you are going thru hard times.  Was it whole box that you have problem? 

 

Even other big companies had gone thru difficult times at their beginning.  Best example would be Lab & Oil Co.  They had to shut down their first candle company because their candles were blowing up.  Look at them.  They are back stronger than before.  WoodWick Company is another.  Their first candles had many problem of staying lit.  Look who owns them now.

 

If we we can control this kind of defects, then it would be nice.  But, this is something that we cannot control 100%.  

I am just hoping that you can turn this into a showcase where you can show the world how good your customer service skills are.

 

*I really want to see you succeed in this market.  👍

 

Hi there,

 

Are you referring to The Lab and Co or another company? I think Lab and Co and WoodWick are the same company?

 

May I ask where you heard that their candles were blowing up? Just curious if the info is out there somewhere...

[BusyBee]

48 minutes ago, strugglebrother said:

 

Hi there,

 

Are you referring to The Lab and Co or another company? I think Lab and Co and WoodWick are the same company?

 

May I ask where you heard that their candles were blowing up? Just curious if the info is out there somewhere...

Lab & Co and The Wooden Wick Co are under Dayna Decker Corp.  She also owns many other brands.  WoodWick Candle is owned by Newell Brands, which owns Yankee Candle.

 

Here is article on Dayna Decker.

https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/botanika-candles-recalled-lumetique.html

It was manufactured by private-label manufacturer in Glendale now called Modern Candles.  They had to change their name also after that law suits. 

[strugglebrother]

8 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

Lab & Co and The Wooden Wick Co are under Dayna Decker Corp.  She also owns many other brands.  WoodWick Candle is owned by Newell Brands, which owns Yankee Candle.

 

Here is article on Dayna Decker.

https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/botanika-candles-recalled-lumetique.html

It was manufactured by private-label manufacturer in Glendale now called Modern Candles.  They had to change their name also after that law suits. 

 

Yeah that sounds like a huge recall... I have been to Modern Candle previously, yeah they are a big private label manufacturer here in Los Angeles. Interesting and thanks for the link.

 

[Laura C]

14 hours ago, BusyBee said:

Here is article on Dayna Decker.

https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/botanika-candles-recalled-lumetique.html

It was manufactured by private-label manufacturer in Glendale now called Modern Candles.  They had to change their name also after that law suits. 

 

Wow, that's certainly a candle maker's nightmare. It would be interesting to know exactly what happened, it doesn't list the details. If it was user error, manufacturer error or both.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Laura C

[BusyBee]

14 hours ago, Laura C said:

 

Wow, that's certainly a candle maker's nightmare. It would be interesting to know exactly what happened, it doesn't list the details. If it was user error, manufacturer error or both.

Here is link on little more detail.

https://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/03/19/Lumetique-DayNa-Decker-candles-recalled/51551269013022/

 

"The flame on the candles can unexpectedly flare up..."

[Laura C]

10 hours ago, BusyBee said:

Here is link on little more detail.

https://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/03/19/Lumetique-DayNa-Decker-candles-recalled/51551269013022/

 

"The flame on the candles can unexpectedly flare up..."

 

Hi @BusyBee, thanks. I will expand on this topic some more, I think it's interesting and others may too.

 

(Note: this should be moved under the "Product Safety for Wax Products" topic but I wanted to go ahead and respond so the point would be clear)

 

Right, that's what the article stated but that's a broad statement, different things could be taking place. I'm simply trying to get the point across that many different factors could be involved but they don't go into detail. You would imagine a big company like that isn't just going to sell dangerous junk but sometimes defective supplies can be unknowingly procured. Errors or mistakes are not always found on just one side. Injured consumers should be dealt with fairly, they were injured, and also good manufactures that do things right shouldn't be wrongly accused of bad practices. See what I'm saying? There's not enough information about what actually transpired in order to draw a firm or fair conclusion, many people will just assume this company is terrible and sells junk. Is that the correct conclusion or not, we don't know.  I bet people on here that sell their products and deal with customers have come up against this exact situation at one point or another. I know for myself, if I was selling products and had followed all the safety standards and requirements and a customer abused my product and then tried to blame me then I would deal with it appropriately.

 

Things to Consider:

- Did the manufacturer use proper heat resistant glass?

- Did the manufacturer use the proper wick?

- Did the manufacturer properly test the candle?

- Did the manufacturer include the proper warnings and usage instructions?

 

- Did the user trim the wicks properly which is usually posted on the warning label or included with burning instructions? Or did the user allow the flame to get out of control?

- Did the user leave wick trimmings, used matches, etc. in the melted wax which could randomly ignite?

- Did the user leave the candle burning forever?

- And so on and so on.

 

Anybody got anything to add to this discussion? Would love to hear it.