lan Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Hello All! I am using Northwoods Candle Company coconut wax and their eco wicks in 8 and 10. Both started smoking upon lighting so I trimmed them shorter and seemed to be perfect except neither size gave me a full burn pool after 3 hours and then once extinguished the wax is now discolored and brown where the melt pool was. Any tips are greatly appreciated. I have a eco 12 wick on the way but now Im unsure if that is the right move. Facts: -Used 10 oz jar with 8.5 oz of wax -Used 8% fragrance oil -Eco wick 8 and 10 both led to discoloration -Pictures below are with eco 10 at 1, 2 and 3 hour mark and final photo after fully cooled. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Jars Measure 3 1/2 H x 3 W. Edited November 25, 2018 by lan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughaus Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I'd ditch the eco wicks asap and get some (small): htps, lx and cd wicks. That eco 12 will only make things worse in that wax. In all my coconut wax testing eco wicks have burned way too hot and too deep, discolored the wax, and to add insult to injury, they often throw off an odd burning plastic/chemical smell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughaus Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Looking at your pic, you're not that far with the melt pool diameter at the 3rd hour. I'd want about 1/4" of wax left on the sides after burn 1 on such a deep jar..but the ecos are just bad for that wax. If I was wick testing that jar with that wax I'd pour 5 testers with these wicks: CD7, CD8, HTP 83, HTP 93, LX 16, LX18 just to give you an idea of the size range. Edited November 25, 2018 by pughaus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Great suggestions Pughaus! Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Thank you Pughaus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Eco can work exceptionally well but you have to totally unlearn everything you know about candle wax. Edge to edge melt pool is actually not desirable if you want a nice, clean burn. In that size jar depending on the scent, an eco4 or eco 6 might do just fine. I’ve had great luck with eco2 in that size jar with some fragrances. coconut burns down then out. If it smokes upon lighting, it’s too big. If it is discoloring the wax, it’s too big. Eco 10 and eco12 trimmed to a nub is still a big wick. That nub is trying to pull a lot of fuel to burn a pretty darned hot flame. Treat coconut like the softest paraffin wax you’ve ever used. It will weep into the melt pool versus reach a wide pool. If the pool is wide then it’s going to be hella deep. Just look at the clear wax around the wick as it burns. The melt pool is in the shape of a U. When the U reaches the edges It is much deeper than you might think. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Interesting take TallTayl, I'll add in a eco 6 for the new testing along with the cd, htp and LX. 😅. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 I had the best throw by far with eco. Cd and htp are rumored to be the same. A couple of old threads about them on this forum. lx never worked out for me for some reason. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 so discoloration is caused by a wick that is too hot? or too big? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, lan said: so discoloration is caused by a wick that is too hot? or too big? Yes and yes. Too big of a wick can burn too hot. The goal is to balance rate of consumption.it does not take a huge hot melt pool to throw scent well, especially coconut. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Actually that looks like discoloration from your fragrance oil. If a fragrance oil has high vanillin in it, your candle will discolor. what was the fragrance? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hi NightLight, This is still relevant because I'm still testing wicks and trying to work around discoloration. Who would have guessed? (literally everyone on this site 🤣). The fragrance that turned the most brown was a pink pepper and vetiver from Lab & Co. Ive made quite a few candles since I first posted this in November and have had more discoloration happen. To me it does seem to be partially wick dependent as some wicks will turn the candle more or less. I have wondered about the fragrance oil being a contributing factor. I just ordered a new coconut wax blend to see if that will help. Thanks, Alana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughaus Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 @ian have you tried another wick series besides eco in that wax yet? That looks just like the browning I got when I used ecos in that wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 @pughaus, Yes, I've tried sooo many! So far my best was htp 73 but the burn pool was off and it was tunneling. So I upped it to htp 83 and then I got minor discoloration again. I am now waiting on a new coconut wax shipment from a different supplier. I don't know if that will make a difference but I am sure hoping it will. My current formula appears to be too sensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughaus Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) It kinda looks like that 73 will catch up in the next few burns but I get why you might not be happy with all that hang up. If it's not one thing it's another with cocowax wicking.. I'd tell you to try LXs in that next since I tend to get a nice wide pool from them but tbh I gave up on trying to wick the available coco waxes as-is and started blending in about 40-50% soy and only then was I able to wick any cocowax to my satisfaction. And then I bought some of that Lab Co wax and now I'm spoiled and don't want to use anything else. 😜 Edited January 14, 2019 by pughaus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I would keep going with the 73. I bet you’ll be surprised. If it’s throwing that’s mostly what people are looking for in a candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 @pughaus Lab & Co virgin coconut creme is what's on its way to me to try next. Do you use the Lab & Co wax as is, or are you adding the 40-50% soy to it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 @TallTayl I plan on doing my test with the new wax with the 73. I haven't been blown away by my hot throw though. Which I feel is shocking since everyone raves about coconut wax's incredible hot throw. Im currently at about 9% fragrance load with 1.6oz of fragrance per 1 lb of wax. Im planning on doing a full 2 oz per 1lb of wax for the next round of tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just curious, have you tried less FO? my first coconut wax candle wax easybeads (some say it is the same product at coco83), scented at 6% using peaks Cranberry Apple Marmalade in a dollar store status jar with an eco 6. That jar filled my entire house within minutes of being lit. Turns out eco 6 was a bit large for that combo, but the point is often less is more. fragrances have untold numbers of additives and combos of aromachemicals that change the burn. Some require some serious lowering of scent load to perform well. I’ll never forget the glass glow tea Light made with a lilac scent at 3% that was so disgustingly strong I had to open all of my windows in the middle of January. It was burning in the kitchen which is about the center of a long ranch house. Every room reeked. It’s not the amount of FO in a candle, but the balance of the factors that create magnificent hot throw. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughaus Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 hours ago, lan said: @pughaus Lab & Co virgin coconut creme is what's on its way to me to try next. Do you use the Lab & Co wax as is, or are you adding the 40-50% soy to it? I initially bought it as a temporary blender but started by pouring a test candle of just the VCC and I realized it's pretty perfect as-is so I've been using it as a stand alone. It has a good amt of soy in it already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 @pughaus Well that's refreshing to hear. What wicks have you found are working best with the Lab & Co wax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lan Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 @TallTayl I started with a 7% but since have been slowly increasing the amount. I am going to start fresh with my new wax. How long do you let your candles rest/cure before lighting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 As always it’s a combo of things that could cause discoloration. Find out what the vanillin content is in your fragrance oils. Then do a couple tests with your wax and wicks. Depending on how hot the wick is with the wax and fragrance, it could discolor more or less rapidly. i wait at least 24 hours to test candle as some the waxes really need time to set up and cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Also could be other aroma chemical molecules that could cause problem with heat. Part of testing. I don’t get too upset about it because I know sweet fragrances, those with vanillin are just going to do that , and also over time they will turn color. Vanillin does that, and 5at is something to keep in mind. Many of the fragrance oil companies will list vanillin percentage as candles and body products will discolor, so you look for very low vanillin or none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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