I'm SORRY KARMA!!!

[Sponiebr]

I'm SORRY KARMA!!! I didn't mean to be Bad-ish... Can't we JUST be FRIENDS, instead of a singular "friend with exclusive benefits"!? No? 
O.O (help) 

I'm just grasping at straws here folks... My life has been, (COUGHS) a tad "exciting" as of late.  By "exciting" I mean "exciting" like being mauled by a bear would be "exciting", not "exciting" as in anticipatory...

Sooooo.... Karma is VERY ANGRY with me right now... Well, not really so much "angry" per se, but more like Karma's flown into a blind rage, like the Norse Berserkers...  I normally just roll with this kinda crazy, ('cause yanno... Bad Ideas and all that jazz, it's just kinda my thing), but this last little teensey insignificant thing might be my ticket into insanity.

Even now, I'm sitting here in utter and complete disbelief at what I have seen in the last week or so... You know how those end-of-the-world-wrath-of-God like movies go? You know, frogs the size of Jeep Grand Cheorokee's rain down from the sky at mach 70? Every molecule of water turns into blood? People's faces melt off because they looked at an angel? Weird furry black slugs go racing across the floors of public bathrooms at the speed of sound, and the person that saw them in the bathroom mirror racing at them are caused to scream, because they, erm saw them I guess?  I've got THAT EXACT same thing going on, only it's FAR WORSE!!!!!

You won't believe this, but almost ALL of my CP soap from a year ago to my last batch (let's just call it ALL OF IT to increase the dramatic effect) has broken out simultaneously in DOS. I 5H!t EWE KNOT!  There was an audible BANG and every bar of soap I have ever made broke out in DOS. (Even the stuff that I've already washed off and is no more got DOS...)  

I can see how maybe something being off might cause DOS over the course of oh, say 12 weeks or so, but 1 year ago breaking out NOW at the SAME time as my NEW stuff? I didn't know DOS formation was a clock reaction!  I was actually going to concede that TT was right and that Canola is actually oil of Dreaded Orange, but my OO soaps and my standard GV Shortening, OO, CO, and Castor blend from 5% SF to 10% SF has DOS as well...   My 100% CO soaps and my HP soaps DON'T have any DOS formation right now... (Given my winning streak over the past few weeks I'm SURE that will change.) 

WHISKEY-TANGO-HANGOVER!? I have NO clue WHY this would happen to everything in every type of clime at the same time. I mean unless, you know, it's, a curse? (it might be... Y'never know...)   o.O  

In all seriousness, I've got DOS on a very large group of my soaps in a wide range of SF, storage conditions, ingredients, and age. The only commonality is where they were created and stored initially. Has anyone else ever had spontaneous generation of DOS before?    

You have just stepped into a world of half truths and veiled allegory. A world in which odd men make bubbles from things that do not make bubbles.. A half dimmed land where holes and which-end-is-up are the same thing, and nobody knows the difference... O,O
You have just entered 
The SpOnie zOne,

doo-de-doo-du, doo-de-doo-du, doo-de-doo-du, doo-de-doo-du, doo-de-doo-du, doo-de-doo-du. 
 

[Shari]

That stinks.  Nope, never had it happen in over 7 years.  I've had a random bar or two get DOS mostly because of how the bars were stored. I had 1 batch of 100% CO get all DOS in a few months.  I have heard that if soaps are stored together it can spread by can't verify that either.

[Incendia]

For other acronym-challenged but soap-curious readers;
 

Quote

 

DOS - Dreaded Orange Spots. Under certain conditions, yellow/orange spots appear on the surface of natural handmade soaps, and the soap develops a "stuffy" smell, which usually covers the original scent

 

 

Sorry to hear about your soap. I assume from your distress that there is no solution to this problem?

[Jcandleattic]

22 minutes ago, Incendia said:

Sorry to hear about your soap. I assume from your distress that there is no solution to this problem?

Other than cutting the dos off, no, no solution. and cutting it off/out doesn't mask the smell that is now there, and it doesn't stop it, it will just come back. The soap is still usable, but it's not a pleasant smell. Smells exactly like what it is, oils that have gone rancid. High humidity, damp conditions, metal storage racks, old oils used,  etc., are all contributors. 

 

I've only had 1 bar from 1 batch get DOS from setting it near a rusty spot on a metal rack. Have never done that again,

[TallTayl]

Cutting it off only exposes more to develop dos. It is simple oxidation. 

 

Question: the tools you use to make the soap... any metal at all? On anything? 

 

What water do you use?

 

the olive oil. Where is it from and what brand? Olive oil is a well known adulterated oil.

 

shortening, on my pantry shelf, has a fairly short shelf life before smelling off. I pass it by for soap.

 

storage areas, any metal anywhere? Flecks of metal in the room dust can cause dos. Any metal surfaces coming into contact with soap can cause dos. 

[Moonstar]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Cutting it off only exposes more to develop dos. It is simple oxidation. 

 

Question: the tools you use to make the soap... any metal at all? On anything? 

 

What water do you use?

 

the olive oil. Where is it from and what brand? Olive oil is a well known adulterated oil.

 

shortening, on my pantry shelf, has a fairly short shelf life before smelling off. I pass it by for soap.

 

storage areas, any metal anywhere? Flecks of metal in the room dust can cause dos. Any metal surfaces coming into contact with soap can cause dos. 

Does this apply to recipes with lard as well ? As far as olive oil goes, what brand + where do you purchase if you buy local ?

Edited March 16, 2017 by Moonstar

[TallTayl]

I have had dos appear in 100% lard soap. 

Give google a whirl on olive oil adulteration and testing. The brands may have changed since the last article I have. Pretty much every grocery store national brand was adulterated. According to independent testing by UC Davis, Bertolli, Rachel Ray, Carapelli, Colavita, Star, Pompeian. Filippo Berio, Mazzola, Mezzetta, Newman's Own, etc. 

 

people have reported dos free with Costco's house brand and great value from Walmart, but I have not seen any testing data on ever of those. 

 

Another article with recommended brands: http://www.realfoodforlife.com/which-olive-oil-to-buy-the-olive-oil-fraud/

[Incendia]

25 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Question: the tools you use to make the soap... any metal at all? On anything? 

 

Would the metal blade of an immersion blender be enough to affect it?

 

I made some ultra-primitive soap years ago - before there was so much good internet info - and while fun, my soap turned rancid in a few months. I was toying with the idea of making some again.

 

As for adulterated olive oil, yes, the problem is massive. A few years ago, Costco's extra virgin olive oil was indeed one of the few that was shown to be unadulterated.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Incendia

[TallTayl]

The stick blender blade could have shed some ions, sure. Most should be stainless, but who knows?

[Sponiebr]

5 hours ago, Shari said:

That stinks.  Nope, never had it happen in over 7 years.  I've had a random bar or two get DOS mostly because of how the bars were stored. I had 1 batch of 100% CO get all DOS in a few months.  I have heard that if soaps are stored together it can spread by can't verify that either.

I can verify that. I've had it spread across multiple bars in especially if touching each other. Specifically in any instance where a bar was touching another bar there is a yellow spot forming at the point where they were touching. Probably from not being able to dry properly. 

 

2 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

Other than cutting the dos off, no, no solution. and cutting it off/out doesn't mask the smell that is now there, and it doesn't stop it, it will just come back. The soap is still usable, but it's not a pleasant smell. Smells exactly like what it is, oils that have gone rancid. High humidity, damp conditions, metal storage racks, old oils used,  etc., are all contributors. 

 

I've only had 1 bar from 1 batch get DOS from setting it near a rusty spot on a metal rack. Have never done that again,

The smell isn't too bad right now. Honestly, on most of the bars the DOS wouldn't be noticeable as far as smell is concerned, it's more of a cosmetic issue. Still I can't have that kind of negativity in my life. Ain't nobody got time for dat! 

 

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Cutting it off only exposes more to develop dos. It is simple oxidation. 

 

Question: the tools you use to make the soap... any metal at all? On anything? 

Oh, LORD yes! I've got lots of metal tools. The cutters, the spatula thingy that I use for EVERYTHING... The beveler. They're all stainless, but I don't think they are the culprit. You mentioning this caused me to think about it and I'm 99.9% sure I know what's causing it. (more on this in a second) 

 

What water do you use?

Strickly distilled water or Aloe Vera Juice, I NEVER use tap or well water in my formulations. 
 

 

the olive oil. Where is it from and what brand? Olive oil is a well known adulterated oil.

Walmart's Great Value 100% Classic Olive oil. It's supposed to be one of the good ones. (I don't think it's my fats) 
 

shortening, on my pantry shelf, has a fairly short shelf life before smelling off. I pass it by for soap.

 

Again it's Great Value Animal/Vegetable blended shortening. Basically Beef Tallow and Palm Oil. I get almost all of my oils from Walmart.

storage areas, any metal anywhere? Flecks of metal in the room dust can cause dos. Any metal surfaces coming into contact with soap can cause dos. 

THIS^ Ok. Yeah. I make almost all of my soap at my work which is in a hovel on an interstate. There's exhaust particulate everywhere, but usually NOT on my soaps because I keep them covered up. That's not the cause though... So I mentioned that I work in a hovel? Well that hovel has some of the most toxic water I have encountered in the world. Highly sulfurous corrosive stuff that reeks hydrogen sulfide and leaves THICK dark brown Ferrous Sulfide stains on anything it comes into contact with. When we dry our hands off on a hand towel after a couple of days the towel is stained brown. Everything develops a brown rust stain that has been washed in this water... including ALL of my soaping tools. It's the damned rust from the water. Just recently (in fact the day after my car accident) we were switched over to city water and sewage. 

We have clean water now so, I'll wash up everything or take it all home in loads and wash it good in the dishwasher and hopefully this will no longer be a problem. 

It's gotta be the damned rust water stains. 

Thanks people! It's GOOD to know I'm not actually cursed, 'cause y'never know... o.O 

Spponiebr 

[Candybee]

Awwwwwww.... so sorry to hear about your DOS! Honestly if it weren't for tips from Talltayl about watching my fatty acid profiles when I am developing a recipe I probably would have had it a lot more.

 

So far I have had exactly 2 bars develop DOS and it turned out to be a recipe that I later tweaked from tips from TT to combat DOS. I am also careful about the materials I use and the shelf life of my oils I use. I make sure all my utensils are safe for soapmaking and whatever the soap comes in contact with when it come to curing on racks or storing in boxes.

 

For me the experience has been mostly about being careful with recipe formulations. I make 2-3 very high conditioning soaps with oils that are high in linoleic fatty acids or high in iodiine soaps. So I have to watch the figures to be sure they stay within an exceptable range that won't create DOS. I never go above 70 for iodine or 15 for linoleic. Got rid of the DOS problem and never had it again. So I can say in all the years I have been making CP soap I have only had those 2 bars develop DOS and never had it again after I learned how to watch my fatty acid profiles much better.