GW 444 frustrations

[burnsv1]

Hello.  Just wanted to say how much I looooove this forum.  I have learned so much from all the wonderful people and their wealth of knowledge.  I have a question about soy wax.  I am using GW444 in jelly jars and I have tested a couple different wicks like ECO 10 (too big) and 51-32-18 (too big)  Anyway, I am having difficulties with smooth tops from the soy.  I heat to 185 and pour around 115.  I may pour them and have smooth tops.  Or if I have a sinkhole or bumps after I pour, if I use heat gun I end up with frosting. After the first or second burn they look horrible and they're all bumpy and just rough.  If I don't use dye, the wax will cool discolored after I test burn (like yellowish instead of white).  I haven't started selling yet but that's my end goal.  Are customers ok with the results soy provides?  Sorry but can't post pictures since my camera is dead.  TIA

[GalaxyGirl]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. I use GW444 also. I've yet to have an issue with frosting, you may want to try pouring at a higher temp, I pour around 140 into warmed jars, sometimes I get smooth tops sometimes I don't, I just use a heat gun. As far as the color of the wax it is an offwhite yellowish color. I use a different size jar so I cant't say what wicks work best, but you may want to try Premier wicks, I get them from Aztec and I really like them. The key is testing testing and more testing, lol. I've been experimenting and testing for almost a year and it's frustrating at times, but don't give up, because once you fnd what works best for you, it will all be worth it

[nursenancy]

I pour hot too.  I heat mine to around 180 degrees, stir in fo and dye and pour.  I always get smooth tops and very little frosting.  I did learn that if the jars are touching I get frosting and air pockets where they touch

[Clear Black]

Its stuff like this that makes newbies like me pull my hair out. All of you have different pour temps including myself. I pour GB 444 at 100*! After heating to 180*, I let sit all the way til 100* and pour and my tops are like GLASS. My adhesion is near perfect with no noticeable wet spots. Only thing Im working on now is when to add my FO. I have no clue when to pour so Im sorta just winging it during this testing phase.

 

The first batch I made I poured my FO at 180* but later found out that that particular FO has a FP of 140*. So I think I burned the FO and messed that batch up because my candle was ugly as all hell. Had craters, wouldnt burn properly, many, many air pockets. The list goes on.

 

The second test batch I made, I actually waited til 105*, added FO, then poured at 100*. My cold throw and hot throw were both there, but hot throw was weaker than I want. I had to stick my nose down to about a foot away from candle to get any scent.

 

Batch #3 will be sometime this week, then cure time. I just dont know if my 100* pour temp is where I should be at, nor do I know when to pour my FO in. I will however say that according to the distributers guidelines on when to pour, 100* seems to line up with "cool and slushy" that they suggest. Although even at 100* its not slushy. All I know is that at 100*, when I pour into my container (12oz Elite) the wa is cooled white on the sides almost within the first minute, and within 5-8 minutes the entire candle has a "solid white" look to it although the middle of the candle is obviously still liquid.

[TallTayl]

Flash point of the FO has no bearing on when you should add it to the wax. Flash point is the temperature the fragrance would need to reach to ignite if near a spark or flame. The info is critical for shipping the FO, but not so much for making your candles.

One FO i use has a FP of 133 (Aromahaven's lemon verbena). I add it at normal temps and never "burn it off" in the candle making process. It is consistently one of the strongest throwers i have ever used.

If your wax is too cool the FO may not blend in as homogenously as when properly warmed. Mixing too cool could very well cause irregularities in your final candle appearance. also, if the wax cools slowly the crystals grow slowly, giving that rough appearance.

[Clear Black]

Flash point of the FO has no bearing on when you should add it to the wax. Flash point is the temperature the fragrance would need to reach to ignite if near a spark or flame. The info is critical for shipping the FO, but not so much for making your candles.

One FO i use has a FP of 133 (Aromahaven's lemon verbena). I add it at normal temps and never "burn it off" in the candle making process. It is consistently one of the strongest throwers i have ever used.

If your wax is too cool the FO may not blend in as homogenously as when properly warmed. Mixing too cool could very well cause irregularities in your final candle appearance. also, if the wax cools slowly the crystals grow slowly, giving that rough appearance.

Good to know on the FP issue. Thank you

 

On what temp to add the FO, would you suggest adding it as soon as I reach my max temp of 180*? If I do so, can I still wait til 100* to pour my wax into my jars? Ive found initial testing suggesting that my 444 is reacting better to a pour temp of 100* rather than the first few tests I did when I poured at 130*. At 130* my tops came out ugly, and I had worm holes/cavities throughout. When I pour at 100*, my tops are glass and no visable worm holes or air pockets

[TallTayl]

I treat all of the fo's the same, with the exception of really heavy fragrances (vanillas and candy corn for instance) which sometimes need additional heat to fully blend. You can see those at the bottom of the mixing pots when they are too cool and heavy. When wax is too cool to blend the FO it can sink toward the bottom of the candle or pool in droplets. It's not always easy to see.

Keep in mind that the FO will drop the temp of the molten wax a bit when you add it. When i make beeswax candles, for instance, i melt til just liquid which is around 146-150 for my typical lots of beeswax. When i pour the fo in the pot it can form a solid mass of wax and fo. Stirring breaks it up, but often i need to heat it to get everything to mix completely. The fragrances are fine.

Think about wax melts. Those babies melt and release scent for days. Good quality fragrance that works well with your wax should be no problem to mix at temp and slow cool.

BTW, i still poke around the wicks for caverns in every candle. Even when tops appear perfect i find them. I tried pouring slushy, cold, hot. Didn't matter. Some of the biggest caverns i found were pouring really cool. Pouring Too cold gives me jump lines.

Edited December 28, 2015 by TallTayl

[Sugarfoot]

On 8/17/2015 at 7:00 AM, burnsv1 said:

Hello.  Just wanted to say how much I looooove this forum.  I have learned so much from all the wonderful people and their wealth of knowledge.  I have a question about soy wax.  I am using GW444 in jelly jars and I have tested a couple different wicks like ECO 10 (too big) and 51-32-18 (too big)  Anyway, I am having difficulties with smooth tops from the soy.  I heat to 185 and pour around 115.  I may pour them and have smooth tops.  Or if I have a sinkhole or bumps after I pour, if I use heat gun I end up with frosting. After the first or second burn they look horrible and they're all bumpy and just rough.  If I don't use dye, the wax will cool discolored after I test burn (like yellowish instead of white).  I haven't started selling yet but that's my end goal.  Are customers ok with the results soy provides?  Sorry but can't post pictures since my camera is dead.  TIA

 

I use 444 as well.  You may need to let them cool a tad bit longer.  I let mine cool to probably 90-100 degrees (or whenever it clings to the side of my pouring pot and gets a little slushy). I always get smooth tops when I do this.  Whenever I try to pour hotter than that I get rough tops and tons of wet spots.  

 

Do my customers seem to care? Nope.  Yesterday I had a client choose my only candle with a rough top ( I was in a hurry to pour) and it was because that was the scent she preferred.  

 

I heat to 180-185, add my fragrance and dye in at that time then stir and let cool.  You just have to be really patient with the cure times with this wax.  That's the most frustrating part for me.  I hate waiting 1-2 weeks to burn a candle.  

[Siren12]

I use 444 and havent had those issues, i heat it to 180-185 and pour around 165. I make sure that my jars are not touching eachother. 

Where are you pouring your candles? Is the room just regular room temp or cooler? I noticed I had some issues with in consistent tops when I poured candles this winter and my kitchen was too cold. 

What size jelly jars at you using? I use Eco 14s in 8oz square mason jars and the work really well for me. Candle science has a good guide for wicks if you haven't already seen it, you just need to know what wax you are using and the diameter vessel. 

Another thought I am having is that maybe you got a bad batch of wax? I bought some from a different distributer one time and found I had issues, went back to candle science for my next order and my candles were perfect. 

I also get the discoloration after burning, I think that it has to do with the fragrance oil but I'm not sure maybe someone else knows why that happens, I don't get it with all of my fragrances that's why I think it has to do with that. 

As for imperfections, i haven't sold any but have given them to plenty of people and they always say great things. I think people are more willing to over look the imperfections that we see like frosting if the candle throws great and burns clean. 

[Siren12]

I know this is an old thread that I keep bringing to life but this is the wax I use so I wanted to let people know what worked for me.

I realized I actually get better results using Eco10 wicks in my 8oz square mason jars, so when I get those in my most recent supply order Im switching. 

Also a few batches I did recently I was struggling with sink holes and rough tops, I realized that I get the best results when I can pour the candle in one pour. Going back and trying to top the candle off was causing my candles to look bad,  even if i didn't think I was waiting too on it was still long enough for the wax to change temp.  I am so happy I figured that out so that I didn't end up with lots of candles that I needed to fix.  :-) 

Another thing with this last batch I did was wait till it was 150 degs f and the room temp wasn't as drastic because its getting warmer outside. 

 

[Jeuca]

Thanks to everyone - I am new to the site and am learning so much.  I have only been working with candles for  six months, but sure have spent  lot of money testing. I use GB 444 and have had great luck, finally,  heating to 185, adding FO off heat at 185, and pouring at 100.  My 8 oz mason jars with EO 10 wicks are great.  However, I am now trying to add the 16 oz apothecary jars to make presents for friends, and am having trouble finding the right wick.  One challenge is that it has a 3.1 inch opening at the top, but the diameter at the base is 4 inches.  I'm testing with 10 oz NG French lavender - EO 14 way too big, 10 looks like it may also be too big.  Does anyone have suggestions?  Should I double wick with a smaller size?  I will be so appreciative for any suggestions.   

[Jeuca]

By the way - I also bought some 8 oz apothecary jars but have not started to test yet. Am I correct in believing that if all else is held constant the 8 oz jar will take the same size wick as the 16 oz jar?  Of course I'll test - but it would be so helpful to know where to start. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Jeuca]

OK - it is late and I am tired.  I meant to say 10% fragrance, not 10 oz.  Please forgive the newbie.

[c_gills]

On 12/3/2016 at 7:11 PM, Jeuca said:

Thanks to everyone - I am new to the site and am learning so much.  I have only been working with candles for  six months, but sure have spent  lot of money testing. I use GB 444 and have had great luck, finally,  heating to 185, adding FO off heat at 185, and pouring at 100.  My 8 oz mason jars with EO 10 wicks are great.  However, I am now trying to add the 16 oz apothecary jars to make presents for friends, and am having trouble finding the right wick.  One challenge is that it has a 3.1 inch opening at the top, but the diameter at the base is 4 inches.  I'm testing with 10 oz NG French lavender - EO 14 way too big, 10 looks like it may also be too big.  Does anyone have suggestions?  Should I double wick with a smaller size?  I will be so appreciative for any suggestions.   

Hey Jeuca - Based on my experience with GB444 and the apothecary jar, you'll want to wick to the base diameter of 4" so the ECO 16 or 2 ECO 10 depending on your FO is best. Also, I pour between 150-140 depending on the ambient temp. Good Luck!