Henryk

Hi, For those of you using C3 - how is your wetspot and frost issues? On the other thread there are reports of sinkholes and frost in another thread a few posts down at http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=848 - in that case I might as well keep trying to make CBA work better - there are no frost or wetspot issues with it (for me at least) - even when heatgunning it. TIA

6006 is a slab. Its also a para/soy blend. I have some but have not tried it yet. My info from my seller is you pour at 170F and it can hold up to 9% FO. I am also searching for a perfect hot pour wax, so that is why I'm looking at soy/paraffin blends, but I'd like to keep my current soy wax (Eco CBA) if possible - decent throw, zero wetspots, zero frost. If you want a 100% soy wax that is hot pour you can try a few pounds of Ecosoya Advanced Container Blend (right now there are two versions out there - the new version does improve on cold throw IMO). The temp pouring range is all over the board. Basically, the smaller the container the higher recommended pour temp. Personally, in my 8 oz. containers I've found no difference in pouring anywhere between 130 and 170, so I've been pouring at whatever temp its at after I add FO - that means around 160 or 165. I personally consider this wax either a two-pour or a heat-gun needed wax if used on its own because I've been having small cave-ins by the wick - at least so far in the current high-heat temps most of us have been having - but you are going to blend it so you'd have to test to see what results you would get. HTH

You may want to read this ... http://www.soapdisharchives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57949&hl=

Thread from the old veg wax board: http://www.candletech.com/cgi-local/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=veggiewax;action=display;num=1109180581;start= Hmmm .. the couple I bought years ago smelled great (Illuminations carried them).

Tried it already

Thank you all very much for replying. I'll give them a try.

As far as my CBA candles, its been a mixed blessing. I love being able to use a 100% soy for containers and having no wet spots or frost - not ever so far, and, what I believe is better cold throw, but I'm still having problems with the tops. Others have posted no problems that are using the new blend, so obviously its just my environment then. My solution is just assuming that I may need to do repours. I've poured as cool as 130F. I'll try going even lower, but my goal was to pour hotter. I may just have to go back to a paraffin/soy blend to do what I want because I'm just too impatient I guess.

Dixie, the wax is sweating simply because of the heat. Mine do the same thing. However, my paraffins do not*. If you do add too much FO or add it when the wax is not hot enough before you pour it, it will make it worse. You can also add so much that the wax just doesn't even set up right. It will only take so much depending upon how the wax is formulated. So you ask "is it because the wax is so oily? Or is it the FO seeping out?" Probably yes to either. The soys that are formulated to have no frost or be poured hotter seem to sweat just from the heat more so than just plain soy or paraffin IMHO. For instance, I took a picture of this candle made with a wax that is no longer available, but it too had more of oily feel and had no frost, and could be poured hot. This candle has NO FO in it, but the heat from the three flames caused the sweating you see. * My paraffin mottles will sweat on the sides if they are of different heights and placed to close to the flame of another candle. Regarding FOs. FOs have a threshold. They are only going to get so strong in wax before you are just wasting it and exacerbating the problems above and possibly be hindering throw. The article I read about this did not say the reason for that last bit, but I am inferring that it is because its stops binding with the wax correctly after a certain amount. You would actually have to test this for yourself, or sometimes the seller will actually test and post this information themselves. For instance, the one FO I used for the yellow candle below was very strong at 4%, so that is what I use with that one.

From those who've made 4" pillars, do they burn as good as the 3" pillars? Meaning, do they burn down on their own, or, if hugged, do they ultimately consume themselves as they burn down? Also, with the wicks needed, do they tend to have taller and more "active" flames that throw more soot? I got my 3" pillars working pretty good with stable flames, no soot that I can see, so was just curious if trying 4" molds would be troublesome in this regard. TIA

Cadlechem has both two and three wick ones at http://www.candlechem.com/tin_moonhrtdiam.htm (1/2 way down the page). Here's the double one poured http://candles.genwax.com/candles/___0___P0599568.htm .

Sorry, don't know where to get them, but I think she means these: http://www.canadiancountrygifts.com/CAN-091.html

Just re-read your post. My soy container candles never last a month before we burn them - didn't know soy bled into itself like that over time. Sorry for not noticing you mentioning that.

This a post from the old board. http://www.candletech.com/cgi-local/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=veggiewax;action=display;num=1104973883;start=2 with some info. Like I said, I never had any real problems with these - though I did use the same FO in each layer. Not familiar with the layers blending into each other over time. Maybe some one else can help. (If I was having that much trouble with my soy doing what you mention I would switch to para/soy blend for this application - something like J300. If you look on Astorlite's site there are specific step-by-step instructions for using it. I have to say - it makes a great looking container candle, layers or not).

Smaller. See: http://www.justbynature.com/How-to-troubleshoot-wick-mushrooming.html

1. If you mean you want to do votives then container soy will be harder to release from the mold since container waxes are meant to adhere. 2. Votive soy should be poured hotter and since container soy has a lower melt point so you are going to get bleeding. 3. For votives if you pour the container wax on top of an already cooler votive soy - if that has starting to release, the container blend my run down in between the lower layers and the mold. So, if I were doing layered votives OR containers I would use the wax meant for that particular application and pay attention that I poured hot enough for the layers to adhere to one another and soon enough before the wax started to release from the mold (in the case of votives), but not hot enough to cause bleeding in either case (meaning votive or containers). As far as for scent mixing, I don't see how that could happen if the waxes are already even partially set up. JMO. HTH.

Great - so you've poured the "old" version of advanced? Have you noticed very tiny air bubbles constantly floating up from the solid part of the wax under the meltpool to the surface?

What wax? I noticed this issue in only two of the soys I have tried - including my current one. I actually think it may be inherent in the wax or there is something else going on beyond our control. Varying pouring speed, temps, and careful FO/dye blending are not helping. Hopefully someone else has more info.

You didn't say what kind of soy wax so I'm assuming its container blend. If you add stearic its probably just going to frost even more than usual over time. If you have a paraffin pillar blend or a straight cut paraffin you can try those mixed say 50/50, but really I would just say to "use the right tool for the right job".

Now that I'm doing darker colors (thinking about Fall), I'm seeing that the solvents in the two types of liquids I have are really having a (bad) effect on soy if you want to get a very dark shade (if you ever use soy). Last year's holidays I used flakes and crystals, but had to be sure that they were dissolved fully. I just started using the chips because you can get many pre-blended hues. I'm not big on blending dyes because I don't make enough candles to warrant taking notes on drops per pound, but when I want a sage color - that’s what I want. I thought I would have trouble getting them to blend in soy container waxes, but so far no problems - they must be made out of low melt-point waxes as compared to the crystals/flakes. I still have the liquids - some of them in the blends I want, like cranberry, hunter green, etc. I am going to use them because I assume they will have less of an adverse affect on paraffin as opposed to in soy. True ? Anyone have any bad effects on paraffins using a TON of liquid dye in them? For anyone who has found the liquids messy (I find that somehow they seem to leach out of the bottles at the caps), I find that putting on regular caps and use these http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/ProductDetail.aspx?Tab=0&CatalogID=0&CatalogTitle=0&ProductID=1144 stops a lot of that. I hate to be wasteful with the plastic droppers, but I don't use them a lot (at least thats how I'm rationalizing it - plus I try to reuse them if possible).

Contaminate? Well, why couldn't you say you could have a soy candle that has some paraffin instead of the reverse? It seems that the blends I have used in the past (and I just bought some of the IGI ones), have more soy than paraffin. They are very soft and opaque - not hard and translucent like paraffin. I agree, a blend candle should state just that - that its a blend. You can tell almost 100% if a candle is a blend just by looking at it - if it looks REALLY perfect - its not 100% soy. (Though that CB Advanced comes close under perfect conditions). All I used to use was "natural waxes". Then came to realize that paraffin is just as "natural" in its end state as soy. See http://www.igiwax.com/wax_faq.shtml. Paraffin is derived from mineral oils - that is a natural product and actually is dead plants and animals. Both soy and paraffin are refined and processed to get them where they are. If you go to the EPA's site you'll see that Hexane is one of the prime ways to get the oils out of plant material - including soy - http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/hexane.html. The way I look at it is soy wax may be plant-based - but its not natural in the state we use it to make candles. As far as for expense, remember you get 18 fl. oz. from a pound of soy, but get 20 fl. oz. from a pound of paraffin. Plus, using just one example from Peaks, both the Ecosoya 135 and the Ecosoya Advanced is $13.50 per 10 pounds, while the IGI6006 (Veg/Par blend) is only 11.95 per 10 pounds. When I started to consider using paraffins I started doing a lot of research and found articles just blasting paraffin using more emotion and marketing than facts. Finally, every IGI straight paraffin wax that I have looked up (I assume they are using their own paraffins to make their own para/veg blends) are food-grade. Paraffin even has other benefits such as it being inert and non-reactive. Not attacking you at all - I'd never do that - I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I love and use soy all the time, however I am definately considering using blends at this point, something which caused me to really look into paraffin and evaluate if all those horror stories I heard were accurate.

American (Atkins & Pierce) HTP = German (Heinz) CD. Both coreless wicks with a paper stand that causes slight bending to throw the tip of the wick into the outer part of the flame in order to help reduce mushrooming. In my limited experience of them, they burn and bend about the same. RRD is a cored wick, ECO is coreless. In general, coreless wicks have less mushrooming than cored in soy. However, additives such as FO play a part in mushrooming also. Soy itself will cause more mushrooming than say paraffin, but you'll have less mushrooming in soy with no FO than one with - again, in general. Also if wick is pulling up more fuel than it can actually burn, again, mushrooming. So, its not just the wick type but the size chosen (only way to know is to test).

In the very limited tests I've done, the Eco blend is drier - I liked that for pillars because it shows less fingerprinting and imperfections. KY blend looks very creamy - makes a great looking candle. I started doing pillars in paraffin so moved away from both of them, but hope this helps a little.

Finally one burning. FO was 4% (used a very strong FO) and 1/2 of "melon" dye chip, LX24, 2.5" container. Should note that none of the containers since I have started using this wax have any wet spots at all.

... and even futher into the cooling.

Here is one part way into cooling.