SRez

5 minutes ago, Candybee said:

One last thing I check on is the next size smaller wick or even the larger size once I have my wick choice made. Then I do comparison burns all the way to the bottom of the jar just to be sure I have the right size wick. This information you get from the burn can help you when you start putting in additives like fragrance, color, UVI, etc. Some may require you to wick up or wick down depending on the burn performance.

 

Once you start adding fragrance or other additives it can be a whole new challenge so it helps to know how your preferred wick(s) perform in the wax before additives.

 

PS: once I have my candle system worked out I do a final test burn all the way to the bottom of the jar. Not necessarily a power burn but burning as I would as a customer. A few hours here, a few hours the next time, etc. I keep a log of the starting weight and burn hours of the candle prior to each burn so at the end I can determine the total burn hours of my candle system. Since I sell I want to know the actual burn hours not any guesswork. Customers always ask for the total burn time and if you aren't dead on accurate they come back to complain.

I'm definitely going to do this.  Thanks @Candybee

20 minutes ago, Crafty1_AJ said:

I can usually tell on the first burn if the wick is going to be wrong.  It either burns way too fast, or it tunnels and begins to drown out.  

 

If the first burn is great, I still keep testing until I get to the bottom.  But it's often quite obvious on the first burn if I'm way off.

Good to know.  Thanks @Crafty1_AJ  

10 hours ago, CW5 said:

SRez - Any chance you have an update on the premier vs CD wicks in the Libbey jar? Thanks!

Hi there.  So what I mentioned about the CD18 the other day was way off.  I took @TallTayl   @ErronB and @birdcharm advice regarding testing and melt pools.  That link is here 

I retested with CD10, 12,14 and 16.  So far it looks like CD10 / CD12 is in the lead.  Bright flame, not too big / hot, not too small / dim.  The 14 and 16 look too hot / big flame bouncing around.  Also, this test is with unscented 464.  Once FO is added, I'm assuming that's a game changer too. 

Then I restarted testing again with all my wicks - ECO, Premier, HTP and Cotton Core. 

The Premier 780 and 765 look decent but not really close to the CD's.  The Premier's from what I see are burning more fuel than the others.

ECO looked strong in the beginning.  But by the 3 1/2 hour mark the ECO 8, 10, 12, 14 all went small and dim.  The 8 and 10 I was sure they were going to drown out.  It didn't yet.

However, the HTP 104 and 105 on the first run look pretty good. But not sure how they'll look on the next runs. 

But by going what I read on this forum, CD works best with 464.  So I am hopeful for them.  

I'm starting again tonight.  I ended at the 4 hour mark last night.  Going to go for another 4 hours tonight.  I'll keep you in the loop.

TLDR; CD18 and Premier 795 too big.  Try CD10 or 12 or maybe HTP 104, 105.  The Premiers ash up in the pool and makes it look dirty.   

20 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Generally one or two are stand out winners, so it can be quite simple.

 

i usually pour test jars with no wick.  I poke wicks into skewered holes so I can pull them if they are not performing well. You can cycle through a LOT of wicks with just one container this way. 

Yup.. I've been doing that so far... no wick and skewering.  Going to test in a few hours.  Thank you for your advice @TallTayl!

7 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

 

you can tell pretty early if a wick is too big. Or way too small. 
 

at the middle of the jar you know very well which will be too hot or too small.  
 

the last third of the jar proves wick choices.  

 

Gotcha.  If you were testing multiple wicks, would you pick the "top three" or so?  Then test again once FO is added?

Hi all, 

At what point do you determine that a wick will not work for you?  Can you tell in the first burn, second burn, third burn?  

What do you look for right away and or at what point does a wick look hopeful to you?    

Is there a rule of thumb on how to determine a wick will not work on first burn?

And do you test using the 1 hour per 1" inch diameter test burn?

Currently I'm testing 464 in 12 oz, 3" diameter, 4" tall Libbey tumblers, shown in the middle in the attached pic.   What would you look for with these dimensions? 

I have sample packs of ECO, CD, HTP, Premier 700's, and Cotton Core.  I am learning that certain wicks react differently in certain waxes and that a 1/4" melt pool on the first burn isn't necessarily the best way to test. 

I am aware that testing is the way to go, but curious as to what the masters out here determine which ones make the cut.  

Thanks 

2 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

Too funny, it really doesn't make any sense.  How does this stuff get started?  I see so many people concerned that their candle hasn't reached a full melt pool an hour into burning!!  That's crazy!  I like my candles to burn a long time, the longer it takes for it to reach a full m/p, the better, as long as it eventually melts down.

 

Makes perfect sense! 

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Remember also that your candle may burn much differently in different environments. If you are testing in a cold space, and someone burns it in a warm climate that perfect melt pool in your home could be an Inferno in another home. I learned this the hard way. 

Ha! I can only imagine. Never thought of that. 

1 hour ago, ErronB said:

 

CandleScience don't even know what they're talking about, they throw any safety out the window. The most common example is they always recommend CD18 wicks in 8oz tins for soy. Sure, you'll get that full melt pool, but try burning it further down near the bottom and see all the problems that stem from it. So basically all you are learning from them is: Burn your candle for 4 hours and if the melt pool doesn't reach the edges then wick up. Or if you have a really deep melt pool then wick down. There is SO MUCH MORE to everything, but if you question them they don't even really know themselves, they will feed you textbook noob responses to make it look like they're giving you decent troubleshooting advice which should be enough for anyone to make professional soy candles, it's complete and utter rubbish.

 

You'll learn a lot more by spending time researching your issues on this forum, some things you'll think make no sense, but give them a try anyway you might be surprised. 

Thanks ErronB, I definitely think I found the right place and the right group of people right here.  I hope to learn as much as I can. 

1 minute ago, ErronB said:

I've spoken to candle scientists about their testing procedures, and they told me they don't ever fail candles because of wax hangup on the sides because there is nothing unsafe about it. They will even pass candles that tunnel with a huge wall of wax as long as the wick doesn't drown tor flare up during the burn testing. 

That is interesting.  And what is misleading I guess, is just about every youtube video and candle article that I've read, from candle sites like CandleScience and some others all mention the almighty 1/4" to 1/2"  melt pool test. 

Granted that I'm new to this and have only been researching for the past month or so. 

I wonder if it's a play from the suppliers so that consumers like me buy more and more supplies to get it where they think they need to be. 😄  

25 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I’m not sure who started that actually? And then made it a rule for every single wax type there is. It makes no sense. I know some people like to see the wax burn down evenly, but with that come risks with the middle of the candle.
 

As long as you have a clean burn, a safe burn and acceptable hot throw I don’t know what the reason is to have a quarter inch deep melt pool as a target. To me it’s an upper limit.

Thank you so much! Almost driving ourselves crazy over an eighth of an inch here and there to reach that 1/4" goal on point. Back to the test kitchen it is to retest a few more wicks! 

37 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

If you are getting a quarter inch deep melt pool after your first three hour burn be concerned that by the middle of your jar and toward the end it might get far too hot. I never judge a candle on the first burn unless it is sputtering out.
 

Likewise if you’re using soy it will continue to change for several weeks even months after you make it. The middle is not even close to being done settling.

Thank you TallTayl, 

I see what you're saying.

So in your opinion, what's with the 1/4" melt pool hype on first burn?  Is that more or less a starting point for beginners?  I kind of questioned it myself but just went with it.  

Thank you TallTayl, 

I see what you're saying.

So in your opinion, what's with the 1/4" melt pool hype on first burn?  Is that more or less a starting point for beginners?  I kind of questioned it myself but just went with it.  

Gotcha.  Ok. So I reckon there's no harm then.  Thanks. 

Good to know.  Let me ask you if you don't mind.  Newbie here... 

I performed a 3 hour wick test.  Of the 15 different wicks tested, I found 2 that worked the best.  CD 18 and Premier 795.  Full 1/4" melt pool.  So the remainder soy wax in the other 13 jars, at least a good 6 ounces a piece, I melted at a low heat to reuse.  

Do you see any harm in that?

Thanks, 

Steve

Anytime.  It was a full 1/4" melt pool with both of those wicks.  I want to say that the CD 18 may be a tad better.  And by a tad... I mean a tad.  🙂 

But the only one that came the closest to the CD 18 was the Premier 795.  Keep in mind, these were unscented.  I'm going to test scented tomorrow. 

Of the Premiers, the 785, 795 and 799 all achieved a melt pool.  The 785 about 3/16" and the 799 a good 1/4".  However, the 799 wasted a bit more wax / fuel than the 795. 

So the best to me was the 795 which was almost, if not, equal to the CD 18.   

Hi all,

What do you do with all your unscented wax after you're done with wick testing?

For me, I have been tipping them over in the oven, on a rack, and let them drip into a roasting pan, let it harden, remove, then melt again when needed.

Originally I turned the oven on to about 200 - 225 degrees Fahrenheit. But since I was told anything over 200 degrees changes the molecular structure of the soy wax, I have now lowered it to 170 degrees.

Do you have a different method? Do you see any harm in doing this?

Thanks in advance.

Hi there, 

Same boat here.  Same jar, with the same 464 wax.  We did a 3 hour burn test (one hour per diameter inch) with 3 wicks from each company - ECO, CD, HTP, Premier and Cotton Core.  The best out of the 15 we tested was the CD 18 and the Premier 795.  We tested unscented.  We then made a new batch and added FO.  We're going to wait 72 hours (9/23/20) to burn test.  I'll let you know how that turns out.  Try the Premier 700's if you get a chance.