Clear Black

10 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Hey Clear Black, what jars and lids are you using that you don't care for the lids?  Just curious.  You don't have to tell if you don't want to, will understand.

I was just browsing that site again and I really like them but for me I would all for the sheer purpose of not being able to afford to buy such quantity for x amount of pricing it just isn't practical for me as I have waaayyyy too many fragrances and it would cost a fortune.  I would use the company I've been using for years for a label for the face of the jar because I buy with super super pricing but I would be interested in getting these dust covers for the jars I have that don't have a lid but on the dust cover I would not list the scent name and then I could see where it would be cost effective..(I think)....Of course it would be much better to get the bigger quantities for such a little price difference.  Then it would work for me.  But I'm going to check out Zazzle and see if they can do the same thing.  Well I know they can, it's just the sizes they offer which isn't much.  Let us know if you do go with them.  I'd love to see the finished product.  Looks like a very classy company.  Thanks for sharing!

 

Trappeur

Hey Trap! I am currently in the process of packaging and shipping my last batch of candles off to a place that does professional product photography. I tried to do it myself with a light box, and lets just say I will leave the photo stuff to the photo people lol. That whole process will be a month or so til I get the photo files in hand and them if I can build up the courage I will share them here. Im a bit private, but more nervous of sharing my work as I am not a product designer by any means. Just because I think they look cute doesnt mean others will so I tend not to share most of anything *shrugs*  But when/if I do, I will make sure you are the first to know

6 hours ago, Lighten Up said:

My entire business is wholesale, mostly via fundraisers. I do have a few stores, but I just consider that advertising as they really don't give me much return.

 

Our area is flooded with cheaper soy candles, so retailing is difficult. I am happy to wholesale and 'mass produce' a pre-ordered product.

 

Is your above mentioned cost materials only?

Fundraisers for schools? I know most of the schools up in this neck of the woods do a Yankee Candle fundraiser like 3 times a year. Its nuts

1 hour ago, Trappeur said:

Are you talking about the plastic dust covers that snap on?

 

Trappeur

No Trap, more like the cardboard ones that just sit on top of the wax. I know you have seen them, just seems like those plastic ones are the new style, but I would use the cardboard/paperstock ones

Like these: https://normansprintery.com/candle-dust-covers/

Do you find that the scent lingers enough in them a few months after they have been poured? I am trying to decide if I want to ditch my lids and go with a cardboard dust cover.  Actually, in order to get into a retail store in the future I may have to as my lids arent the type you can simply just plop off and smell the candle.

Im just curious if you find that candles w/dust covers retain enough smell a few months after they have been made. Thoughts?

@Trappeur What size jars are you referring to in the above post? Are those your 8oz mason jars that the stores are retailing $26-$28?

Just now, Candybee said:

 

That kind of harassment is something I would take up with the venue's manager. It should not be allowed and they could be kicked out of the show for that.

Agreed 100%, but since it was my very first show ever, and my mom was next to me selling her knitted baby blankets, I decided to just laugh it off and give that lady her moment.  Luckily it wasnt crowded and during a lull near lunch time so only a few customers were nearby. 

22 hours ago, TallTayl said:

No matter where I order wax from the boxes are busting at the seams. Would not bother me with soy except that the inner blue bags are never sealed closed. They are just half way folded. One of these days I will have a huge mess on my hands. 

This, sooooo much this. I just wish they would zip tie or heck, even scotch tape that blue bag closed. The last box I open flung the soy flakes that had bounced out of the opening all over my kitchen.  My cat seemed to enjoy the taste of a few flakes before I shooed him away lol

On 3/2/2018 at 7:27 PM, Candybee said:

One time when I was doing a fall craft show a snoopy little girl from another candle booth came up to me and told me her mother's candles were edible. I told her you don't eat candles, ever. That shut her up, she was being a little smart azz anyway. Her mom's candles were soy and had fragrance and colorants in them anyway. Don't care how 'natural' a soy manufacturer claims their wax is, its just not something you should eat even without fragrance or other additives.

I had a woman a few booths over from me at a vendor fair come over and start harassing me and asking in a very loud tone "WELL WHAT MAKES YOUR CANDLES SO SPECIAL??!!" "HUH, WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY??!!"  My response that she asked what I had had said was, "Actually nothing maam, my candles arent special at all and Im sure other candles can be bought that are better than mine." Confused the heck outta her and I chuckled as she stormed off back to her booth

On 3/1/2018 at 12:32 PM, jbradshaw said:

I'm also not dependent on this income, I just do it on the side of my day time gig so I don't strictly NEED to do better than break even. . 

This is the main difference for me as well. I still have my 9-5 M-F, although at some point I would love to be able to quit that and pursue this (candle making) full time.  Hats off to you folks who rely on this for full time income. Lots of work and little profit on the wholesale side, makes me wonder what other source of sales are coming in from those who do this full time. So most have their own retail stores? Craft fairs? Etsy? Probably a combination of all to make ends meat

On 3/1/2018 at 10:01 AM, TallTayl said:

Wholesale is not for everyone. It is the same amount of time, materials and work for much less profit per item. I keep a small amount of wholesale for simple cash flow, but don’t love doing it. I learned over time to keep the minimum order quantities and required commitment for annual order volume high enough so I don’t dislike it so much. 

This is the conclusion I may have to grasp unfortunatly. Wholesale may not be for me. It sucks because there is this one really nice store a few hours drive from me that sells candles made by people like us. You walk into the store and you can shop from no less than 20 different candle brands, all hand made and no major brand name/factory made candles. Its such a nice shop and would love to see mine sitting on their shelf. Maybe I can go in there and speak to the owners and hear what they have to say. Maybe shed some insight on how their end of wholesale works so I can better judge if its feasable for me like you said TT.  Thanks.

20 hours ago, olives said:

I recently upped my 14 oz candles to $22 each retail (so, $11 wholesale). I could probably go a smidge higher, and maybe will next year, but right now this was the most conservative jump I could make without shutting out certain longtime customers. Luckily, most of my wholesale accounts have been supportive, and two of them had actually told me last year that I needed to raise my prices. So - don't undervalue your work. 

 

16 oz is a hefty candle and if you're targeting the right customer (one who will pay for quality ingredients and something that's locally, artisan made) and you're branding in a way that conveys the value of your brand, I would personally have no issue with paying $28 - $30 for a good candle that size. 

 

Again - the key is targeting the right customers who will be fine with paying that price for a candle. Not everyone will be, and that's fine - they're not your customer.

 

And yes - definitely try to get that cost per candle down. That's something that all of us small makers struggle with, since most of us don't buy in huge bulk. I just got an order of 3,000 jars delivered to me last week - on 2 pallets - which are currently stacked in my living room and front hallway. So for me it's not only trying to be careful about cash outlay, but I also have serious space issues!

 

 

Thats the thing, Ive been retailing them for $16 and doing really well. I set them at that price knowing that people in my area do not go to craft fairs looking to spend $25+ on a single candle.  I will have to re-think this strategy as I now feel I am selling them too low. This was my issue transitioning into wholesale. How could I make money wholesale by retailing them myself at only $16.  I think if I bump the retail up to around $22 and try to shave $1 of my per candle cost, I will be happier and feel more confident approaching wholesale clients.

Thanks

3 hours ago, TallTayl said:

The buyer will typically want to at least double their investment. 

 

A common basic wholesale equation from the manufacturing side is 2-3 times cost to manufacture. Then retail is twice wholesale. 

 

In your example, you would need to wholesale for at least $14, your buyer would need to sell for at least  $28.

 

there are no hard fast pricing rules, though you need to cover your nut should something happen. Too often people underprice leaving no room for profit to reinvest. 

Thanks a bunch TT. I can always count on your advice and expertise. I know youve done some wholesale business so I was hoping you would respond.

I may have to hold off on the wholesale end till I can drive those prices per candle down a dollar or so. I am also becoming increasingly aware that I may be pricing my candle a bit low. Im hoping to get on to ETSY soon and have been doing a lot of "price matching" and see most sellers there selling their 8oz, 10oz and 12oz candles for more or the same price I was going to sell my 16oz.  I think I have to re-think my selling point . I just dont want to scare away customers with a price point I cannot back up seeing as I am new to the market(ETSY) and have no customer base to justify that price per candle.

Ughhh

As of now, my 16oz candles cost $7 to make. A few of the items are pricey, but I hope to drive that cost more towards the $5 per mark when I can afford to buy raw mats in bigger bulk. So for now im at the $7 per mark. Im thinking they will retail between $18/$20. So if they cost me $7 to make and retail for $20, what should the wholesale buyer be getting from the $13 profit on each candle? Would it be $3 me, $10 buyer? Does the buyer typically get the larger profit portion? Hope this makes sense in any way. I know a bunch of you folks have wholesale accounts and can maybe shed some light here. I really do think the $7 per candle cost is hurting me when it comes to wholesale and I am ok with that knowing I can further cut costs in the future by making bigger material purchases.

Thoughts?

19 hours ago, Kerven said:

It is the Presto fryer. Some people modify theirs to add a faucet. The guide at candletech.com appears to still be available: here

You can purchase them already modified. I found mine (5qt, I believe) on Etsy from AmericanChandler. It didn't have a ball valve with lever handle - just a regular turn handle, which was a bit of a con since it gets so hot, but I make do.

 

You can go to your local Home Depot or Lowes and replace that ball valve with a 90* elbow valve. They come with a rubber handle to avoid getting scorched and cost no more than a few dollars. Get some silicone tape, apply to the threads and then re-thread into presto pot. Would take you all of 10 minutes maybe after getting ball valve out 

Your best bet is to remove the current valve and take it with you. Someone at the home center can match the thread size and get you a proper valve with insulated turn lever

There is a classified section to these forums, you may have better luck there selling the melter. Maybe add some photos and description of it as well. 

I hate to say this, but with a 48 hr cure time, these tests are fairly useless.  They will not be true to anything sadly, whether testing for scent throw or container burn.  Sorry to be the pessimist here, but I fear you are wasting your time and materials.

Has anyone used Zinc Insurance? It was the first link TT originally placed in this topic. https://insuranceforartists.com/#msie

I just used their instant quote feature and it appears it would be less than $500/yr. Which seems pretty good. It also appears they work with you as many times as needed with the CoI's

"Some of the shows and exhibitions in which you participate may require proof that you carry liability insurance. We will issue your Certificate of Insurance as evidence of coverage (free of charge) as many times as necessary during the policy term, including listing the show as an Additional Insured if required."

Which is what I was looking for in the first place

3 hours ago, morethanrubies said:

I've changed my settings multiple times and i still do not get alerts when people post, so here I was thinking nobody responded yet haha.

 

Thank you to everyone for you compliments about my packaging.  I did want to clear up that I do have the lids labeled with scent name.  As seen here - I decided to go this route because I like a candle that I can set out like  a decor piece.  I can't stand busy jar labeling, personally so I went with a lid label and classic jar label.

Ok, disregard everything i said, seeing the tops labeled with the scent name changes everything. Well, well done on the packaging. Kudos to you for such a good job

2 hours ago, morethanrubies said:

I have been making candles for 9 years, I started when I lived in FL and had a pretty good customer base.  I tried building new customers in Indiana (where I'm from and where we moved to) in 09.  That was sort of a struggle.  I sort of gave up but I have standing order every fall for 14 dozen candles.  This year I thought "This is dumb. I am buying just enough for this order every year and our own personal use and I DO make great candles.  The person that has this big order won't even use other candles!"  So - being a graphic designer background, I decided to re-brand, and although (I think) I have a marketable brand/packaging, I've been out of the game for awhile and I'm socially so awkward (working on that lol)  Hubby is super proud of the new look that he was showing it off at work and got a huge response.  But they want want to sample, which is natural.

 

With all that said, I really want to make more of an effort to get into shops.  So when the ladies at hubby's job asked for smellies, it got me to thinking.  What can I come up with so I always have a sample of every scent I carry that would be portable. 

 

Also, when approaching far off places (other states, cities, etc.) what do you send for samples.  Full size product/packaging?  How do you know who's serious before you send "money" out the door?  I saw a company that has a meh/mediocre look (imo) and I was shocked to see on their website that they have a crap ton of retail locations, so whatever, they are doing - they are doing it well!  I have attached photos of the new look.

 

 

One thing that stands out to me immediately is the lack of fragrance name on the front of the candle. If thats the look you desire, so be it. But as a consumer whom myself has purchased many a candle, its always nice seeing it up front and in your face as to what scent is lurking inside. Otherwise, the customer is left wondering or has to ask...which believe it or not may end up losing you a few sales.  If you are a graphic designer, can you maybe alter the AI file a bit and add a fragrance name? Or is it just the look you want. Which again, is a good look I must say but I still feel at least a fragrance name is needed.

By the way, where do you get your offset boxes printed at?

13 minutes ago, Kerven said:

Interesting tidbit I ran across while looking at the coconut83 MSDS at Accu-Blend: it mentions paraffin. It also references CFR title 21 section 172.886, which deals with the use of petroleum wax in foods. I think it's safe to assume that it may contain a bit of paraffin or petrolatum. That's alright for me, Candlewic's did too.

 

Straight coconut oil sounds like something to look into. I can only think of a few things that could harden it and raise the melt point. None of them are particularly cost efficient.

 

This coconut83 stinks. I don't like it.

13 minutes ago, ShineOn said:

Interesting, I haven't thought of that. How are your tests coming out and what percentage of soy to coconut oil are you using? 

I test with only 444 as that is the wax I use regularly so take this as it applies to your waxes how you choose. With that said...

Using a ratio of 444:Co92 I have tested 50:50, 60:40, 70:30 and 40:60 respectively.  The 50:50 and 40:60 were way too soft. Just too much Co92. Here in coastal Maine it was a VERY hot day yesterday at 60*f (yes, that is hot for us folk) I placed a tin of 50:50 and 40:60 outside on my truck hood to expose it to some hotter, direct heat. The Co92 within 30 minutes was "seeping" out of the wax which indicated it was going to be way to soft to ship in summer climates. Now mind you these tests are less than 2 days old. The 60:40 ratio was where things started to firm up a bit. More soy obviously. So I looked at the 60:40 and the 70:30 side by side and thats when I noticed something interesting. All along in the ratios up til the 70:30 the tops of the wax, even after a few days cure, were still "greasy" to the touch. I contributed this to the Co92 being a low melt point (92*, hence the name Co92). But once I looked and touched the 70:30 it was no longer this way. It was much, much dryer on top and felt like a normal 444 top in the sense of feel. Regardless of ratio the tops are smooth as glass at a hot pour of 160*-170*. I really wasnt paying attention to when I poured because it really didnt matter tbh. I poured a few at 160, 165 and some at 170 and all the tops were glass like. Adhesion to wicks were perfect, and no seperation from the 8oz tins as of yet.

These tests were strictly to test wax consistency in the above blend ratios and nothing else. I stuck a wick in there only to see how the blended wax formed around it while cooling. This years batch of 444 has given me new headaches of wax seperation from the wick and is a leading factor for me to finally rid of pure soy and go the blend route. I like 444, its easy to work with in flake form, its costs effective and I am familiar with it. This Co92 however seems to have cured a lot of the cosmetic flaws of the soy. I just hope it will help a teeny bit with HT seeing as that is lacking with soy lately as well.

On 10/19/2017 at 1:43 PM, Waxxy said:

Does anyone know where to find colored tip wooden matches and match striker paper in bulk?

 

 

For matches you can try: https://www.etsy.com/shop/MatchHouse?ref=l2-shopheader-name

And paper I found: https://www.etsy.com/listing/514280214/match-striker-sheet-match-strike-paper?ref=listing-shop-header-1

Hope it helps

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

You say that as if I don't already have a lab coat and nerdy lab glasses 🤓

I hesitated writing that knowing you just might! 

Just now, TallTayl said:

@Kerven wanted to add, beeswax tends to leave big, giant cracks with just coconut. The fatty acids need something to plasticize the blend to prevent cleaving between the crystals as they form. 

Can somebody ELI5 (explain like i'm 5) what she just said? O.o 

Just now, TallTayl said:

@Kerven I smelled really old tallow when first opening the bag. I know it is supposed to be all "botanical" but it sure smelled like cow.

 

@Clear Black I''m in the middle of testing other "botanical" waxes, like candelila, carnauba, ozokerite, etc. with 415 soy. Planning to move on to coconut next. The challenge is ensuring the blend works well over the long term. You know how much I LOVE analysis by doing.

Lol TT. Sometimes I think you like testing more than actually making candles and selling. Something tells me we all should chip in and get you a white lab coat and nerdy black glasses 

For anyone interested, why not test with pure Coconut oil instead? Its a matter of choice sure, but do you really know the exact blend %'s of what is in Coconut 83 wax? The description reads, "Our Coconut 83 wax is an all natural container blend. This wax is predominately coconut blended with vegetable and soy waxes." But at what % are those additives at? And what exactly are they? How can you possibly test not knowing exactly what all ingredients are and how much? Just a thought..and just my 2 cents worth on this topic thats all.

I asked those questions to myself and decided to go the route of just Coconut 92 oil. I needed to think of the end game of buying in bulk as well. The lowest I see Co83 selling for is ~$1.70/lb. I can get Co92 for lower than ~$1.40/lb. Thats a decent savings when buying 500+lbs, plus the added benefit of knowing its Coconut oil with no vegetable or soy based additives. This way my tests are more on point and I can know what the final formula consists of.

Anyways, enough rambling lol. I'm sure you folks are doing great in your tests, it just made me wonder why I am the only one it seems testing straight Coconut oil. Maybe I shouldnt be? I dunno..I need my coffee

Link to BA's Co92 for anyone wanting a look: https://www.bulkapothecary.com/coconut-oil-92-degree/