Giving Up!!! // Will PAY for help!!!

[jeanie353]

Beth, Holly, hmmm. Don't know how to respond. We use Status jars as one of our two line jars, and it's great. This is from repeat customers of the jar and our own test burning. We order by the pallet, btw.

I don't order by the pallet, use Madison (similar to Status), and Apothecary 10 oz and 16 oz. Always, the Apothecary jars have a better HT than the Madison poured out of the same batch using the same type wicks.

I'll continue to use the Madison for those customers who prefer a sleek jar vs the look of the Apothecary but otherwise I'd not use them due to the loss of HT.

Edited September 11, 2012 by jeanie353
additional

[MrsPacNW]

Is it possible that Miss Lauren has a bad case of candle nose? (I do that with coffee scents. I can't smell the coffee in candles..I love the smell of coffee! But I don't pick it up in my candles.) Are you letting someone else test burn your candle under strict instruction in their home?

I don't know how all of you do this wax blending. I'd not have the patience for that.

I use Enchanted Lites Container..the original. I've been using it for over 10 years. Started with and tested others...along the way..but stay with EL..from case to case it's the most consistent wax I've found over all these years. I don't dye..I understand that soy has a mind of it's own and has it's quirks. I only use oils that throw in it. And I mean if it doesn't scent most of my house(house is small) in a tiny jelly jar tester..I don't waste my time. If it doesn't throw the next day after pouring..I don't go further.

However, all that said..I don't put candles on shelves in stores..I don't have a web site....I sell to a very small select group..and gift more than I sell.

I think you may have overwhelmed yourself at this point.

I'd pull back..pick one wax...pick a few of your favorite scents and go from there.

[rjdaines]

Maybe I didn't read some of the comments on this thread right but here are just a few of my observations.

Lipped jars are hotter than straight sided - the lip tends to trap heat and makes the wax warmer and therefore throw better. These jars are harder to wick for some folks.

Straight-sided jars burn a little cooler because hear escapes more easily and can be a challenge to wick because they do burn hotter going from halfway to the bottom. I wick for the second half of the burn and enjoy the enhanced HT from this point on. A huge, sooty flame for the second half of the burn spoils the enjoyment and would make me less prone to buy another.

Double wicks in an apothecary (lipped) jar will give a great HT because of the extra heat. For example with 4630 I use 2 Eco-1s and those are still on the too hot side but the HT is amazing. Temp of the MP and the size of the MP are the key factors. The rest is all compromise between the aesthetics of the burn, flame size and height, flame dancing, sooting...

Of the waxes the OP mentioned I have used CB-A (no HT for me), PB (good HT but didn't like the wax), and IGI 6006 (good HT but didn't like the wax) I ended up not using any of those. One concern is that so many waxes and FO have been used that efforts were diluted and the goal never attended because of this. I don't know all the waxes listed but it looks like the OP was trying both soy and paraffin, working on both would be a huge challenge. Pick one wax, paraffin, soy, or parasoy and work with that.

[Holly]

Maybe I didn't read some of the comments on this thread right but here are just a few of my observations.

Lipped jars are hotter than straight sided - the lip tends to trap heat and makes the wax warmer and therefore throw better. These jars are harder to wick for some folks.

Straight-sided jars burn a little cooler because hear escapes more easily and can be a challenge to wick because they do burn hotter going from halfway to the bottom. I wick for the second half of the burn and enjoy the enhanced HT from this point on. A huge, sooty flame for the second half of the burn spoils the enjoyment and would make me less prone to buy another.

Double wicks in an apothecary (lipped) jar will give a great HT because of the extra heat. For example with 4630 I use 2 Eco-1s and those are still on the too hot side but the HT is amazing. Temp of the MP and the size of the MP are the key factors. The rest is all compromise between the aesthetics of the burn, flame size and height, flame dancing, sooting...

Of the waxes the OP mentioned I have used CB-A (no HT for me), PB (good HT but didn't like the wax), and IGI 6006 (good HT but didn't like the wax) I ended up not using any of those. One concern is that so many waxes and FO have been used that efforts were diluted and the goal never attended because of this. I don't know all the waxes listed but it looks like the OP was trying both soy and paraffin, working on both would be a huge challenge. Pick one wax, paraffin, soy, or parasoy and work with that.

Exactly! That is what I was saying above regarding straight sided jars vs. necked/lipped jars or even smaller straight sided jars. I also agree and said the same thing about how the throw will get better fruther down the jar. It is frustrating having to wait though. The jars are beautiful, but for me in a large area it does not pass for scent throw for me. There are some scents out there that would do better for scent throw in those jars, but finding them takes a lot more time. I have tested many jars and this is definitely my finding. I have burned many jars from other companies and this is also my findings.

[Holly]

P.S. She was testing different wax to find the ones that she likes the best. She has not yet chosen the one that she wants to focus on as far as I know. Once she finds a was that seems to produce the best hot throw and burns the best for her, she can then start focusing on fragrances that throw well in it. However, it is good to know the jar you want to use because some wax will not do as well in some jars as others....just depends on the application. There are several waxes that tend to do well in just about any jar but there are also some waxes that do not.....like the soy I used...did not do well in single wicked jars.

[rjdaines]

Exactly! That is what I was saying above regarding straight sided jars vs. necked/lipped jars or even smaller straight sided jars. I also agree and said the same thing about how the throw will get better fruther down the jar. It is frustrating having to wait though. The jars are beautiful, but for me in a large area it does not pass for scent throw for me. There are some scents out there that would do better for scent throw in those jars, but finding them takes a lot more time. I have tested many jars and this is definitely my finding. I have burned many jars from other companies and this is also my findings.

Agreed, some FO work better in some containers but not others. I use Elemental Jars, small and large Status and then 8 oz and 15 oz Apothecary. It's not too much work to make a batch and pour into most of those. The large Status does seem to give the least bang for the buck but not in all cases.

[Holly]

I don't order by the pallet, use Madison (similar to Status), and Apothecary 10 oz and 16 oz. Always, the Apothecary jars have a better HT than the Madison poured out of the same batch using the same type wicks.

I'll continue to use the Madison for those customers who prefer a sleek jar vs the look of the Apothecary but otherwise I'd not use them due to the loss of HT.

I used double wicked apothecaries and Madisons as well and my findings are the same as yours. I believe I found that the Madisons have a slightly better hot throw than the status jars but I worked longer on the Madisons so had more time to find the right oils. I think the Madisons are a tad narrower.

[HorseScentS]

Exactly! That is what I was saying above regarding straight sided jars vs. necked/lipped jars or even smaller straight sided jars. I also agree and said the same thing about how the throw will get better fruther down the jar. It is frustrating having to wait though. The jars are beautiful, but for me in a large area it does not pass for scent throw for me. There are some scents out there that would do better for scent throw in those jars, but finding them takes a lot more time. I have tested many jars and this is definitely my finding. I have burned many jars from other companies and this is also my findings.

I agree, and that's why I'm not interested in working with the sleek, contemporary straight jars that have no lip or no shoulder, even though I like the look better myself.

Edited September 11, 2012 by HorsescentS

[ChrisR]

I've used the status and cylinder Libbey jars for many, many years and get a great throw for all of them. I double wick the 12 oz. status with (2) LX 8's and the cylinder jars with (2) LX 10's in my own blend of soy/paraffin. When I started making candles, I used apothecary jars and hated the 'neck' as in my opinion it caused too much sooting the bottom half of the jar. To each his own though, that's why they make so many different jars!

[laurenscandlebakery]

Thanks everyone again for all of the responses! I think I'm going to essentially start over and post all my notes and stuff on here. I'm going to start out with my J-50 and use that until I run out or have tried almost all of my fragrances in it. I still have lots of 8 oz Status jars left, so I'm gonna try to make those work for now. Even though they might not give the BEST throw, I'm thinking I should be able to find a few scents that can smell up a room in it. I'd be satisfied if I could smell it at all, actually!! I have five eco-6 wicks left, so I'm going to start with those. From the other testing I've done with the status jars, that seems to be an appropriate size. Also, I've seen that ecos were recommended for J-50 for whatever reason lol. I think I'm gonna order more to do more appropriate testing, but for today...

I'm just gonna make five candles with these components (reiterated): J-50 wax, 8 oz status jar, and an eco-6 wick.

What I need all ya'lls help on is choosing the first FIVE fragrance oils to begin testing with!!!! I'm going to list every single fragrance oil that I own lol. Help me pick five that you know are good throwers for you.

*Deep breath* Here we go....

Millcreek - Sweet Orange & Chili Pepper

Millcreek - Berry Creme Brulee

Millcreek - Juicy Watermelon

Millcreek - Monkey Farts

Millcreek - Campfire Smores

Millcreek - Butt Naked

Millcreek - Cinnamon Vanilla

Millcreek - Artic Air

Millcreek - Extreme Vanilla

Millcreek - Lemon Drop

Peak - Wild Mountain Honey

Peak - Pink Sugar

Peak - German Chocolate Cake

Peak - Bartlett Pear

Peak - Banana Nut Bread

Peak - Fudge Brownie

Peak - Jasmine

Peak - White Tea & Ginger

Peak - Botanical Orchid & Nectar

Peak - Birthday Cake

Nature's Garden - Frosted Lime Cupcake

Nature's Garden - Frosted Peak Tops

Nature's Garden - Blueberry Muffin

Nature's Garden - Red Velvet Cake

Nature's Garden - Apple Pie (Old Version)

Nature's Garden - Breezes & Sunshine

Candle Science - Pumpkin Souflee

Candle Science - Peanut Butter Cookies

Candle Science - Coconut Lime

Candle Science - Caribbean Teakwood

Candle Science - Jamaica Me Crazy

AH/RE - Sugar Cookie

AH/RE - Amish Quilt

AH/RE - Little Black Dress

Lonestar - Pumpkin Pie Spice

Lonestar - Cappuccino Mocah

Lonestar - Fudge Brownie

Lonestar - Leather

Lonestar - Blueberry Cobbler

Lonestar - Birthday Cake

Lonestar - Downy April Fresh

Lonestar - Peppermint Bark

Lonestar - Apple Cinnamon

Lonestar - Patchouli

Lonestar - Vanilla Bean

Lonestar - Cool Tropical Breezes

Lonestar - Monkey Farts

48 fragrances total.....

Help? Please? lol

[Holly]

I've used the status and cylinder Libbey jars for many, many years and get a great throw for all of them. I double wick the 12 oz. status with (2) LX 8's and the cylinder jars with (2) LX 10's in my own blend of soy/paraffin. When I started making candles, I used apothecary jars and hated the 'neck' as in my opinion it caused too much sooting the bottom half of the jar. To each his own though, that's why they make so many different jars!

Yes, I agree, if you double wick them, the throw will be good! My findings were based on a one wick Status jar vs. a one wicked necked jar or smaller jar or a double wicked jar. I also agree on the neck and sooting. I prefer straight sided jars in some ways. However, the soy I used in the apothecaries was very clean burning so it was not a big issue. I am working on a double wicked Libbey Cylinder bowl. I like them because they are straight sided. I am finding though that it has a better scent throw with triple wicks than double wicked whereas the necked apothecary does great with just two wicks and I would NEVER triple a wick an apothecary because of the depth and neck.....would get WAY too hot.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[HorseScentS]

Yes, I agree, if you double wick them, the throw will be good! My findings were based on a one wick Status jar vs. a one wicked necked jar or smaller jar or a double wicked jar. I also agree on the neck and sooting. I prefer straight sided jars in some ways. However, the soy I used in the apothecaries was very clean burning so it was not a big issue. I am working on a double wicked Libbey Cylinder bowl. I like them because they are straight sided. I am finding though that it has a better scent throw with triple wicks than double wicked whereas the necked apothecary does great with just two wicks and I would NEVER triple a wick an apothecary because of the depth and neck.....would get WAY too hot.

I want to make double wicked candles, because I agree the HT is better, but I haven't been able to double wick any jar with a lip or a neck in 4627 without the wicks drowning. Maybe it will work in a Libbey Cylinder jar from Hobby Lobby. But, in those I'd really rather triple wick.

Edited September 11, 2012 by HorsescentS

[rjdaines]

I hear a lot of technical complaints about 4627 which I don't have with 4630. Is 4627 that much better than 4630 that it is worth the aggravation?

[Holly]

Hi Lauren,

I would have to look at the Eco 6's and I can't recall the wicking on the J-50 since it has been so long for me with that wax. But, I think the Eco 6 sounds a little small. I would have to check on it and since it has been a while since I tested the J-50 and since I was double wicking with zincs at that time, I am not the best to tell you on that. I will say though, that when I used another wax in the status jar I used a bigger wick than that....even up to a HTP 104 for some fragrances....I used 9% oil though. Maybe the wick is some of your problem it if it too small. How was the flame? Did you let it burn for awhile before determining scent strength?

On the oils, there may be others on here that will know what throws well in the J-50. It has been awhile for me with that wax. But from looking at your list, I would say that Peaks Bontanical Orchard & Nectar should do well. I get a great throw with that one in the Clarus 70/30. However, it is a double wicked candle that I have been testing. I also got a great throw with that scent in the pure soy candles I offered....double wicked. I think it would be one of the better oils to try for scent throw. Another one would be Millcreeks's Cinnamon Vanilla since it is getting close to fall. I got a good throw with that one in my pure soy, especially since it is a vanilla. I also got a good scent throw in a little tealight made with the 70/30.

I don't use Lonestar. I have tested some oils from there way back but can't remember much on them.

Here are the other ones that I think may work for you that did well for me in soy and parasoys:

Peaks Birthday Cake - I think this would be best in a double wicked candle

CS's Pumpkin Souffle....never purchased this but tested it and I believe it did well in a wicked candle

Peaks Banana Nut Bread

MC's Artic Air....I have not tested this in a candle but it is killer strong in a tart. I just know this would probably do well in most wax and in a wicked candle

MC's Berry Creme Brulee

I do not currently use Nature's Garden but am thinking about adding them. I have tested and used some fragrances from them a long time ago. I have not used the ones you listed but heard great things about the Frosted Lime Cupcakes in tarts. Not sure if I would try that one first in a wicked candle. Red Velet Cake from other suppliers are never strong enough for me in candles. I think I have tried at least two.

I know many have great results with Amish Quilt but it was not strong enough for me in wicked candles, but that was determined in a pure soy candle. It may not be the best to start off with. Also, Sugar Cookies can be light, especially in one wicked candles. I use Peaks.

White Tea and Ginger may do well. Depends on the wax. I had some good results in a one wicked candle.

Love Peaks Pink Sugar, but have not tested it in a wicked candle. I would think it may be one that could be on the lighter side in a one wicked candle.

That will give you some suggestions to start with.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

P.S. I think the two that should most likely do well in the one wicked candle would be Botanical Orchard and Nectar and Artic Air. I will look again. Possibly White Tea and Ginger as well and Berry Creme Brulee. There are several oils on your list that I have not tested so others will most likely be able to give you more suggestions off your list.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

I want to make double wicked candles, because I agree the HT is better, but I haven't been able to double wick any jar with a lip or a neck in 4627 without the wicks drowning. Maybe it will work in a Libbey Cylinder jar from Hobby Lobby. But, in those I'd really rather triple wick.

I have the same problem with the blends or parasoy in necked jars. I could double wick great in the necked jars with the soy I used. That is why I am now testing the cylnder jar with the 70/30 wax. I could not double wick that wax in the 16 oz or taller apothecaries. The wicks would drown as well. I do not want to go back to pure soy....too time-consuming.

[Holly]

I hear a lot of technical complaints about 4627 which I don't have with 4630. Is 4627 that much better than 4630 that it is worth the aggravation?

I agree, the 4627 seemed harder to wick to me as well. I thought the throw was better with the 4630.

[HorseScentS]

I agree, the 4627 seemed harder to wick to me as well. I thought the throw was better with the 4630.

I've never tried 4630, but the IGI comparison said that 4630 has "much of the hot throw of 4627," so I don't just want "much of the hot throw" I want all of it. That said, 4630 double wicked would have a better HT than 4627 single wicked, right?

[Holly]

I've never tried 4630, but the IGI comparison said that 4630 has "much of the hot throw of 4627," so I don't just want "much of the hot throw" I want all of it. That said, 4630 double wicked would have a better HT than 4627 single wicked, right?

For some reason I never really experienced that kicker hot throw with the 4627, But then again, I did not test it real long. I did not really like the consistency of it. I could handle the mess but prefer wax that is a little firmer in the candle. That was funny when you said......"I want all of it". Have you compared the two in throw in general....in a single wicked candle? I remembering thinking that the 4630 had a better throw for some reason. I think the 4630 double wicked would have a better scent throw than the 4627 single wicked. I will say though, I prefer the slower meltpool time with the 4627 when double wicked. But, if the jar is too tall the flames will get weak. For me the 4630 always got too deep of a meltpool way too quick whe I double wicked it in the 10 oz. apothecary, but if you try it in the open cylinder jar, it should work ok double wicked. Triple wicked would be overkill with that wax...would get too deep too quick.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[ksranch]

Lauren... Pink Sugar and White Tea & Ginger should throw great for you in your J50

[ChandlerWicks]

Yes, the CT alone is worth it.

Peak - Pink Sugar

I hear a lot of technical complaints about 4627 which I don't have with 4630. Is 4627 that much better than 4630 that it is worth the aggravation?

Edited September 11, 2012 by ChandlerWicks

[HorseScentS]

For some reason I never really experienced that kicker hot throw with the 4627, But then again, I did not test it real long. I did not really like the consistency of it. I could handle the mess but prefer wax that is a little firmer in the candle. That was funny when you said......"I want all of it". Have you compared the two in throw in general....in a single wicked candle? I remembering thinking that the 4630 had a better throw for some reason. I think the 4630 double wicked would have a better scent throw than the 4627 single wicked. I will say though, I prefer the slower meltpool time with the 4627 when double wicked. But, if the jar is too tall the flames will get weak. For me the 4630 always got too deep of a meltpool way too quick whe I double wicked it in the 10 oz. apothecary, but if you try it in the open cylinder jar, it should work ok double wicked. Triple wicked would be overkill with that wax...would get too deep too quick.

I haven't tried 4630, but I read about technical problems with that one a lot too. I think 4630 and 4627 each have their pros and cons, so I'm just going to learn to master the 4627. I think 4627 can be double wicked and triple wicked in containers that are not too tall and don't have a neck or lip. I'm going to try it soon.

[rjdaines]

I haven't tried 4630, but I read about technical problems with that one a lot too. I think 4630 and 4627 each have their pros and cons, so I'm just going to learn to master the 4627. I think 4627 can be double wicked and triple wicked in containers that are not too tall and don't have a neck or lip. I'm going to try it soon.

I double and triple wick 4630. My largest container is 5 inches.

[HorseScentS]

I double and triple wick 4630. My largest container is 5 inches.

Is the HT really strong in those?

[Holly]

I double and triple wick 4630. My largest container is 5 inches.

Yes, with the 5 inch + container triple wicking with the 4630 is possible. How long can you burn it before the meltpool gets too deep? Are they the Cylinder jars?

I bet the throw is great with the triple wicks and even the double wicks.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly