Giving Up!!! // Will PAY for help!!!

[laurenscandlebakery]

Hello all! I have been testing and making candles since December and I am seriously on the verge of throwing in the towel. On paper, I am doing everything right! I have tried I think seven different waxes (soy, paraffin, and blended), thirty fragrance oils, zinc eco and cd wicks. I heat and pour at the recommended temps on supplier's websites or ones that have been recommended on here. I have tried 6-10% fragrance oil. The fragrance oils are from Millcreek, Nature's Garden, Lonestar, Candle Science, and Peak. NO MATTER WHAT I DO, I cannot get a scent throw from a candle!!!! You can only smell it if your nose is right above the flame. And I know it's not candle nose because my boyfriend has never been able to smell it either. I've given some to my parents as well and they haven't been able to smell a thing either.

I have invested so much money and time into this that it breaks my heart that I might have to give up on this. I just can't pour more money into something with zero successful candles to show for it. Therefore, I am willing to pay somebody to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong!! I live in the Houston, Texas area and I will seriously pay somebody $100 (or more...negotiable) to meet up with me and show me how to make candles. I can bring all of the supplies, we don't have to use yours or anything. It should just be a one time thing. I know a wwwhoolleee lot about making candles, just can't make a good smelling one. And you don't have to tell me all your secrets or reveal secret fragrance oil blends...I just need to see what I am doing wrong. There has to be SOMETHING since I have tried so many different combinations of things.

Reply to this thread or pm me. Please please please!

[franu61]

not in your area but just wanted to say i am sorry you are going thru this, hope someone can help

[Holly]

I am sorry you are having trouble developing a candle that you are happy with. It can be a very long process finding all the right combinations. I only have a few minutes but thought I would ask you a few questions.

What types of wax (brand names, i.e. IGI 4630, etc.) have you tried?

How many different oils have you tried in each wax? I know you said 30 but did you try all 30 in all different types of wax you tried?

If you did try several in each type of wax, then you should have some success with some of them, but sometimes one has to go through quite a few to find the ones that will throw in a particular wax. I will say a candle maker can go through tons of fragrances to find the ones that will give a great scent throw in the wax they have chosen.

What kind of jar are you using? I find that different jars will give different scent throws.

Are you single wicking? I find that I get better results with scent throw when I have a jar that I can double wick vs. a single wicked jar. However, you still should be able to get something to throw well in a single wicked jar. I just find that I find less that will throw as strong in a single wicked jar compared to a double wicked jar.

Is your flame healthy....not too weak or too large?

You definitely have ordered oils from companies that offer excellent oils. Let us know the different wax you have used and the fragrances from each place.

Hang in there. I am sure you will get it right eventually.

~Holly

Hello all! I have been testing and making candles since December and I am seriously on the verge of throwing in the towel. On paper, I am doing everything right! I have tried I think seven different waxes (soy, paraffin, and blended), thirty fragrance oils, zinc eco and cd wicks. I heat and pour at the recommended temps on supplier's websites or ones that have been recommended on here. I have tried 6-10% fragrance oil. The fragrance oils are from Millcreek, Nature's Garden, Lonestar, Candle Science, and Peak. NO MATTER WHAT I DO, I cannot get a scent throw from a candle!!!! You can only smell it if your nose is right above the flame. And I know it's not candle nose because my boyfriend has never been able to smell it either. I've given some to my parents as well and they haven't been able to smell a thing either.

I have invested so much money and time into this that it breaks my heart that I might have to give up on this. I just can't pour more money into something with zero successful candles to show for it. Therefore, I am willing to pay somebody to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong!! I live in the Houston, Texas area and I will seriously pay somebody $100 (or more...negotiable) to meet up with me and show me how to make candles. I can bring all of the supplies, we don't have to use yours or anything. It should just be a one time thing. I know a wwwhoolleee lot about making candles, just can't make a good smelling one. And you don't have to tell me all your secrets or reveal secret fragrance oil blends...I just need to see what I am doing wrong. There has to be SOMETHING since I have tried so many different combinations of things.

Reply to this thread or pm me. Please please please!

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[Beth]

Lauren! Girl, I have never seen you even quiver! Fingers crossed for you

[laurenscandlebakery]

@franu61 -Thank you so much! I hope so too

@Holly - I've tried C-3, J-50, EcoSoya CB Advanced, IGI 6006 for wicked candles. Suzy's combo Xcel & PB and KY's Parasoy Tart Blend for tarts. By the way, I should mention that I've had *some* "success" with tarts in the sense that they'll give off a scent, but they only last 4-6 hours versus what most of you are getting. I have been using the status jar, 8 oz. I have only single wicked because a double wick isn't necessary for the diameter of the jar. I've tried SO many different sizes and types of wicks, because I assumed this was the problem. I have had wicks that were too large (still smelled NOTHING), wicks that were too small, and wicks that seemed to be right because of the melt pool but still produced zero scent throw.

@Beth Haha! Thank you!

Edited September 11, 2012 by laurenscandlebakery

[tam1116]

Are you absolutely sure you are adding enough fragrance oil. Are you using a scale to weigh the wax and FO?

[scifichik]

Don't give up! When you find that combination of fragrance and wax that works, and you have that glorious smell in a room---it will be worth it!

You've tried a variety of waxes, so perhaps it's the fragrance that is the problem. One of the first lessons I learned was that not all fragrance makers produce the same quality oils, and not all fragrance oils work well with soy (as it is one of the waxes you mentioned). I especially appreciate Candle Science and their soy rating, which is a good indicator of whether that fragrance oil will be strong or weak in soy wax. Peak's also gives a recommendation as to whether their fragrance is happy with soy.

I'm sure if you provide more info (wax type and amount used, what temp you melted to, what temp you added fragrance (and how much fragrance added), and what temp you poured) someone will help you find that "aha!" moment.

Wishing you much success from Missouri!

[Holly]

@franu61 -Thank you so much! I hope so too

@Holly - I've tried C-3, J-50, EcoSoya CB Advanced, IGI 6006 for wicked candles. Suzy's combo Xcel & PB and KY's Parasoy Tart Blend for tarts. By the way, I should mention that I've had *some* "success" with tarts in the sense that they'll give off a scent, but they only last 4-6 hours versus what most of you are getting. I have been using the status jar, 8 oz. I have only single wicked because a double wick isn't necessary for the diameter of the jar. I've tried SO many different sizes and types of wicks, because I assumed this was the problem. I have had wicks that were too large (still smelled NOTHING), wicks that were too small, and wicks that seemed to be right because of the melt pool but still produced zero scent throw.

@Beth Haha! Thank you!

I have never tested the EcoSoya CB Advanced but have read that it is not the best throwing wax out there and much harder to get the right oils to throw. I tested IGI 6006 and J-50 a long time ago but never settled on either of them. I was testing for double wicking. I tested the C-3 but only in a double wicked candle. I ended up going with Calsoy CB-3. It had a great scent throw in double wicked candles. It is not a good soy to use for single wicking though. It burns down before out which is common with soy wax but this wax does this even more.

Since I was burning double wicked candles with a very good scent throw before I started to make candles, it was very hard to satisfy me in the scent throw department. I will say that I did have to hunt pretty well for great throwing oils in the CB-3 Calsoy but I found that it had a higher percentage of oils that would throw well than the other soys I had tried and the throw was stronger than most other soys that I tested as well. It was not as widely used here on the boards and mostly because it is sold mainly on the west coast.

So basically you are saying that you are not even getting a light to medium throw? You can only smell it if you are standing right next to it?

I have tested and used Status jars for special seasonal one wicked candles. I did not use the pure soy for this since the wicking would be almost impossible and I did not like the residue that particular soy would leave on the jar.....not hangup but that milky soy residue. Some soys will do this more than others. I ended up using Calwax CB-30 which at that time had a good scent throw. I at that time preferred it over IGI 6006.

I have to say that I find that Status jars do not produce the best scent throw. I think it may be because it is a non necked jar and wide enough to keep the wax cooler than the necked jars and to me this affects the scent throw...wax does not get hot enough. I also find that the scent throw will get stronger as it burn further down the jar because by that time it does get hotter. Did you test it as a full jar? I find that the Status jars are better for small rooms.

The Clarus 70/30 wax has a great scent throw and even my little tealights that I made would scent up the whole main part of a house if it was the right oil. I used this wax in the tealights and the Roly Poly jars (tealight wicks from CS in the tealight and LX wicks in the Roly Poly jars). I find though that for single wicking with this wax it does not do well with opened necked jars that are too wide. It tends to burn down before out as well and it has to play catch up for a full meltpool in the status jar or Madison jar. It does well in the mason jars, Roly Polys, tealights, and the small little hurricane jars (can't remember the name - an anchor hocking jar), and crissa jars and probably the jelly jars. I would think this wax would do well in mayo jars as well but not the real wide tall ones.

It could be that if your wicking seemed correct and you were giving it enough burn time to throw the scent, it may be that the oils that you tried in the particular wax just did not throw well.

This can be a headache and a half. Testing is a pain in the butt. I personally think that the jar is making it more difficult. You may eventually find some oils to throw but to me it is much harder in those jars to get a scent throw that will do well in a main area. Again, I find that the Status jars are better for small rooms.

Not sure if this helped you at all and may have caused more confusion. If I were you, I would not focus on the EcoSoya CB Advanced anymore in that kind of single wicked jar. It may do ok in a double wicked jar....apothecary....but I have read it is not the easiest wax to work with for scent throw. IGI 6006 is a good wax for that kind of jar, but you may have to try a lot more oils to find strong throwing ones. How many oils did you test in the 6006? This makes a difference. We can go through tons to find the ones that give that great throw. J-50 is a good wax but I cannot remember how the throw was compared to the 6006. I think I liked the J-50 better for throw. I think C-3 would be better in a different type of one wicked jar or double wicked jar.

Are you set on that jar?

~Hollhy

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

P.S. I closed my biz in March of 2010 and just reopened. I had my biz for 5 years. It took me a year to develop my fist line that was ready to sell and even after that I made some changes. I currently am only making scented wax melts and taking it one day at a time. I will develop a new candle line. I do not want continue with the main line I had. It was way too time-consuming and the jars were too expensive and were from New York which killed me on shipping. It is too hard to explain here why my main line was too time-consuming. I have only dabbled a bit with a new line. I am in no hurry.

[Beth]

"I have to say that I find that Status jars do not produce the best scent throw. I think it may be because it is a non necked jar and wide enough to keep the wax cooler than the necked jars and to me this affects the scent throw...wax does not get hot enough. I also find that the scent throw will get stronger as it burn further down the jar because by that time it does get hotter. Did you test it as a full jar?"

So glad to read that......... I can't wick a status jar to save my life, lol.

[Holly]

"I have to say that I find that Status jars do not produce the best scent throw. I think it may be because it is a non necked jar and wide enough to keep the wax cooler than the necked jars and to me this affects the scent throw...wax does not get hot enough. I also find that the scent throw will get stronger as it burn further down the jar because by that time it does get hotter. Did you test it as a full jar?"

So glad to read that......... I can't wick a status jar to save my life, lol.

Yes, it is a pain the the butt to wick, to get that clean jar down the sides and a good scent throw without having a torch. Love the jar but if the throw is not there or the wicking is difficult in the end it is not worth it. They are classy looking. The Madison jar is easier to wick and to me gives a better throw....not by a lot though. They are both better for smaller rooms. I think they make a better seasonal limited addition jar or a small specialty jar with just a few scents....for spas or bathrooms and bedrooms. .

[JanetsCandles]

I like the status jars for palm wax, but haven't had success with Comfort Blend paraffin on it. Think I'm having the same trouble as you, Beth. But comfort blend wicks beautifully in my oval hex jars. Weird.

Anyway, Lauren, I understand the frustration. I'm actually going to suggest that you contact one of your local suppliers (I use Lonestar for some of my stuff. They are in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and are excellent in the help department at times.) I would ask if they are planning to have a class at any point in the near future, or if they have someone you can ask pointed questions about the making of candles to. If you're already a customer, even better (from their point of view).

Now. All that said, you mentioned that you aren't trying to double wick the status jar because the width doesn't justify it. I'm going to suggest a couple options for you. First, try taking one of the candles you've made and heat it with a jar warmer (you probably already know what I'm talking about with this, but if you don't, I'm meaning the flat heaters you can get with some tart melters.) If you still have no throw, check your percentage of FO in the wax. Are you using too much? Too little? If it doesn't change with that, you may have to switch your wax type to a completely different wax. It may be a situation like Beth mentioned that the scent isn't getting warmed enough because of the design of the candle. Like I said, I can get a good throw from Palm Wax, but not paraffin out of those jars. To test that theory, go to Hobby Lobby or some such and get a similar sized jar, but one with a neck, and test your current wax blend, again on the warmer. If you can get a throw like that, you may have to switch jars.

Either way, hope you get something working soon, and don't give up!

[Holly]

Most likely she will get some kind of throw when she puts it on the warmer. I have found many oils that will not throw to well in a wicked candle but does well in a wickless candle on a warmer. Janet, that is a good idea to test it on a warmer. I am pretty sure though that it is the jar that is causing the problem along with the type of wax to some degree. She probably will be able to eventually find some oils that will throw halfway decent but it will have to be a kicker oil. I have always found those jars to do better in a smaller area.

I have tested Palm Wax, and it always seemed like the wax get hotter than other wax...soy, parasoys or paraffin blends. Janet, does it seem this way to you? If so, maybe that is the reason why the palm does well for you in that jar but not the other wax.

[laurenscandlebakery]

@tam1116 Yes ma'am. I use a scale and measure out my fragrance oil by weight instead of volume. I use the scale to measure my wax as well.

@scifichik When I was experimenting with soy wax, I tried to only use fragrances recommended on the thread here about FO for soy wax. I love that Candle Science has the leaf ratings and I also really like that I can read reviews. But thats also an area of frustration. Somebody (on candle science or here) will say that a particular scent had AMAZING hot throw and I will use it and not be able to smell it at all. As far as quantity of wax, I've always made rather small batches. Usually 6-8 oz at a time. I don't have my testing notebook on me at the moment with my temperatures for each wax. I'd generally start at 6% and when I didn't see results, I'd go up slowly to about 10%. Still nothing!

@Holly You're right, CBA was praised for not frosting and for having good glass adhesion but I didn't realize until after I got the wax that scent throw was known to be minimal. With every wax I've tried, I typically get absolutely no scent to vverrryyy little scent. Most of the time, I feel like I'm lighting an unscented candle lol. I'll have to try a different jar. For double wicking, do you like divide the diameter in half and use two wicks that work for that diameter?

@JanetsCandles That's a good idea, about putting the wicked candle on a plate warmer. I'm gonna give that a try! If it does infact smell great on the plate warmer, what could I be doing wrong with the wick? A bigger wick gives wayyy too large of a flame, so I don't think I'm going too small.

Thank you so much for all of your responses!

[Holly]

P.S. again. Another test you can do is.......even though it is not a proper jar to double wick, you could double wick one and see if it improves the throw. You will have to use smaller wicks. If it does not improve the throw, then it is not only the jar, but the combination of wax and fragrance oil. I have seen these jars double wicked but not sure how they do it without over wicking or getting the jar too hot. It would have to be the right kind of wax that does not produce too deep of a meltpool too fast and it would have to be wicked way down. I would not double wick it to sell, but it will give you an idea of the difference between the throw double wicked and single wicked. I have always found double wicked candles to be stronger, especially if the fragrance oil throws well in the wax.

[Holly]

Regarding double wicking, I never really thought about it that way....dividing it in half. It has been so long since I first started to test I forget where I got my base. It depends on the wax really and oil so even if you divide it in half it all comes down to the type of wax, etc. However, the wicks used is usually smaller than if that same jar is wicked with one wick. When double wicking the pure soy (Calsoy CB-3) in the 10 oz. apothecary jars, most of the oils did well with two RRD 40's. In the 16 oz. jars the RRD's 47's were most common. I used 9% oil. I also used Hemp wicks with some oils. Soys can be different though just like other blends and some soys would take smaller wicks or maybe even larger wicks.

I will say, I have NEVER been successful in double wicking the tall apothecaries (16 oz. or larger) in any of the paraffin blends or parasoys. I would get weak flames halfway down in the jar no matter what wick I would put in there. I had much better luck with soy wax for double wicking in taller jars, especially the CB-3 (Calsoy). Now I know why Gold Canyon candles usually get weak flames in their taller apothecaries. It is nuts! Not sure how they keep selling them.

[JanetsCandles]

I have tested Palm Wax, and it always seemed like the wax get hotter than other wax...soy, parasoys or paraffin blends. Janet, does it seem this way to you? If so, maybe that is the reason why the palm does well for you in that jar but not the other wax.

I do get the feel that it's hotter, yes. Fortunately the jar itself seems to handle it decently. The jars are warm to pick up, but they still do alright if I'm using the HTP wicks in my palm. I also do sacrifice a "full" melt pool at the first burn to get it at the second burn. Testing those at first were so frustrating. But it did melt all the way at the second burn, and power burning doesn't soot or drown, either. A couple of my FOs, the flame does get pretty small, but never fully goes out on a power burn, at least until it's supposed to. Goes to show why we burn more than just the once on a tester.

[laurenscandlebakery]

Has anyone had success with Libbey 14.25 oz candle bowls or the Anchor country comfort jar?

Edited September 11, 2012 by laurenscandlebakery

[Holly]

I do get the feel that it's hotter, yes. Fortunately the jar itself seems to handle it decently. The jars are warm to pick up, but they still do alright if I'm using the HTP wicks in my palm. I also do sacrifice a "full" melt pool at the first burn to get it at the second burn. Testing those at first were so frustrating. But it did melt all the way at the second burn, and power burning doesn't soot or drown, either. A couple of my FOs, the flame does get pretty small, but never fully goes out on a power burn, at least until it's supposed to. Goes to show why we burn more than just the once on a tester.

That is great that you got it to work out. I did briefly test palm in the Status jars. I think it is a beautiful jar for that kind of wax....shows the wax well. I ended up getting burned out and stopped the testing. I still have plenty of wax. Someday, I would like to give it another try. I still have some status jars. If I remember correctly, I found that the flame would grow too big.........more so than what it would in other wax. I can't remember now which wicks i tested but I know I did test the wicks that CS sells for Palm wax. Which Palm wax do you have? I tested Glass Glow and the Palm Wax from Swan's candle supplies. I do remember having to allow the candle to tunnel a bit on the first few burn and then it plays catch up. I remember thinking that I would hope that people would burn it long enough for each burn because if they did not it may never catch up.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly

[JanetsCandles]

I do have some flare issues too, but I'm thinking it has to do with how the air gets trapped during recrystalization of the wax after it cools. I end up trimming just after the melt pool starts (extinguishing the wick, then trimming and relighting) and it doesn't have much trouble. I've got it on the warning label to trim to between 1/8 and 1/4 inch for those jars. And it happens with all the glass glow wax, so it's just something really weird going on with the wax, I think.

[David Fields]

Beth, Holly, hmmm. Don't know how to respond. We use Status jars as one of our two line jars, and it's great. This is from repeat customers of the jar and our own test burning. We order by the pallet, btw.

[ChandlerWicks]

So you're ordering by the pallet helps the OP how? Why not share your knowledge with OP, why respond at all if not to help her?

Edited September 11, 2012 by ChandlerWicks

[mzphee]

Hey Lauren I just wanted to encourage you to keep going you will get it, I just got my IGI 6006 to a place that im ok with, but like the others said it doesnt work with all of my FO I carry way more scents in melts. Dont give up, and just my opinion you dont have to pay anyone you have a wealth of information here. Im not an expert but I will help you research once you find a wax that you think you may like. Stella would always post that you have to learn the wax..lol I never knew what they meant until I learned my tart blend wax.. and soy does have a mind of its own....lol .... I have tested one jar from the beginning 7oz elemental jars now that I have it, im ready to find and test a larger jar to add to my line. so I do understand...keep pusing girl you can do it

[ChandlerWicks]

Lauren, I have the worst trouble smelling my candles. I can smell them in melts but not the actual candle most of the time. I have some FOs that I know throw because I can smell them. I'd like to send you a couple to help. Don't give up, I'm still testing after a very long time.

[Holly]

Beth, Holly, hmmm. Don't know how to respond. We use Status jars as one of our two line jars, and it's great. This is from repeat customers of the jar and our own test burning. We order by the pallet, btw.

Not saying you cannot get a good candle in this jar. I just find that it is much harder to get a great throwing candle for larger areas. This is my nose. It depends on the combinations of wax and fragrance oils and of course wicking. I also find it takes a lot more work finding oils that will have a kicker throw in them for larger areas. I have bought several candles in status jars and the ones I have gotten do not pass for my nose is large areas. They are best in smaller areas. I am comparing the throw to well scented double wicked candles or smaller jars that seem to produce a better hot throw.

I am sure that if Lauren settled on a wax and started to diligently hunt for strong throwing oils for her wax in that jar, she would eventually produce a decent throwing candle. It depends on the candle maker....what they want to deal with and everyone's nose is different.

I sold this jar in a limited addition. I only finalized one scent out of several that I tried, and it was a very strong scent, so it did fine in that jar.

P.S. I also find that it takes longer for the scent throw to get going just like in any single wicked candle, but since it is wider than some and has an open top with no neck, I find that it takes even a little longer in these types of jars. I also find that at the beginning of the jar, the throw takes longer than when it gets further down. These are just my findings. I had a spa line in the Madison jars which are very similar but just a tad narrower. I found that they did best in smaller areas and since it was a spa line with fragrances that were best for those types of areas it worked out well. I just had to hunt around longer for great scent throwing fragrances. I found some which did pretty well in the larger areas....just takes a little longer during the burn to get strong.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Holly
P.S.