Feedback from the pro's

[OCcandles]

Hello everyone!

Long story short, I have been making candles for about 6 years and decided to leave my full-time position as director of IT to try to take our (the wifey and I) hobby into a business. My wife is the aromatherapist in the family and I’m the cook. When we meet up she did everything under the sun from bath salts to lip balm. The only thing she didn't do was candles. I read up on it and ordered a test kit all those years ago and fell for it.

I'm not sure if I’m going to get flamed for this post, but I chose to standardize in palm wax for many reason, but mainly it's hands down the most amazing and difficult wax I've worked with (and I’ve tried them all). I didn't use sites like this because I wanted to learn on my own, but now with a completed product I thought i would venture out a little bit to the candle community for some honest feedback (from the people who know).

I'm a firm believer of giving back, and after this year of standardization I thought I would help those who are trying to make the same journey I have. For example to get a custom box for my candles I had to order 1500 of them to get them under $1 per box. This didn't include the plastic top which I had to make by hand with holes, cork dots, bend and ect... 1500 times 8000 cork punch holes... lol Cost me around $4k just for the boxes. (wow!)

I looked around for palm wax competitors and have been amazed to find how bad they are from an appearance point of view. Anyways, I saw a nitch in it and it's been one hell of a ride. Got a box custom made for my votive sets, tested endlessly and finally got online to try to start to sell. I'm done with 2 (yes that is all I have so far....) I have my site setup to sell, Amazon, Etsy and Ebay is next. I have had 0 (yes ZERO) sales outside of friends and family from these venues. I thought I had low expectations, but obviously not enough. My next approach is the "Brick" side and deliver a package to local stores here in Orange County. I spent a lot of time making a brochure and researching my cost and wholesale cost to vendors. I should have this done next week and give that a shot. I have higher hopes for sales in this area.

Ok, enough is enough. My site is www.orangecoastcandles.com. I'm not posting to try to get sales, more for connection amongst peers. My wife won't talk to me about candles or the business side of it anymore and my family still can't believe I left my 100k job to try this... sigh

Something I would love to discuss is the wholesale market and how to get your products into stores. I'm and IT guy not a sales guy. I love making candles but the sales/admin side of everything is a killer. I've done some research and I see a bunch of sites that allow a manufacture (like us) to post your products at higher volume for retailers to see for $300-$700 fee + commission of ??.

Well, Hello everyone this is my first post, so be gentle. But I want brutal honest opinions.

~Russell

May the light of life burn within you!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Vicky_CO
promotional code removed

[David Fields]

Not sure where to start. I guess I'll give you what has worked for us. We've been in the business for 15 years and do very well. We have had a store for seven years. We have I guess about a hundred wholesale accounts. We never advertise for wholesale. We actually don't really want wholesale (lots of reasons), but have wound up by accident with lots of them. They comprise about 20% of our yearly revenue. We get wholesale accounts from retail customers who own stores or know someone who has retail outlets. They like our products and refer their friends/family to us. We don't turn down money, so we almost always take the order. So, I suppose my advice would be to make sure of your product. There are lots of competitors out there who make great products. You have to find your niche. Why would a retailer buy from you rather than keep the line he already has? Samples, pricing and packaging that shout along with word of mouth advertising will eventually get you accounts. It sounds like you are rushing things. Years ago we helped a customer get started making candles (as a hobby); A month later he was going from store to store trying to get accounts (he got two). He brought some of his candles to us for testing, and they were crap. We pointed out the problems to him, but he was more interested in selling his candles than in perfecting his craft. Needless to say, after many $ and hours, he folded. We go to the Dallas Market twice a year and like to see what is new. We always see new chandlers who have spent a fortune on packaging and marketing, but not very long actually making candles. Very few make it. For us, it was something we grew into. HTH

[lsbennis]

Hi Russell, you just gotta go with what your heart tells you and don't stop till you get where you want to be. Never stop testing and always strive to make a better product. However, having said that I don't know how smart it was to quit a $100k a year job to do this before its making any kind of significant profit...lol Good luck to you though

[sisters3]

Hi there Russell!! Let me begin by saying LOVE your site and LOVE your packaging. I have found packaging/presentation to be one of the hardest things to perfect. We, like you, picked one wax, soy (GB464 to be exact) and stuck with it. Lots of testing, as you know, and have what we feel are 5 very nice container candles.

Our retail break, if you will, came when a store owner stopped by our booth at a show. We are still developing her line so I guess I'm not a ton of help there, but maybe start by dropping off small samples and doing some face to face cold calls in your area. Small hometown businesses LOVE to buy from other local businesses and you sure sound like you have the desire and personality for it, so I for one say WAY TO GO!! I wish you tons of luck!! I really believe you will get out of it what you put in, so in that respect you'll do great!!!

[OCcandles]

Thanks everyone for the kind words and experiences/suggestions! I really haven’t tapped into the market of which I’m looking to enter. The “beach” OC type stores maybe even tattoo and smoke shops. :shocked2:Well, I’m getting my order from the printers tomorrow finalized so I should have my brochures in-hand soon to put the theory to the test.

Not to look so bad, I have had a part-time IT consulting job in this year’s process of getting candles going. I do believe in the product and enough (or maybe too much) time/$ went into the development of the votive sets. An organic approach to growth sounds like the best way to move forward and that's my plan. :tiptoe:

I’m not a sales guy, that’s for sure (I’m just the IT guys!), but I’m excited/scared for the next step and that generally means you are moving in the right direction. :embarasse

~Russell

www.orangecoastcandles.com

Edited January 25, 2012 by OCcandles

[001]

I think first you need to expand the product line. Currently there are 2 scents listed how many do you actually have?

Second, you need to figure out which market you are looking to get into and network. Your prices on the site seem to put you in the ultra premium realm.

Scope your competition. If you are going after the ultra premium market check out companies with a similar business plan. NEST, Archipelago, Aura, Lafco, Simpatico, Trapp, Voluspa, Odin. Check out what retailers they are sold out of and how to get into them. Most major companies like this drop hundreds of thousands getting into high end retailers. They get these accounts through trade shows and networking, but they need a simple, but complete line to buy into. Most of these companies have 10-15 custom fragrances and many of them have the same 'look' simple, smooth, lightly colored wax with a simple, smooth container.

If this isn't the market you're looking for, maybe you should re-evaluate the price point, and line of fragrances. If you are looking to get into the premium candle area, you'll be up against Yankee, Colonial, WoodWick, Mccalls, almost all MLMs and most small handmade companies. Wholesale accounts are less important here but they can be profitable. These companies can grow at local shows, in local shops. I would go with consignment, get an agreement typed up and through your lawyer. This is a great way to get your product out there. The shop owners are more likely to put the product on the shelf if they didn't have to put money out to do so. That isn't the end of the work though, you need to market those locations and get people in there buying them.

The last market is the discount market, and is something I don't recommend getting into... long, long hours and little pay.

This is just a personal observation. When I read on someone's site about the process or type of wax someone uses in great detail it makes it read a bit like they are convincing themselves over their customers. The customers who care will know by the name or look of the product, and the rest just want something that works.

Edited January 25, 2012 by 001

[Judy, USMC]

If you want to get into local stores the only way I know of is to pound the pavement. That involves gas mileage and samples beside the brochures. And that still limits you to the immediate area. If you are more interested in developing a product line to go into your brick&mortar and also offer as wholesale then you may want to pre-plan now to go big.

Unfortunately, I didn't do my research in time to let you know about the LA Mart. http://www.lamartgift.com/ It's already closed. But there are permanent showrooms that representatives have rented. (I know most of the reps will only deal with manufacturers who have a D&B Rating.) Also, during the shows, there are temporary exhibitors who man their own booths and are part of Beckman's which showcases hand-crafted items.

You can sort out the "Candles" exhibitors. http://mmpicagift-365.ascendeventmedia.com/ExhGuide.aspx?p=37#1081&catid=129 and under "Gifts you will see Candles. Note that the number of candle companies is not the 81 that sorted out. The actual candle company is listed and may also be listed under their rep's business name.

I am registered at the Chicago Merchandise Mart and also Columbus; at both I am credentialed as a manufacturer. Consider getting credentialed and registered at the LA Mart and stop by for a visit to get a feel of the floorplan. Then plan taking a day or two to attend the market in March. Just observe how other candle companies display and market their goods. These types of displays and product presentation work at the big mart/markets and will easily transfer to a brick&mortar. An added plus ~ it will give you a great opportunity to pick up their wholesale order forms to check out not only the format they use ~ but also their wholesale pricing. (wink)

Hope that helps ...

Edited January 25, 2012 by Judy, USMC
added link

[felixncharlie]

Your candles look nice but I think I would get some better photos for your site. I don't think all the lace and silk flower etc makes me want to BUY one of the candles. Also I know many make candles out of their homes but if you are looking to turn up the sales, especially to businesses I would not state that. You can still say you are a small hand poured company but they don't need to know you make them in your kitchen etc. As a former retail buyer that would be a turn off to me. Good luck, I know palm for me was very hard to work with and I give you tons of credit for making them. I wish you success.

[OCcandles]

Again, thank you all for your experiance and suggestions. I really am taking them to heart.

To answer some questions, I have used many scents for testing but only have the 2 "vanilla" and "Pineapple Coconut Lime" in larger amounts. When i do a new set for the votives I'm also getting the color down for each so I'll move on to more products when I can. I'm trying to get pillars down with the same 2 scents first before purchasing a large amount of essence.

I don't have a D&B yet, i may have to look into this later as you said. If I can make it I would love to check out the LA shows, what a great learning oppertunity at worst...

~russell

www.orangecoastcandles.com

Edited January 25, 2012 by OCcandles

[annie123]

Ok, the question you should be asking is how many of us here make $100,000.00 a year in profit...anyone?

[jeanie353]

Ok, the question you should be asking is how many of us here make $100,000.00 a year in profit...anyone?

I don't know too many people who make that much anywhere.

[lsbennis]

I do I do....but then I wake up...lol :undecided

[Vicky_CO]

I do I do....but then I wake up...lol :undecided

I thought I was the only one that had that dream. LOL

[Wessex]

I'm sorry, but I work with Palm wax and am totally turned off with the verbiage of your site. Palm wax is a pretty easy wax to work with, much easier than soy. Just being honest, not trying to put anyone down. But an experienced Palm wax chandler is probably going to chuckle when they read some of the things you wrote. I can see trying to put your product in the best possible light (which we all strive towards), but there is some misinformation there. Not trying to start any fights.

Steve

[JAVAEBOY]

Russell,

I can't really answer what your next step should be. I also come from an IT background, and only do this as a hobby, and make a non-substantial amount of money from doing a few shows a year. I have never worked with palm wax, so I can't help there either.

What I can help out with a little is the grammatical wording on your website, although I really hated grammar classes in High school and College. (In the 30+ years I have been out of school, no-one has ever asked me to identify the adverb in a sentence.) On your page describing your "Brisk and Bake Pour Process", in the second paragraph, you wrote: "Have you ever try a candle that smells great..." That sentence should read "Have you ever tried a candle that smells great..."

Just me offering a little bit of help there.

Good luck in whatever your do, and remember that grammar checkers on computers are your friends.

SteveG

Edited January 27, 2012 by JAVAEBOY

[Twoscentsworth]

Am I the ONLY one here going ... REALLY??????

[Beth]

& the "Brisk & Bake" morphed into "Not only does the “brick and Back Pour Process” result in an amazing crystallization".

[David Fields]

Annie123, I hesitate to post this, for what should be obvious reasons. My wife and I make way over $100K in profit, after taxes, from our business. We should write a book about what we have learned. This post is just to answer your question. I would prefer not to get queries about how we did it, etc. Bottom line, we didn't, God did it, and we just followed where He led us.

[Beth]

Annie123, I hesitate to post this, for what should be obvious reasons. My wife and I make way over $100K in profit, after taxes, from our business. We should write a book about what we have learned. This post is just to answer your question. I would prefer not to get queries about how we did it, etc. Bottom line, we didn't, God did it, and we just followed where He led us.

Yes, please, write that book! I'll take one!

[OCcandles]

What I can help out with a little is the grammatical wording on your website, although I really hated grammar classes in High school and College. (In the 30+ years I have been out of school, no-one has ever asked me to identify the adverb in a sentence.) On your page describing your "Brisk and Bake Pour Process", in the second paragraph, you wrote: "Have you ever try a candle that smells great..." That sentence should read "Have you ever tried a candle that smells great..."

SteveG

Thanks Steve, no hard feeling your way and wessex brothers! That was a quick draft that I through up and was waiting for my brochure to be finished (2 days ago) to change that page. I updated it now and it's a little more correct, both political and grammar. :lipsrseal I have updated that page now and it's been on my to do list. Here (and I got iespelling plug-in finally installed so my threads won't be so bad either.... )

And no, I have no expectations of making 100k profit anytime soon, but those who do in the business.......................

~russell

www.orangecoastcandles.com

Edited January 27, 2012 by OCcandles

[jeanie353]

Am I the ONLY one here going ... REALLY??????

Nope...some of are just saying nuttin' :tiptoe:

[Stella1952]

I'm sorry, but I work with Palm wax and am totally turned off with the verbiage of your site. Palm wax is a pretty easy wax to work with, much easier than soy. Just being honest, not trying to put anyone down. But an experienced Palm wax chandler is probably going to chuckle when they read some of the things you wrote. I can see trying to put your product in the best possible light (which we all strive towards), but there is some misinformation there. Not trying to start any fights.

Steve

I am not a professional, so I didn't answer this thread since only professional opinions were sought; however, I am a talented amateur and, yes, I chuckled. Sometimes people *think* a wax is difficult because they have a preconceived opinion about how wax *should* behave. Every wax with which I have worked has different properties. I do not compare different waxes to one another when learning them. As I worked with palm wax, I learned about its unique properties. Once one learns what palm wax will and will not do, everything falls into place. The same holds true for working with soy waxes. Soy wax also has unique properties. Different formulas perform slightly differently but the basic set of properties is the same. Whether one is using pillar formula palm waxes or container formulas, the basic properties remain the same.

I agree that the "process" by which candles are manufactured is not pertinent customer information. It is wise to explain how palm wax candles burn because their properties are quite different from soy, paraffin or beeswax candles. Beyond that, it's just fluff & stuff, IMHO. Some websites offer a great deal of information; others offer none. Landing somewhere in the middle is probably a good thing. As a newcomer to candle making, you will find that after you have a year or two's experience under your belt, your initial observations may change. I think it is wise to write as little as possible until your experience has taught you more about your products. I feel no need to extol the benefits of one wax over another. I would rather allow the quality of my products to speak for themselves. JMHO

Best of luck to you in your endeavor. :smiley2:

[Candybee]

...I feel no need to extol the benefits of one wax over another. I would rather allow the quality of my products to speak for themselves. JMHO

Best of luck to you in your endeavor. :smiley2:

Aww! Very well put! Your products should definitely speak volumes for themselves. THAT is what sells because that is what keeps repeat customers coming back. They are my best customers and the ones that know and trust my product. They depend on quality so its my job to deliver.

[Ravens]

Welcome to the forum. I wish you much success; this is not an inexpensive endeavour, so I hope you felt ok leaving that high paying IT job. Work on more fragrances, add them to your website, then write an ebook .... just to give David F. some competition, lol

[annie123]

And that is great for you but the reality is that very few people will make that amount of money on candles. But when I read post on people getting into the candle business because they think that they are going to make lots of money I feel the need to inject a dose of reality.

Annie123, I hesitate to post this, for what should be obvious reasons. My wife and I make way over $100K in profit, after taxes, from our business. We should write a book about what we have learned. This post is just to answer your question. I would prefer not to get queries about how we did it, etc. Bottom line, we didn't, God did it, and we just followed where He led us.