what to use to secure your wick

[cary]

I know this has been discused on another thread, but I can't seem to find it. What is the red sillicon gasket sealer called that some of you use to secure your wicks?

Also, I want to wish everyone a Happy and Safe ThanksGiving. Bless you all!

[Stella1952]

Permatex Silicon Gasket Maker available (red) at auto parts stores everywhere.

[robertgibbens]

Stella what do you find beneficial about the Permatex? I have been using wick stickers. They seem to secure well, but can be a pain in the butt to use.

[Stella1952]

Robert, I have answered that many times. In a nutshell, in my experience and testing, Permatex has kept the wick tab sealed and adhered to the bottom of the container 100% of the time. No other method of adhesion has worked anywhere near that percentage of the time. The closest was hot glue and I have posted the picture of one of the failures of that several times. Simply looking at the temperature range of the adhesive (before it begins to soften - it doesn't have to totally let go or melt for a failure to occur) tells the story. HTH

PS I think Permatex is a bigger PITA to use than wick stickers, but they have the worst failure percentage of all the adhesive methods I have tested, sooo... Hot glue is a slightly bigger PITA only because of the strings it makes... You have to wick at least a few hours in advance (24 hours is best) with Permatex unlike all the other methods which can be used right before pouring.

[rjdaines]

I use the Permatex (not on testers) and is certainly keeps the wick stuck in it's proper location and also stop the wax from feeding the wick from under that tab.

[TallTayl]

Permatex fan here too. I've seen too many failures with other methods.

[Jillsthings]

I just ordered the Permatex. I haven't had too many problems with the wick stickers, but they stress me out to no end when the do come up, and they have a couple times. Nothing like pouring a candle and then having the wick come up...then having to quickly pour it back out, clean out the container and try again....grrr. So yeah, I'm switching to save myself that headache. :-)

[Seamist]

Hit your jars with the heat gun before apply the wick stickum. It helps with adhesion. Somethime the jars could have a film or even be wet due to humidity which could lead to the stickum not sticking.

98% of the time the stickems work perfectly, Plus they are easy to use and not a PITA, IMO. Especially when you have lots of jars to wick.

If you are only making a few candles, then using hot glue or permatex is fine. But making candles in large batches, the Permatex and hot glue is a ROYAL PITA!! LOl

[Stella1952]

Jill, you don't have to order it - it's at Autozone, PepBoys, NAPA and all other auto parts stores. I haven't checked to see if it's carried by WalMart in their auto section, but it would not surprise me. If they are out of the red, there is a blue product package (glue is grey) that works well too. Any of the ones rated at 650°F & above are suitable. The red stuff is kinda the "all purpose" Permatex High Temp gasket sealer, but they make several different specialty kinds which will also work. Some folks use plain ol' silicone rubber sealer, but if memory serves, it's only rated for about 400°F or so which is why I chose the high temp gasket sealer.

98% of the time the stickems work perfectly

I am soooo into easy, but when it comes to safety, 98% isn't good enough... and the failure rate on those at the end of the candle is much greater than 2%... The ones which let loose during pouring are not the big problem - it's the ones that soften and release when the candle is being burned near the end of the candle when the wax is liquid. That happens on the customer's watch and is the most critical time for overheating and fire. Many people do not perform enough testing of the end of the candle... IMHO, that's the most important part to test in the life of a candle because nearly all things bad that can happen to candles happen then. If one is twisting wicks, the initial failure rate is even worse. I'd rather see someone use high-temp hot glue than wick stickers because of the rate of failure at the end of the candle.

While stickers may be more convenient, remember: we don't just use these to hold the wick in place while we pour - they are used to keep that wick stationary at the end of the candle as a safety measure to prevent the wick from "wandering" and to keep the wick sealed underneath the tab so that it cannot draw liquid fuel from underneath and fail to self-extinguish when the wax level drops below the top of the tab. This is more about safety than centering during pouring.

I am surprised at how many chandlers think it's okay to burn candles past the 1/2" level because customers think it's a waste of wax to leave anything in the bottom of a container! I hope none of you will cave to this! The last of a container candle is the most critical time for safety because that's when temps inside the container soar. Educate your customers about this and encourage them to pour the liquid wax left at the end into a tart melter.

[Jillsthings]

Yeah, I know I can get it there, but the kids are home till Tuesday. I ordered on Amazon and will probably have it before then, lol. I hate taking all three kids to the store, lol.

[cary]

You'll pay more is shipping then gas to get it at walmart, it was less the 4 dollars there, why don't you have the DH get a tube for you or have him watch the kid's for you. I didn't think it was a PITA at all to work with. I actually thought it was better then hot glue and it gave me time to center the wick better then the hot glue does or the stickers. I love it!

Edited November 25, 2011 by cary

[Seamist]

Jill, you don't have to order it - it's at Autozone, PepBoys, NAPA and all other auto parts stores. I haven't checked to see if it's carried by WalMart in their auto section, but it would not surprise me. If they are out of the red, there is a blue product package (glue is grey) that works well too. Any of the ones rated at 650°F & above are suitable. The red stuff is kinda the "all purpose" Permatex High Temp gasket sealer, but they make several different specialty kinds which will also work. Some folks use plain ol' silicone rubber sealer, but if memory serves, it's only rated for about 400°F or so which is why I chose the high temp gasket sealer.

I am soooo into easy, but when it comes to safety, 98% isn't good enough... and the failure rate on those at the end of the candle is much greater than 2%... The ones which let loose during pouring are not the big problem - it's the ones that soften and release when the candle is being burned near the end of the candle when the wax is liquid. That happens on the customer's watch and is the most critical time for overheating and fire. Many people do not perform enough testing of the end of the candle... IMHO, that's the most important part to test in the life of a candle because nearly all things bad that can happen to candles happen then. If one is twisting wicks, the initial failure rate is even worse. I'd rather see someone use high-temp hot glue than wick stickers because of the rate of failure at the end of the candle.

While stickers may be more convenient, remember: we don't just use these to hold the wick in place while we pour - they are used to keep that wick stationary at the end of the candle as a safety measure to prevent the wick from "wandering" and to keep the wick sealed underneath the tab so that it cannot draw liquid fuel from underneath and fail to self-extinguish when the wax level drops below the top of the tab. This is more about safety than centering during pouring.

I am surprised at how many chandlers think it's okay to burn candles past the 1/2" level because customers think it's a waste of wax to leave anything in the bottom of a container! I hope none of you will cave to this! The last of a container candle is the most critical time for safety because that's when temps inside the container soar. Educate your customers about this and encourage them to pour the liquid wax left at the end into a tart melter.

NOTHING, not even silicone is 100% safe. Stickums are just as safe as using the silicone. It's a matter of preference.

I have fully tested both. My tests show the stickums are as safe as the silicone.

I was also refferring to 98% of the time sticking to the jar before pouring. That is why I said to hit the jar with a heat gun.

I have yet to have a candle wick float when burning while using a stickum? I have been making candles for over 10 years. How many have you had float Stella? Really curious how intensively you tested the stickums?

Edited November 25, 2011 by Seamist
typo

[Stella1952]

There are some "tricks" that make wick placement easier. When one is wicking dozens of containers to pour, it's essential to develop a "system" for hitting the center accurately and quickly every time.

Because I make many of the same exact size container, I centered (measure sides to the middle) & glued one of the bullseye target sheets (jpg attached below - right click to download to your computer) onto the bottom corner of a sturdy box. I just slap the container into the corner and it's automatically centered and ready to wick with no futzing around.

For containers which are not the same as the ones I most commonly pour, I printed out a couple of these and laminated them. I can easily center the container directly on the guide and wick away.

I use the pen barrel method of placing the wick. (CLICK HERE for visual instructions from the archives) This ingenious rig applies pressure evenly in a circle around the center of the wick tab.

Remove the "guts" from a cheap ball point ink pen. You now have a rigid tube. If necessary, cut the tube to suit the depth of the container you are wicking (shorter for votives, longer for deeper containers). Insert the wick assembly, press the excess wick at the top over the edge of the barrel and hold it in place with your fingertip, dot the bottom with Permatex, then look straight down into the container to center with the "target" underneath and press the wick tab into place. Remove the barrel carefully and you're on to the next one.

I wait until the adhesive is hardened (at LEAST 2 hours, preferably overnight) then attach the upper wick bars & twist the wick a few turns right before pouring. HTH

[Seamist]

I use the EZ Wick Setter from Candlescience To center my wicks perfectly and attach the stickum.

Per CS website:

The EZ wick setter is the fastest and easiest way to wick your containers. Improve the appearance and safety of your candles by ensuring the wick is perfectly centered every time. A single candle maker using the EZ wick setter along with our Wick Stickums can easily wick dozens of containers an hour.

There is not right or wrong here. It is all a matter of preference. Just thought I would give you a simpler option.

Which is also safe I might add. I would never compromise safety as others have pointed out.

[Beth]

Stella, I've been using that drawing to center my wicks. Thank you for posting it a while back; it's awesome!

I didn't have any of those kind of pens when I first started.. so I rummaged through my kitchen drawers and found the sleeve for my little meat thermometer works perfectly. Just a thought; someone else may have one they could use.

[Stella1952]

NOTHING, not even silicone is 100% safe. Stickums are just as safe as using the silicone. It's a matter of preference.

I have fully tested both. My tests show the stickums are as safe as the silicone.

I was also refferring to 98% of the time sticking to the jar before pouring. That is why I said to hit the jar with a heat gun.

I have yet to have a candle wick float when burning while using a stickum? I have been making candles for over 10 years. How many have you had float Stella? Really curious how intensively you tested the stickums?

As I mentioned in my post above, I have had many failures with different brands of wick stickers over the 6 years I have been making candles, both when preparing the container for pouring (note that I twist my wicks slightly and the adhesive has to be strong enough to remain secure during that) and more importantly, during the burn at the end of the container (see above remarks). "Floating wicks" is not the primary concern for me (although it supercedes anything past that 'cause ya have to start over when that occurs).

CANDLE SAFETY is my biggest concern - not simply convenience during pouring. The photo attached below shows the results of an adhesive failure (in that case, high-temp hot glue) during a palm wax powerburn test. I took the photo to illustrate this issue to people who have not seen this or who do not test their candles sufficiently. It happens with both palm wax and soy wax candles (probably praffin too, but since I don't pour paraffin, I don't test it either).

If the candle is not manually extinguished at 1/2" (as many customers fail to do), we rely on the wick tab to self extinguish. Softening of the adhesive seal allows the wick to continue sucking liquid wax from under the wick tab or, if there is complete adhesive failure, allow the wick tab to "wander" due to the convection currents in the liquid wax. This sets up an extremely dangerous situation which can result in fire or the container shattering. If people burned candles according to safety instructions, this would seldom occur, but unfortunately they do not, which is why I perform torture testing: to engineer my candles FIRST FOR SAFETY.

Stickums are just as safe as using the silicone

I'm sorry, but my experiences and testing disagree. I have not had a single failure with the application of high temp silicone gasket sealer as previously described. Not one.

I pour palm wax containers at 200°F, above the 160°F softening point of many adhesives. The RTV gasket material does NOT soften when heated, the cause of most end-of-container failures. To me this isn't a matter of "preference," the material is simply superior at standing up to high temps at the end of the candle, which I also wrote above.

You can use any method you wish. I choose to err on the side of safety.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Stella1952

[lmc]

I've had floating wicks at the end of test burns using a high temp glue gun and now only use it for testers but for those I give to my family or friends I use the Permatex...

[burnt_fingers]

I have used several makes of glue dots and from time to time I will have a failure. I generally clean all my containers with hot soapy water followed by a hot water rinse, a white vinegar rinse and finally a hot water rinse. I let air dry and when the time comes warm the container with a heat gun just before adhering the tab to the bottom. This has significantly reduced my failure rate to a few containers a year.

How long does it take permatex to dry before you can pour your wax?

[Stella1952]

As previously mentioned, at least 2 hours to harden - 24 hours for complete cure and ultimate strength. It's on the package instructions. Here is the manufacturer's link to this product:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_High-Temp_Red_RTV_Silicone_Gasket.htm

Because it is manufactured for use in automobile engines, this type of silicone rubber is impervious to most solvents (acetone is the exception), oil and oil-based chemicals. It is rated for use on a variety of hard surfaces. The surface must be clean and relatively smooth.

These are glue dots. Glue dots are completely inadequate. I could not find any that are suggested for use in candlemaking on their website. The softening temperature for these is well below the temps reached near the end of candle containers. While your cleaning regime is admirable, it will not compensate for the inadequacy of the actual adhesive material for this application. We're not sticking posters on a wall here - we are trying to adhere metal to glass in a high temperature environment with liquid wax containing chemicals with solvent properties (FOs).

Glue dots are not the same as "wick stickers" which are foam backed mounting material with a permanent double sided adhesive, either in sheets of dots, squares or rolls of tape. Again, the temperatures at the end of a container candle exceed the range for this adhesive. I have tested ones from several candle suppliers and 3M (tape & squares). None were adequate for high temperature use submerged in hot candle wax and FO. The highest temperature rating I could find on any was 160°F, well below the operating temperature at the bottom of a container candle. I could not locate any information for the foam or adhesive's ability to resist solvents.

A few failures per year (per hundred, per thousand?) is a few too many for a product which contains an open flame, IMHO, especially when there are other adhesives available which are more suitable for this application. But, hey - many chandlers use NOTHING to adhere their wick tabs so at least you are doing more then they are for safety.

[simply fragrant]

How do you remove the wick/permatex after the candle is burned so the glass can be re-cycled?

[Stella1952]

With a single edged razor blade or any other tool that can gently pry the wick tab up. I don't recycle glass for candle making as it is not a safe practice (internal stress of glass from thermal shock & exposure to high heat). For regular recycling of glass, this is accomplished in the crusher when the glass is ground into cullet, then metals are separated. I am more concerned with the safety of the candle than removing the tab from the container. If recycling is a big concern, make pillar candles instead. They are far more environmentally friendly.

[ChandlerWicks]

Hi There SF, In order to re-cycle my jars for testing: I melt the wax off in a low-temp oven, wipe out with paper towels (lots & lots of paper towels) then soak in dawn/ammonia, the sticky stuff usually can be scraped off to begin the testing cycle again. Now if I could get the sticky stuff off the floor!

How do you remove the wick/permatex after the candle is burned so the glass can be re-cycled?

Edited November 26, 2011 by ChandlerWicks

[simply fragrant]

Hi CW, that's how I do it too, for my testers, and I never use those containers in the final product. I currently use the hi temp glue gun. Do you use the permatex? Also, if I go that route, I want to be able to tell my customers how to easily remove the wick tab so that they can recycle their glass at the recycle center. From reading, it sounds as if that adhesive is next to permanent and could be difficult to remove, does it get soft enough to easily remove? In my area containers are preferred. And the recyclers are very particular about the condition they accept glass, i.e., no labels, clean glass, no debris. Good to hear from ya!

[lmc]

Permatex should be considered permanent...hth

[ChandlerWicks]

I'm sorry I totally misunderstood your question. Thought you meant recycling in our testing. Wow, you are amazing to take the time to get the glass prepared for recycling!!!! I'm ashamed of myself!

Hi CW, that's how I do it too, for my testers, and I never use those containers in the final product. I currently use the hi temp glue gun. Do you use the permatex? Also, if I go that route, I want to be able to tell my customers how to easily remove the wick tab so that they can recycle their glass at the recycle center. From reading, it sounds as if that adhesive is next to permanent and could be difficult to remove, does it get soft enough to easily remove? In my area containers are preferred. And the recyclers are very particular about the condition they accept glass, i.e., no labels, clean glass, no debris. Good to hear from ya!