Monkey Pod or other round candle labels

[robertgibbens]

I am wondering if anyone knows where I can purchase round labels with holes in the center for the wicks. I am looking for the kind that sit directly on the wax. Something I can use for my coconut and monkey pod candles.

[EricofAZ]

Maybe add a label to the lids? http://allwhitecandles.easystorecreator.com/items/candle-packaging-and-candle-shrink-wrap/480-plastic-lids-for-jar-candles-62107jp-detail.htm

or the endcaps (which have 3 holes and you'd have to make a center one for the wick)

http://allwhitecandles.easystorecreator.com/items/candle-packaging-and-candle-shrink-wrap/1000-plastic-pillar-candle-end-caps-for-shrink-wrap-3ew-detail.htm

As for the round labels, labelsonline should have a good size selection, but you'd have to use a hold punch.

[Stella1952]

Ummmm, what's a "monnkey pod?"?

[EnvyCandles]

Ummmm, what's a "monnkey pod?"?

yes, what is that...?

[robertgibbens]

Monkey Pod is a type of wooden bowl. Very popular in Hawaii. Plastic lid would ruin the look so that's out. Just have to buy round card stock and punch my own holes.

[ksranch]

Monkey Pod is a type of wooden bowl. Very popular in Hawaii. Plastic lid would ruin the look so that's out. Just have to buy round card stock and punch my own holes.

Do you have a picture??? My curiousity is killing me!!!

[Stella1952]

Not goin' there. Coconut shells and monkey pods are both flammable materials. While I might make these products for my own use, I would not be willing to assume liability for making candles in a flammable container. JMHO

[rjdaines]

Saw some candles at a craft show where the container was a dried, hollowed-out gourd. Not sure how hard it would me to ignite the gourd shell but it does come under the category of flammable.

[Candybee]

I used to have a beautiful monkey pod tray given to me by my grandmother in Hawaii. They are indeed flammable being made of wood.

Have to agree with Stella on this. Coconut and wood bowls may be popular with some for making candles in but you are taking on the risk of making a candle in a flammable container. All it takes is one accident to happen and you are liable for it as the candlemaker knowingly making a candle out of something that can catch fire.

[robertgibbens]

Interesting thought on the flammable bowls. Thousands are sold everyday here in the islands. The tourists seem to love them. Of course, the flash point of wood is 572 degrees F. For a candle to get that hot it would have had to reach its flash point. Not sure a judge would deem a candle maker responsible for such a reckless candle burner since the flames shooting out the top of the candle likely lit the house on fire before the bowl actually began to burn. But I appreciate the thoughts as they had not occurred to me.

[kcollins78]

Interesting thought on the flammable bowls. Thousands are sold everyday here in the islands. The tourists seem to love them. Of course, the flash point of wood is 572 degrees F. For a candle to get that hot it would have had to reach its flash point. Not sure a judge would deem a candle maker responsible for such a reckless candle burner since the flames shooting out the top of the candle likely lit the house on fire before the bowl actually began to burn. But I appreciate the thoughts as they had not occurred to me.

I googled them and found these, you could make a little tag like this: http://www.amazon.com/Hawaiian-Monkey-Pod-Coconut-Candle/dp/B0006OCC0G

[robertgibbens]

Thanks for the link.

[Stella1952]

Interesting thought on the flammable bowls. Thousands are sold everyday here in the islands. The tourists seem to love them. Of course, the flash point of wood is 572 degrees F. For a candle to get that hot it would have had to reach its flash point. Not sure a judge would deem a candle maker responsible for such a reckless candle burner since the flames shooting out the top of the candle likely lit the house on fire before the bowl actually began to burn. But I appreciate the thoughts as they had not occurred to me.

You seriously need to check your figures and definitions and peruse the recalls from the CPSC website (below). Using terms like "flashpoint" sounds real official, but in fact, there is no ONE flashpoint for wood, since the many species differ, both in composition and in the amount of moisture & volatile liquids inside. The ignition point of fuel-soaked (wax) woody materials may be very different from something that is torched off in a glass beaker in a lab, especially if the fuel is on fire.

The list below only represents a few of the dangerous products commonly sold. Just because one sees candles being sold does not mean they are safe. Be sure you have a LOT of product liability insurance if you choose to take the risk. Judges DON'T look favorably on flammable materials used to contain fuel & flame.

Here's a long list the CPSC has recalled and so many more SHOULD be on it...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cgi-bin/prod.aspx

[robertgibbens]

Wood soaked with wax huh? If wax soaked into wood it would only be a matter of time before the wax leaked out the side. To say that wood doesnt have a flash point is just plain silly.

What I find curious about the commission report you sent is that after looking over the first few dozen, I cannot find one wooden candle that was recalled.

[ChrisR]

I actually found some of these types of candles at my grocery store this week, made with citronella and I don't see how they could catch on fire. With one or even two wicks, if wicked properly the coconut shell or monkey pod wouldn't get any hotter than the glass containers we use. The flame from the wicking wouldn't come anywhere near the shell to ignite anything. So Robert if you've done your due dilligence and tested properly, I hope you sell tons!!

[Stella1952]

To say that wood doesnt have a flash point is just plain silly.

That's not what I said. I wrote:

"there is no ONE flashpoint for wood, since the many species differ, both in composition and in the amount of moisture & volatile liquids inside"

Table 2.1.1 from the link below, lists a range of 374°F - 500°F for the ignition temps of various woods:

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html

According to the NCA, the hottest part of a candle flame typically reaches 2552°F. That's well above any flashpoint or ignition point of any species of wood.

Wood soaked with wax huh? If wax soaked into wood it would only be a matter of time before the wax leaked out the side.

The wax IS liquid and hot when poured. A certain amount of it will soak into any unsealed absorbent surface before it hardens... wood, unglazed pottery or terra cotta, bamboo, etc. At FMP, the entire surface of the candle is liquid, and the MP depth is often greater than 1/2". It also becomes totally liquid toward the bottom third of a container.

I cannot find one wooden candle that was recalled.

Here's one for you:

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05207.html

And another...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08083.html

Did you see the recall of the sea urchin shell candles? That's calcium carbonate which supposedly is not flammable!

So much for Pottery Barn's gourd candles...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07038.html

The flame from the wicking wouldn't come anywhere near the shell to ignite anything.

If everything about the manufacture and the burning of the candle was ideal, especially the way the wick was absolutely adhered to the coconut shell, I can surely see your point. But customers DO burn candles in drafts; people DO fail to trim wicks; some even leave wick trimmings and matches in candles. Perhaps, based on your comments, we could start using particle board, masonite, driftwood or maybe even cardboard for containers? The flame wouldn't have to come anywhere near the edges of the container if we wicked it right...:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2 Gimme a break...

We've seen tins catching fire reported here; we've read about candles catching fire here; we've seen glass containers shattering reported here; plastic tealights have been recalled time and time again because of the plastic melting or catching fire reported by members here... We (and the NCA) recommend on warning labels not to burn a candle on any surface that is flammable... why in the world would we pour wax into a flammable container and light it, then?

I'll stand by what I said originally: I think it's a bad idea to pour candles into a flammable container.

People are free to draw their own conclusions, make their own decisions, take their own risks. Lots of people get away with selling candles that cause fires because they DON'T get sued. You could be one of the lucky ones. It's simply not a risk I would take, nor could I, in good conscience, advise anyone else to take that risk. I also remember that risk is not solely all about the candle maker - there are these things called customers who deserve due diligence and protection, too. :lipsrseal

[Candybee]

I once had a woodmaker make me a beautiful set of wooden taper holders. I had let a candle burn down towards the bottom of the candle where it was set inside the wood. It caught fire. Before that happened I was also of the opinion that the candle would not get hot enough to ignite the holder. I now have no illusions that a candle put in a flammable object has the potential to catch fire or become a fire hazard.

I know the coconut shell candles are popular and they sell here in Virginia as well. I'm sure many people love them and burn them successfully without incident. That does not take away the fact that the shell is still flammable. From my own experience with the wood candle holder I know better than to burn any candle in or on a flammable object. Its an accident waiting to happen. All you need is for it to happen one time with one person.

It surprises me that anyone would think a judge or jury would not hold the candlemaker responsible for such an accident. Really? You make a candle that uses fire and sell that candle poured into a flammable object.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Candybee

[Twoscentsworth]

) I said the same thing about the plastic tealites and there were plenty of pooh poohers ... until there were recalls because the darn things caught fire and melted. It just pays to be as safe as possible.

Just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean it's safe.

[ksranch]

) I said the same thing about the plastic tealites and there were plenty of pooh poohers ... until there were recalls because the darn things caught fire and melted. It just pays to be as safe as possible.

Just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean it's safe.

Amen.

[classiccandle]

http://www.boxcoop.com/candle.htm?gclid=CPry9IuHg6UCFUXu7Qod5GjtNw

Click on Lid/Cover in the left menu.

[robertgibbens]

Found that lid/cover last week. Thanks.

[robertgibbens]

I think it's good to be paranoid, but it's just too easy to be over paranoid. If a candle maker is negligent for making a candle in a coconut bowl when the user doesn't burn it properly because that bowl was made of a material that could catch fire, then why are all candle makers not negligent for making every candle since their all made with a wax that can flash (and catch fire)? Wax is as flammable a product as wood.

And for the record, I have burned dozens of coconut candles till the wick burned out with no fire. Unless your not using any kind of wick tab, the flame will never reach the bottom of the bowl. And it is 100 percent impossible for hot wax to ignite a coconut bowl. Again, even 300 degree wax will not ignite a coconut bowl. Of course the flames shooting from the top of a 300 degree wax will.

[Stella1952]

I have burned dozens of coconut candles till the wick burned out with no fire

I'm sure the makers of the birch candles have done the same thing. With liability, you cannot look at the thousands of cases where things go right, you have to look at the ONE that can cost you a bundle! Thousands of people burned those alcohol-gel lights, too, but the lawsuits where people were injured (through fault of their own) have caused the manufacturer to declare bankruptcy. You are NOT absolved from liability even if a customer does not follow your directions or apply common sense.

why are all candle makers not negligent for making every candle since their all made with a wax that can flash (and catch fire)?

Actually, unless one can verify that the candle was burned in a foolish manner that defies common sense and the written warnings on the candle, the weight of the responisibility lies on the shoulders of the manufacturer for safety and the performance of their product. That's why, if you read through the CPSC recall list I provided above, you will see that companies VOLUNTARILY recall their products even after only one complaint. Wise companies know that the cost of defending oneself in a lawsuit (even if you win) does not outweigh the bad press, time and aggravation. It's also why one carries plenty of product liability insurance - a MUST for ALL candlemakers. You can argue back and forth 'til the cows come home, but this is truly a moot point regarding liability and cost to a business. Best defense is no be there.