njcandle Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ive been testing with GB 464 and thought I finally got the hang of it.. After 8 different groups of test pours, each one had a different issue.. From large air pockets, to frosting, and finally the latest poor glass adhesion.. Ive finally decided to switch waxes and just try out the more expensive Ecosoya CB Advanced.. If anyone has done similar to this feel free to let me know your opinion.. CS claims for this wax to "resist frosting, have a smooth top surface and an even smooth burn pool with consistent color retention". Seems to be the solution to all of my problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I've been using the CB Advanced Soy wax for a few months now, it is a one pour wax with a great texture and does produce great tops. I've seen a little frosting but that may just me my newbie technique. My main issue has been finding the proper wicks but if you already are familiar with soy you may already know the proper wicks for it. I give it 3.5 thumbs up out of a possible 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-GRAN-ONES Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 i think with soy waxes..there are issues with all of them..that is only conqured by much testing..i tried all the ones you mentioned, and more..tried adding additives to them..trying for better HT..ect..i finally just decided to go with one wax, not add anything to it..and work my way thru the problems..i use gb 415..and it has been a learning experiance..but so much fun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ive been testing with GB 464 and thought I finally got the hang of it.. After 8 different groups of test pours, each one had a different issue.. From large air pockets, to frosting, and finally the latest poor glass adhesion.. Ive finally decided to switch waxes and just try out the more expensive Ecosoya CB Advanced.. If anyone has done similar to this feel free to let me know your opinion.. CS claims for this wax to "resist frosting, have a smooth top surface and an even smooth burn pool with consistent color retention". Seems to be the solution to all of my problems. Maybe the more expensive wax will actually save you lots of money from not having to throw out messed up candles. I've read reviews that say Ecosoya CB Excell is even better than Advanced. If I was going to do soy, I'd try one of those two for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkthailand Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 We've used 464 for 3 years and in the beginning we had some of the same issues - still have some issues with certain fo's but we've worked through most of them.Give us some details on your procedure. How hot are you getting the wax?When are you adding FO?When are you adding color? What temp are you pouring?Are you preheating your glass?What wicks are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) After 8 different groups of test pours, each one had a different issue.. From large air pockets, to frosting, and finally the latest poor glass adhesion.. Ive finally decided to switch waxes and just try out the more expensive Ecosoya CB AdvancedThis is a typical experience, except you could substitute nearly any soy wax for the one you are testing. Soy wax takes technique and experience to produce consistently good results. Sure EcoSoya CBA "sounds" better - but it has issues, too. Trust me when I say that 8 groups of test pours is NOT a lot of testing! "Poor glass adhesion" I take to mean the candles had wet spots. Seasoned chandlers will tell you that wet spots are the least of their concern because the issue seldom lies with the wax itself. It has more to do with environmental conditions (rapid temperature changes from warm to cool and back again) than the wax itself. Frosting is something that every soy wax candlemaker experiences for a variety of reasons. Large air pockets are also common newbie issues having to do with uneven cooling of the candles.My best advice is to stick to the wax you are testing and work through each issue one at a time. You won't learn much by jumping from wax to wax... If you are stumped, give us some information - temps, container diameter, wicks, FOs, etc. and see if other members can help you through these issues. Patience Grasshopper. HTH Edited March 27, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcandle Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ahhh.. It feels like a family here.. I appreciate all of the help.. Jar - 8 oz Libbey Status Jar - 3" diameterWick - Eco 14FO - All from CS except one from CW (I can name all of them if you want)Wax Heating Temp - 175 to 185Add FO and Dye - I have tried adding at 150 on the way up to 180 and also adding at 180 and dropping off the heatPour Temps - 150, 130, 110, 100, 90Jars were heated at the 150 and 130 pours and were not heated at the 100 and 90 poursI found that at the higher pour temps more air bubbles/pockets appeared and wet spots appeared at the lower temps... In the middle were just some realllllly ugly looking candles with various issues.. I am not frustrated.. Loving every minute of candle making so slow and steady will get me to a good candle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkthailand Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Great info NJ! What your doing is right and Stella is on the money - it takes time - and patience - but I wouldn't switch either. Also - for what it's worth - i've tried wicking that jar for going on 4 months now to NO avail - but it was supposed to be our new jar since we have done everything in the 8oz jelly jar but it will hit sooner or later. Just keep testing! It's the only way to know what works for you...What kind of thermometer are you using? As bizarre as this sounds you could be getting not accurate / consistent readings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribalvixen Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) I have similar problems with 464. If I pour hot like they recommend between 80 and 65 c then I get beautiful tops but lurking under is a great big void. If I pour cool i get no void but butt ugly tops. No matter what I do I get frosting if I use colour. Now I use no colour and pour cool and then do a 2nd pour.Its very frustrating sometimes. Edited March 28, 2011 by Tribalvixen typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraciS Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I love 464. I do not know what temp I pour at - I just pour when the pot is cool enough to pick up with both hands holding the pot not the handle. I used to use thermometer all the way through but the longer you work with your wax, the more you know what works and how that looks/feels.I heat the wax in my melter to 180, add the scent (7% tops, if it doesn't throw at that then I move on to another supplier if I have to have that scent) & stir (no color) and put the pot on a stool in front of a fan to help cool it quicker. I don't heat glass, don't cool under a box or leave big spaces between, just pour up as many as I need and turn off the light & call it a day. Sometimes I have 6 pour pots going and a couple get more cool than I like and I either just pour anyway or heat gun the outside of the pot until it is more liquid. I get a few little air pockets now & but I poke 3-4 holes in each jar and heat gun the top layer be sure they are filled and the top is smooth as glass. I get very little frosting, mainly on vanilla or intense floral scents. I used to obsess about it but now I don't bother. No one notices by me anyway.Any wax you choose will have frustrating problems. I just picked the one I had the least problems with and worked out the kinks for my own use. The grass is always greener if you are just reading supplier's write-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcandle Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 I realize that I should try to master the 464 and I have enough left to do that.. But I see no harm in trying another wax to compare it to.. I may even try to mix the two together and see what happens.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraciS Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The fun thing about knowing how to make candles is you can try any wax you want-lol. I wish I could count all the waxes and scents I've tried and failed with. You never know unless you try. Have fun!I realize that I should try to master the 464 and I have enough left to do that.. But I see no harm in trying another wax to compare it to.. I may even try to mix the two together and see what happens.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxSioux Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 If you're going to try to master soy, then I'd suggest you dig in your heels & settle in for the long haul. There's certainly nothing wrong w/ trying them all, but you're going to make yourself crazy if you don't have a solid understanding of what you're dealing w/ before you move on. I've seen dramatically different opinions of every soy wax & have noticed reviews seem to hinge greatly on location & season. I really believe your geographical location plays a big part on how well soy will perform. I'm in Tx & can definitely say that humidity & cooler temps change results. I've also noticed that I see the same +'s or -'s with people who are closest to my same weather patterns. Don't be too quick to judge, & make sure you've really learned everything you can, before you spend time & money on the next venture. Just when you *think* you have soy mastered, the weather changes & you're pulling your hair out ... again! Susan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monvi33 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Aint that the truth. My melting and pouring procedures change a little with each season. I use 464 and LOVE it. I tried a few different waxes when I first started and this is the one I loved and worked the best in my environment. I pour very very cool, and cool very very slow. Keep at it...take excellent notes...and try not to pull all of your hair out!! good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcandle Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 I have poured when wax was solidifying on the sides of my pour pot.. this didn't work so well as I lost wax weight.. I am going to try again with 464 but will also try the ecosoya just to have that comparison.. I will def update everyone on my trials.. should be arriving tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraciS Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 This happens to me a lot-lol. I usually do 6 pour pots back to back and they are all cooling at the same time. If I don't leave time enough between each pot then some start to harden on the sides before I get to them. I just take my heat gun and go around the outside of the pot and stir them up and pour.I'll be anxious to hear how the ecosoya does. I would love to find a wax that ships in the summer without melting down. There are some options with higher meltpoints I would love to play with.I have poured when wax was solidifying on the sides of my pour pot.. this didn't work so well as I lost wax weight.. I am going to try again with 464 but will also try the ecosoya just to have that comparison.. I will def update everyone on my trials.. should be arriving tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcandle Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Decided to give the 464 a try again and pour directly out of the presto pot (my thoughts here were the less handling and cooling due to handling the better) and then place candles in a covered box for 12 hours.. Wouldnt you know, after a little conditioning.. They are looking pretty good with minimal frosting.. FO was at 7% and doubled the dye content in this from earlier pours.. So it may not be a lost cause after all.. I did receive the Ecosoya CB Advanced today and I am going to give that a whirl on a few of my new scents tonight.. Will let you know my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcandle Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Ok.. So I did my first pour with the Ecosoya CB Advanced and my preliminary results are that I LOVE it.. Call it beginners luck but for this FO and dye it truly is a one pour wax.. I must say these are my best candles produced to date.. I am not dead set on switching obviously as I have yet to burn it but as far as a poured product, I am quite impressed.. I will continue to test the Advanced with other dyes and FO's to see how the poured product turns out.. Just an FYI, I had to significantly increase the FO % as this is what is what is recommended as well as an increase in the dye %. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I does seem to be a good product (CB Advanced), I like it. It's just taken me about 20 lbs to find some wicks I like in various containers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeebean Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think your candles look great! When I tried the advanced I loved how it looked but I could not get a good throw from it. Have fun testing, I found it to be so addicting lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAgirl89 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think your candles look great! When I tried the advanced I loved how it looked but I could not get a good throw from it. Have fun testing, I found it to be so addicting lol.I had the same issue when I tested with it. 464 wax had a much better HT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbs Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I LOVE the look of adv but hate the HT. I have better luck with mixing 464 and adv. I'm testing a jar now with the mix and smell a 8oz "jamaica me crazy" candle from my kitchen to my living room. i do live in a 2 bed apartment but believe me I couldn't get the adv to throw right in front of my face.Here are the tops of my candles with 464/cba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuzyK Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Those look great! Nice smooth tops. I am still in the process of trying to figure out which ones to try first. I want to pick a wax or 2 to try and really learn how to make them work for me.I am looking forward to seeing more of your results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjdaines Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I LOVE the look of adv but hate the HT. I have better luck with mixing 464 and adv. I'm testing a jar now with the mix and smell a 8oz "jamaica me crazy" candle from my kitchen to my living room. i do live in a 2 bed apartment but believe me I couldn't get the adv to throw right in front of my face.Here are the tops of my candles with 464/cba.Interesting, I haven't been thrilled with the HT of the Advanced, mixing with some 464 could be a fun experiment. Any suggestions for a ratio of mix to start at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njcandle Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 I will test 50/50 and 75/25 on both ends to see which one works better.. Ill let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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