Bella Rose Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Amazing! that's a forum first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraciS Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Amazing! that's a forum firstI'll take this as sarcasm...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Lol Please do!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Getting back to the original topic of tempering.....My experience with working with soy taught me that the best way to begin is by following the manufacturers recommendations for heating and pouring the wax. I've tried various tempering methods of heating and cooling then reheating and found no difference in the outcome of the finished candle. What I did find relevant are heating temp, pouring temps, room temp, seasonal temp, etc. These temps always have a direct impact on the finished candle that no amount of tempering would change.One thing I have learned from this forum is that the same info can be passed on and on until it becomes 'truth'. I remember when I started out with paraffin candles and everyone said to add crisco shortening to the wax to make the candles have better scent throw and glass adhesion. I did this for several months 'convinced' that it worked. Then one day I forgot to add it and discovered all the candles I made came out the same without it except that they didn't smoke they way they used to. Back then everyone said to use crisco but now I never read or hear about it anymore. So I consider it a fad and feel the same way about tempering in soy or adding coconut oil to soy or crisco to paraffin.. I tried them all and eventually quit as time and experience showed me they were not effective.I don't feel its silly or not relevant to give something a try. Thats how we all learn. If you feel tempering is worth a try then go for it. Doesn't mean that you won't come up with a new technique or additive that works that nobody else has tried. I've also learned that it is most definitely worth giving your ideas a try even if the experts don't agree. I have learned new techniques on my own and thru something someone tried out on their own and posted here even thou they had to battle many naysayers. Its also true that 'proven' techniques posted here are not always necessarily so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Candybee, thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 LOL Candybee about using Crisco. When I started pouring in 2001 I read that too. So I always added it to my J50. I had the same problem with the smoking...and I swear you could smell the shortening when the candle was burning. It smelled like hubby was deep frying...lol. And I would always burn a candle after he DID that because I can't stand the "aftersmell" of frying in the house. (He has since bought a commercial deep fryer and uses it in the garage). Anyway...I was out of Crisco and wanted to pour some testers so I went ahead pouring without it and could not see ANY difference either. As far as tempering wax. Personally I don't and don't plan to. When I was testing 464 I never had a problem with the look or throw of the scents I tested. I've been using a parasoy for 3 years and really don't think there is a need to temper this wax. I melt wax in a large turkey roaster and also a presto pot. I sometimes fill the roaster and melt a large amount of wax even though I know I am not going to be pouring all of it. Then the next day or whenever I pour again I reheat it...so I guess in a way I AM tempering it but...I would never temper just for the sake of tempering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Same ol', same ol'...If tempering were not important to soy wax, the manufacturers would not bother to do this on their end. This is how the food industry and oleoscience has benefited the vegetable wax industry. For those who think it's bunk, just because you don't believe in science doesn't mean it's not there anyway. Many people ARE tempering during their melting and pouring procedure - they just do not realize they are doing so.I DO temper my soy wax and the results of the minor effort involved is, IMHO, quite beneficial and easily demonstrated.If an individual is NOT having any issues with frosting and texture stability, then why in the world would they change a thing about their procedure? But if one IS having difficulty or trying to improve some aspect of their candle's appearance or stability, it is reasonable that they might explore other methods. Simply posting that one just melts and pours and has no problem is a waste of bandwidth. If ya don't care about it, think it's crap, why interfere with the discussion of others who want to investigate other techniques? It's no skin off those who have all the answers (or as many as they want) for others who don't to seek more knowledge and understanding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliverOfWax Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 lol. Stella, apparently you missed the fact that people in this thread who have tried this hocus pocus have said it didn't make a difference. I know for a fact that some people who have commented have successful, long term businesses. Why waste time and resources (electricity, gas, whatever) on meaningless nonsense? Those who are just piddling around might have time for it; most of us don't. When long time chandlers have experimented and say something doesn't make a difference, you can pretty much rest assured they know what they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Would everyone agree that first burn creates a memory pattern for subsequent burns? Partial meltpools from short term burns are difficult to overcome and often times results in tunnelling and the subsequent failure of the candle. I just have to go with the remark that it makes more sense to use a wax that does not require steps to make it work. If a person is just dead determined to make a wax behave; then tempering is a possible solution if it provides results. Anything is bs if it doesn't provide you with results but it may be anything but bs for the person who gains from the effort. Kudos to anyone who comes on the board in search of answers or positive feedback. That's what a good forum provides. Please leave all cash contributions at the door. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisR Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Would everyone agree that first burn creates a memory pattern for subsequent burns? Partial meltpools from short term burns are difficult to overcome and often times results in tunnelling and the subsequent failure of the candle. Sorry, no I don't agree with that statement. I have purposefully burned short term on an initial burn and alternated a normal burn and short burn for the remainder of a candle and had no problems. I tell my customers that one or 2 short burns throughout a candle will not cause tunneling, as long as subsequent burns are at least 4 hours. I have done this with container and pillar candles with no adverse effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraciS Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I guess I don't understand why any chandler would temper their wax if the manufacturer's are doing this on their end already as Stella has pointed out. I personally have tried both methods mentioned and saw no physical difference nor any difference burning in my wax of choice. I guess each person should decide what they want to go through to make their wax of choice behave for them. I pour too many candles to wait the hours it takes for a melter to cool and then reheat. If that's what it took for me turn out a quality candle I would be moving on to a different wax pronto. But this is my business. If you have the time, spend all the time you want on each candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraciS Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I agree. It takes a couple long burns to overcome short burns if they are the first burns but the candle does catch up once longer burns are done. Sorry, no I don't agree with that statement. I have purposefully burned short term on an initial burn and alternated a normal burn and short burn for the remainder of a candle and had no problems. I tell my customers that one or 2 short burns throughout a candle will not cause tunneling, as long as subsequent burns are at least 4 hours. I have done this with container and pillar candles with no adverse effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I do believe I stated that I melt a roaster full of wax...pour the candles that I need or want to pour and turn the roaster off when I am done. The next day or whenever I pour again I reheat that wax and add more. So like I said...I guess in a way I AM tempering. But...for me to use the electricity to simply melt 1/2 case of wax...turn it off to cool and reheat it again. My husband would shoot me for running up the electric bill. I could save money by driving to Fillmore Container and buying C3. I have a case here and tested it...didn't care for it. I can melt CBL130/parasoy and pour right away with no frosting or blooming issues. And as I said...I have tested a lot of my scents in GB464 and poured right away with no frosting issues. So for me...when I am very busy around the holidays I want to be able to melt and pour. My customers love my candles or they wouldn't be coming back to buy more for...it will be 10 years in June since I started selling them. Of course...it's up to each person how they want to run their candle pouring/making business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Maybe some of the confusion is that tempering seems to be mainly for soy wax. I didn't know the poster was asking about soy (since it's in this section) or I wouldn't have commented. I don't use soy and know nothing about it. There probably many other things that are done for soy that I don't know about or use in paraffin.Or maybe I'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Would everyone agree that first burn creates a memory pattern for subsequent burns? Partial meltpools from short term burns are difficult to overcome and often times results in tunnelling and the subsequent failure of the candle. I just have to go with the remark that it makes more sense to use a wax that does not require steps to make it work. If a person is just dead determined to make a wax behave; then tempering is a possible solution if it provides results. Anything is bs if it doesn't provide you with results but it may be anything but bs for the person who gains from the effort. Kudos to anyone who comes on the board in search of answers or positive feedback. That's what a good forum provides. Please leave all cash contributions at the door. SteveI disagree, too. I've burned too many candles for the love of natural light, before I started making my own. I could assure you that short term burns do not have any impact on the quality and/or burn.. and I've never experienced tunneling when doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I agree that one or two short term burns will probably not ruin the entire burn of a candle, but how much "damage" it does depends on when the short-burns occur in the life of the candle, the wax, the type (container, pillar or votive), the size and the shape of the candle in question. One thing is for sure: in many cases, as soon as one makes an absolute statement, exceptions will pop up. I think it's best practice to burn candles according to the instructions of the person who made them. Edited February 10, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) This is a little off topic but I found this interesting article on tempering chocolate. There are similarities in soy wax and chocolate in that they both form crystals when cooling. Scroll down to the "seed method" in the tempering section. The tempering technique they talk about involving the double boiler and 'seed' chocolate sounds like something that could be tried with soy wax. At least I have never tried seeding my wax:http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/155/Tempering-Chocolate Edited February 10, 2011 by Candybee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) I use both methods - temperature manipulation and seeding. For new folks, here's a link to an old thread from 2006 - back when CT members were testing 464. It has a good post by Jason (of Golden Brands) regarding tempering. It's post #174 on the link below (the entire thread is a wonderful read about people who test...). Jason is the rep for Golden Brands, BTW...http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18739&highlight=tempering&page=18 Edited February 11, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thank you for the link, Stella. Going to read it now and hopefully it'll tell me something about "seeding" (never heard that term before Or maybe it just applies to chocolate! :laugh2:). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I use both methods - temperature manipulation and seeding. For new folks, here's a link to an old thread from 2006 - back when CT members were testing 464. It has a good post by Jason (of Golden Brands) regarding tempering. It's post #174 on the link below (the entire thread is a wonderful read about people who test...). Jason is the rep for Golden Brands, BTW...http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18739&highlight=tempering&page=18I read that thread a few weeks ago after your recommendation, Stella. It definitely makes sense, and I temper my wax without even thinking about it too much, it's just the way I do things, and one of the steps I take to produce a candle. It's natural.I guarantee you the anti tempering folks on this board probably also do it without realizing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Nope. Don't temper my soy wax. As I mentioned earlier through my experience found it made no difference whatsoever on the outcome of the finished candle.I posted the article on chocolate tempering because I thought it was interesting. I also had not tried the 'seeding' method as described in the chocolate tempering and thought it would be fun to give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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