Scented Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Curious if we can make this recipe better, a little harder, but still have some slip and glide and be able to survive much warmer months than oh -6 10 oz Ultra Shea butter (though I did use unrefined)2 T Coconut Oil 1 T Veg oil (though I did use Hemp and it really isn't that light of an oil, but goes well with a patch scent)1 T mentol crystals (melted) ... and be prepared for it to be overpowering2 tsp. glycerinFO or EO (optional)Over low heat melt the shea butter until temp reaches 175 and hold it there for 20 minutes (yeah ok). Melt the menthol crystals in a microwave or over low heat in another pan. Add the remaining ingredients, the mentol crystals, scent and stir till incorporated (and then stir some more). Pour into tin or plastic container and let cool completely. Now it says the balm may look soft for the first day (and it is) and will dry more the following day. It's not greasy when it goes on and has pretty good glide, but I expected it to make more than it did and I am not thinking it is something that will hold up in much warmer months. Thoughts or ideas on alterations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovelyLathers Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I don't think it will hold up in the heat, anything about 70 is going to make it liquefy unless you are using 96 coconut. I am not sure what the melting point for virgin CO is (if you are using it).. That sure is a lot of Mentholated Crystals. I am so tired tonight to think but I will look again tomorrow at it. I wish the weather wasn't going to be so rotten tomorrow so I could go to my shop and play around with it but no way in an ice storm and no supplies here to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think it's going to take more than the 96 coconut for it. It's still soft, but on much warmer days it's going to need more help to stay firm I think. This is someone else's recipe, but I want to make it better. Interesting enough is that either didn't stir the crystals enough or the mint portion does get light in the final product, but it's also covered by a FO at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What about a little soy wax. It will definitely add some hardness but will still have those glide on and melt on contact with warm skin characteristics. Sort of like a solid lotion. I use Ecosoya CB135 in my solid lotion bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudMarineMom Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 What about reducing the Shea a little and adding some Cocoa or Kokum butter? Not sure how soft you want your bars to be. Or, instead add a little beeswax. Not sure how much drag that might give you though. Only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is using some Babassu. But, I think that melts at skin temp as well, so may not buy you much more than 96 Coconut.In the office, so don't have my notes. Will take a look at some of the recipes I've played around with when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Right now it's too soft for bars. It can be poured into plastic and tin stuff, but it isn't something that can go into a stick. I have a recipe for that kind of stuff and I don't make it as a massage bar, but more like a solid perfume. I will have to swap out some shea for the cocoa and/or kokum. Just want to be sure to still have some slip and glide. Candybee, I'll even give the soy wax a try and see if I mind having wax in the mix. I was surprised the recipe didn't call for it, but at the same time, it's nice that it isn't in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudMarineMom Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 If you use the soy, maybe use a little Cyclo or IPM to help with the glide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luci Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 When I first read the recipe, I was surprised that it didn't call for at least a little of some type of wax and was thinking soy like what Candybee said. If you try adding it, please let us know what your results are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBrat Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I say use unrefined shea, kokum or illipe butters, add beeswax or jojoba esters, ditch the glycerine and hemp. Hemp will make it rancid quickly over time. You could try safflower oil instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 When I first read the recipe, I was surprised that it didn't call for at least a little of some type of wax and was thinking soy like what Candybee said. If you try adding it, please let us know what your results are.Yes, I was surprised myself. Will be giving it a try soon I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 I say use unrefined shea, kokum or illipe butters, add beeswax or jojoba esters, ditch the glycerine and hemp. Hemp will make it rancid quickly over time. You could try safflower oil instead.I don't have the illipe, but I have the other. I used the hemp to use up what I do have this go around, but it doesn't specifically call for it, I just wanted to use it with the patch fragrance I am using. Now why would you suggest ditching the glycerin? Curious, as it is said to trap moisture into the skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBrat Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Now that I think of it glycerin is fine, I was thinking of mineral oil for some reason..lol..two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 I have the mineral oil too ... and can't remember why. We can venture to OT with suggestions for the mineral oil. It might jar a cobweb loose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorrie Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Scented I agree with everyone who said to add Kokum or cocoa butter to it. Maybe split the shea 50/50 with cocoa butter.And soy wax has a lower melt point than beeswax so maybe try some beeswax instead if you are looking to make it harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I think I'm getting why the shea. It goes on smooth and not greasy, though it might seem so just looking at the recipe and it moves pretty well, but ... it will also get gritty too. Must dig up my cocoa butter, because I cannot be down to what I'm seeing. No way. I want to give the two butters a try and see and I will. Great way to use up the rest of the shea I do have, just the stuff needs to be a bit more solid IMO. Edited February 3, 2011 by Scented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorrie Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 You have deodorized cocoa right? They smell of the prime may come through. Also like I said try adding a little bit of beeswax. I have found that soy wax with its lower melt point leaves my skin feeling greasey.IPM can also take some of the greasiness away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 No I have the full throttle cocoa butter. I'm not terribly fond of the butters that have been stripped of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovelyLathers Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I made some today and did the 50% Cocoa Butter 50% unrefined shea. It is setting up nicely when I left the shop but it was only an hour since I made it. I will let you know tomorrow how it does. oh and I also added about a half ounce of soy wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm interested in how it turns out. From what I gathered from the recipe and what I'm seeing here in the original batch, it takes at least a day to harden up some. Did you cut back on the menthol crystals at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singleyellowrose Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 The 2T of Menthol crystals is too much IMHO. This formula has 3.8% which is almost double what the "normal" usage rate is.Menthol Crystal Typical Usage Rate 1.5 - 2% What I would do with this recipe is:8oz shea.... mebbe. I like painya butter better, but it's a "drier" butter. Possibly split it with the shea.2oz Cocoa Butter or Kokum or a blend of both1T jojoba1.5tsp Menthol crystalsDoubt I would use the glycerin since it's water soluble. But not sure what I would add in its place either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudMarineMom Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 May I ask a silly question? Is the Glycerin in the recipe as a humectant or just for the glide? If it's purpose is a humectant, maybe you could sub OO or honeyquat. I've been playing with Hydrovance in some of my stuff with good results.If it's for the glide I'm still thinking something like cyclo. Haven't played with esters yet, but have some on the way from Lotioncrafters. Can't wait to see what those can do.Now, I admit I'm still learning about B&B products and the various ingredients. So, I apologize if I'm on the wrong track. Just basing it on everything I have read and my experimentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singleyellowrose Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 While Hydrovance is nice, in some formulas it can change the PH over time.Lotioncrafter has a nice formula for a massage butter that you could tweak to make harder.It's called Divine Decadence Massage Butter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovelyLathers Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Here are the results of my experiment after 24 hours. Yes I did use the full amount of Mentholated crystals. Scent faded more that I expected. I did not add any FO or EO to it at all.Batch 1 is exactly as posted, very soft it would not even do well in a tin. I would be afraid it would leak all over if selling it. Batch 2 made with 50% cocoa butter 50% shea, still soft.Batch 3 added 1 oz Castor wax, I realized this AM that it was castor wax and not soy wax as I had wanted. That will teach me to make sure I am paying attention to what I grab while someone is talking to me. Not bad at all. I was surprised at how much glide it has as I know in lip balms I found it sticky. I do think it is oily but it did soak in nice also. About an hour after putting it on there is no sign of oil or the mentholated scent. It is in a tube, holds up good while rubbing it on. Batch 3 added 1 oz bee's wax. It is ok . It also is in a tube, glides on good. but it is oily and heaver than the castor wax an hour later there is a very tiny bit of greasy feeling to the area. I am really no as happy with it as I am the castor wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Interesting. Well at least our first results match. I actually like the feel of the bloody recipe, but I want it harder. I was pretty surprised by the fading of the crystals, but at the same time, I was also surprised it hardened as much as it did. I will have to play some as I have not had the time to do so. Got any thoughts on if this might be better for say a malibu tube? Lori, yes, I snagged that recipe, but haven't worked with it yet. I just happened to find this recipe and it's a first. I stuck in the VDay swap, a little sample of it that is. I'm experimenting with massage treatment things and so far I think I like the oil best, but I do want to try a massage lotion and see how it compares to a balm. However, I want a bit harder balm is the problem too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singleyellowrose Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Okay.. Here is your base recipe: (it's even in YOUR measurements!!!)10 oz Ultra Shea butter (though I did use unrefined)2 T Coconut Oil 1 T Veg oil (though I did use Hemp and it really isn't that light of an oil, but goes well with a patch scent)1 T mentol crystals (melted) ... and be prepared for it to be overpowering2 tsp. glycerinFO or EO (optional)Lotioncrafter's calls for 5% Cetyl so why not add that to what you already have and see what it brings to the formula.It says on her site that they are adding it to help with summer heat stability.If I can ever find a wee bit of time to play, I might try it, but i don't see it in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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