Technical wax questions

[schmism]

Im new here and somewhat new to candle makeing. (skip to the stars for the questions toward the bottom) A little quick background. I live in rural IL on a hobby farm. Im an engineer by profession and a "crafty" type including woodworking, spinning, gardening, beekeeping etc.

My interest in candles stems from watching my mother in law which LOVES candles burn huge numbers of the crappiest quality pillar candles each holiday season. Each year a pile of dead and or "malfunctioning" candles would pile up. Knowing all it takes is to toss them in a pot and melt them down and pour them into a new shape with a new wick and instant new candle

in theory at least....

So word gets out that im "playing" with candles and now my parents contribute old candles to my supply. My dad who loves to shop at estate sales comes home with boxes of candles that he picked up for a couple of bucks....

So when takeing a bunch of random left over candle bits and melting them all together and pouring them into a mold, then adding a generic "med" wick (from michaels) its surpriseing to see how poorly the new versions burn.

SO I assume that its my wick... so i research wicks... HOLY CRAP there is a arse tone of wick types! and of course none of them seem to have any meaningful description of what makes this type different from another.

So then it gets me thinking about the wax quality. Not all candle wax is created equal...

I mentioned i was a beekeeper and therefore have access to a nearly endless supply of beeswax. (although perhaps not in massive quantities) I do know that pure beeswax candles burn really well. I also know that for years paraffin wax was standard in candles. (i was surprised to find that the majority of wax these days seems to have something to do with soy.. whatever that is?!?!?!)

So for any given random melt batch i really wish i could take a small sample and load it into a mass spec machine and figure out what the composition of THIS batch of wax is. as im fresh out of mass spec machines ill have to rely on other data i can gather such as melting point and physical atributes such as hardness and "feel" and shrink amount

***********to the questions!

the melting temp of the candle varies how based on its ingredients? IE the more bees wax the closer the melting temp approaches 145deg. add more paraffin and lower the melting point? raise it?

are all paraffin waxes created equal? will 100% "paraffin" always have the same melt temp? or will it vary based on the nature of the loose definition of paraffin to being with.

Is melting point and physical hardness of a wax directly proportional?

is there a test of the "flammability" of a wax? which is to say, how well it burns on the wick. (soot production? it was my understanding that soot production was a function of wick type not wax makeup) how does adding various other fuels to wax affect burn performance. (like mineral oil or kerosene)

If i provide you with the same wick material and the same container (and or mold if doing a pillar) and the only data you have on the wax is melting point, what sort of melt pool exceptions can you have? the lower the melting point the larger the melt pool? and vise versa?

Do all waxes burn at the same temp? (is melt pool size relative to burn temp? eg the more heat the flame gives off the larger an area of wax it will melt?)

Can the crappiest burning candles be fixed simply with a different wick type or will they likely need to be mixed with better burning wax (such as beeswax or pure paraffin)?

[scentlady]

My advice is to go with the beeswax candles. There are wicks especially for beeswax and you can make a good quality candle. You will never get a good quality safe candle melting random old candles down. There are different kinds of wax, additives, and dyes, etc, some of which will never burn properly together no matter how much testing you do.

[chuck_35550]

Pillars are especially challenging candles. I have one that was given to me by a board member that retained its fragrance for years and still burns with never a flaw in the wall or melt pool. This is a very difficult achievement and one of the reasons why I stick with containers IMHO. You really need a good reference point with materials. There are all kinds of paraffins that are meant for all kinds of different uses and mixing them just gives you a barrel of unknowns. You have people out there who buy cheap candles and then rebatch them and sell them as their own. I think that's fraudulent, much less dangereous. Use the search and go back to the archives for reference and a starting point. Good luck.

Steve

[Vicky_CO]

the melting temp of the candle varies how based on its ingredients? IE the more bees wax the closer the melting temp approaches 145deg. add more paraffin and lower the melting point? raise it?

Anytime you add any thing to a wax the melt point is liable to change depending on the melt point of what is added

are all paraffin waxes created equal? will 100% "paraffin" always have the same melt temp? or will it vary based on the nature of the loose definition of paraffin to being with.

No container paraffin and pillar paraffin have totally different melt points. Even among each type there are different melt points. Then there is the paraffin for hurricane that has a higher melt point. Micro wax it goes on ands on

Is melting point and physical hardness of a wax directly proportional?

Not necessarily

is there a test of the "flammability" of a wax? which is to say, how well it burns on the wick. (soot production? it was my understanding that soot production was a function of wick type not wax makeup) how does adding various other fuels to wax affect burn performance. (like mineral oil or kerosene)

Not for the home use in a lab yes Never use Kerosene in a candle. You can use mineral oil if you are going for a certain type of physical effect.

If i provide you with the same wick material and the same container (and or mold if doing a pillar) and the only data you have on the wax is melting point, what sort of melt pool exceptions can you have? the lower the melting point the larger the melt pool? and vise versa?

I am going to say no here because of all the variables involved here. Even room temp has an effect on a burn so does elevation.

Do all waxes burn at the same temp? (is melt pool size relative to burn temp? eg the more heat the flame gives off the larger an area of wax it will melt?)

No to many variables can come in to play

Can the crappiest burning candles be fixed simply with a different wick type or will they likely need to be mixed with better burning wax (such as beeswax or pure paraffin)?

No crappy candles just need to be junked. You do not know what is in the wax for the crappy candle so you will not be able to fix it with any reliable results

Candle making is part art part science and a whole lot of experience. You will not even get the same burn in your beeswax from season to season because things change. Trial and error are the best teachers, keep good notes but start with good ingredient to begin with not recycled candle wax.

We are more than happy to answer you questions if we can.

[Brad Ford]

What Vicky said...good job!

[SliverOfWax]

You have people out there who buy cheap candles and then rebatch them and sell them as their own. I think that's fraudulent, much less dangereous.

Fraudulent?

Rebatched candles probably aren't the best candles, but to call rebatching "fraudulent" is a bit of a stretch. And if proper testing is done, it's no more dangerous than buying wax from a supplier. Some suppliers even sell scented, colored wax. I've never used it, nor have I "rebatched" any candles other than my own, lol, but I would hardly call doing so fraudulent.

Do you also think rebatching soap is fraudulent?

Perhaps the word you want is "relabel", not "rebatch".

[Swimeasy]

I bought a candle factory and am new to all of this! everything that we are making works great, but I don't know why! A gal that came with the place has been at this since the 70,s and she is teaching me a little each day and I am sure that I will be listening to her for years! We pour in a lot of molds and don't do containers. We use 135 m.p. parrifin and if you P.M. your phone # I will have her call you and you can ask her for help. She is an "old hippy" and is a real joy to rap with!! ( She talks about the days when they paid .15 cents a lb. for scrap wax and turned out good sand cast- citronella outdoor stuff using it) Good Luck, I am having a blast with all of this!

[Swimeasy]

BTW, We also sell wax that is raw, colored, and can put in f.o., crystals,ect. Good ,safe wax. We don't consider it fraud at all-melt away!!

[TacoWax]

I’m in the same boat as you. I just got the job of maintaining the candle at my church. There are tons of left over wax, to remake into candle. Thinking how simple it would be to just melt the wax and pour around a string. Well I was wrong.

· Reading the many posts in this forum, plus reading as many book as I can get from the library, it got me on the right track. The best book that I have read so far was “Candle Crafting, From an Art to a Science” by William Nussle. He explained in great detail every aspect of candle making.

· As far as I can see it’s easy to get the science part of the craft. The Art side is another story. From what I got from this forum is you have to test, test and keep on testing. It takes a lot of work just to get one perfect candle. I guess once you get there it's smoth sailing fron then on.

Yes I’m hooked on candle making. To make a business out of it, I don’t think so. I’ll leave it to the hard working members of this forum.

Yes I now have a completely different outlook on this craft. Now I won’t complain when my wife comes home with a $30.00 candle.

Good luck

[simplybeelightful]

The first thing I would do is toss all of the old candles! You have no idea what is in those candles and it would be very hard to get a good candle out of them. Remember when, as a kid, we used to make candles out of crayons? Fun craft but crappy candles!

Besides, being a beekeeper, why would you make anything but beeswax candles? It is the best!

I would have to disagree with an earlier post though, I think pillars are relatively easy to make.

Get some good poly molds from Mann Lake, use your beeswax, get the right wick, and you'll be hooked for good. Once you start burning your beeswax candles, you'll never burn anything else!

[EricofAZ]

One of the things we do with leftover wax/candles is to make firestarters. I never toss my old wax, it gets recycled with some small wax paper cups and hamster wood.

Now, beeswax is a different story. If I had a bunch of beeswax from a church I'd be looking into ways to recycle that. I don't think folks use any additives to beeswax church candles. I might be wrong, but usually they are made without color or fragrance and that would be great for melding and re-pouring.

Given the cost of beeswax, it makes sense to try.