question about essential oils...

[sparky38351]

Does anyone here use essential oils in their soy candles? If so, how much per pound of wax do you use???

[KLynn Kandles]

Did you ever try using the essential oils? I was wondering if you could use essential oils for scent?? Really would like to know how it turned out. Thanks

[moonshine]

Hi Sparky-

I have used and studied essential oils for a very long time and that is what eventually lead me into the candle making. You can use EO's in candles but you need to be very cautious in doing so- they can be harmful in high doses and there are certain ones that have been banned but still available on the internet that you should never use: pennyroyal being one of them

Are you using soy or paraffin? I have no experience in paraffin but in soy- and I recommend the CB 135 for EO's- you can use maximum of 6%- 1 oz per pound but this is very costly to do especially with pure EO. Even though the oil is not being absorbed in the skin it is being released into the air which in turn enters the blood stream- pregnant people should never use peppermint EO and neither should epileptics- it can trigger seizures and contractions- please read up on every oil you use and put the appropriate cautions on the candles.

I have used 6% with much success in scent throw and some I had to cut back because it was to strong- to 4 % but the scent may not last as long as FO either depending on what you use- EO's are very flammable so be careful what you use and test them first

Have fun and good luck

[EricofAZ]

I use EO's in palm candles. About 1.5 oz/lb. Works great. They are a bit spendy depending on what EO's are selected.

[Stella1952]

I use some EOs in both palm and soy. I have a strict rule not to use more than 1 oz. pp of any fragrance (because I'm so dang cheap). EOs are generally not as strong than FOs, but many folks prefer a more subtle fragrance. The concentration of the particular EO (just as with FOs) and the fragrance itself will have a lot to do with the throw you get.

Even though the oil is not being absorbed in the skin it is being released into the air which in turn enters the blood stream- pregnant people should never use peppermint EO and neither should epileptics- it can trigger seizures and contractions- please read up on every oil you use and put the appropriate cautions on the candles.

I'm sorry, but your information is not accurate for this application.

I have not read any scientific evidence or studies that would preclude using 1 oz. PP of any EO in candles for pregnant or most epileptic* people. The amount of EO released into the air when burning a candle (only a minute portion of which is absorbed into the bloodstream via the lungs) is WELL below any medicinal concentration!

I have read a lot of unsubstantiated statements on aromatherapy sites, quoted and requoted, that are spreading misinformation and misunderstanding about the applications and amounts in question (including pennyroyal).

Here's what mainstream medical folks have to say:

This link from the journal of the Association of American Family Physicians states:

"... the amount of peppermint in over-the-counter medications, topical preparations, and herbal teas is likely safe in pregnant and lactating women and in young children."

It also states: "Peppermint oil should only be used at the recommended doses because significant toxicity can occur at higher doses. Even the recommended medicinal doses of peppermint oil should not be used in infants or very young children, or in women who are pregnant or lactating."

Key term is "recommended medicinal doses" referring to oral ingestion of peppermint EO.

From the NIH US Library of of Medicine Medline Plus site:

"Special precautions & warnings:

Pregnancy and breast-feeding: It is LIKELY SAFE to take peppermint in amounts normally found in food during pregnancy and breast-feeding. But not enough is known about the safety of taking larger amounts used for medicine. It’s best not to take these larger amounts if you are pregnant or breast-feeding."

As far as epilepsy and peppermint oil, I was not able to find any medical contraindications for its use by epileptics except that OVERDOSE may cause seizures. People whose seizures are *triggered by strong odors should be cautious around it as well as other strong scents. I did, however, read several accounts on the epilepsy foundation forum of epileptics drinking peppermint tea to relax them... The ones who find it soothing claim it has a positive effect on decreasing the number and severity of their seizures. But, again, peppermint tea does NOT contain medicinal dosages of peppermint EO.

It's simple common sense that people with health issues or pregnant women should be extra cautious about exposure to any chemicals in their environment. It is the responsibility of customers who have health issues and environmental concerns to inform themselves about their particular conditions and not rely upon extra verbiage on a warning label.

EO's are very flammable so be careful what you use and test them first

EOs are no more flammable in general than are FOs. I think you are confused about "flashpoint." If you search this site (or Google) you will find that for a substance to ignite at its flashpoint, three things must be present: fuel, oxygen and a source of ignition.

Here's the definition from Wikipedia:

The flash point of a volatile liquid is the lowest temperature at which it can vaporize to form an ignitable mixture in air. Measuring a liquid's flash point requires an ignition source. At the flash point, the vapor may cease to burn when the source of ignition is removed.

The flash point is not to be confused with the autoignition temperature, which does not require an ignition source.

The fire point, a higher temperature, is defined as the temperature at which the vapor continues to burn after being ignited. Neither the flash point nor the fire point is related to the temperature of the ignition source or of the burning liquid, which are much higher.

Since FOs and EOs are incorporated into a much larger volume of wax, the FO/EO flashpoint is no longer the same. HTH

[moonshine]

I use some EOs in both palm and soy. I have a strict rule not to use more than 1 oz. pp of any fragrance (because I'm so dang cheap). EOs are generally not as strong than FOs, but many folks prefer a more subtle fragrance. The concentration of the particular EO (just as with FOs) and the fragrance itself will have a lot to do with the throw you get.

I'm sorry, but your information is not accurate for this application.

I have not read any scientific evidence or studies that would preclude using 1 oz. PP of any EO in candles for pregnant or most epileptic* people. The amount of EO released into the air when burning a candle (only a minute portion of which is absorbed into the bloodstream via the lungs) is WELL below any medicinal concentration!

I have read a lot of unsubstantiated statements on aromatherapy sites, quoted and requoted, that are spreading misinformation and misunderstanding about the applications and amounts in question (including pennyroyal).

Here's what mainstream medical folks have to say:

This link from the journal of the Association of American Family Physicians states:

"... the amount of peppermint in over-the-counter medications, topical preparations, and herbal teas is likely safe in pregnant and lactating women and in young children."

It also states: "Peppermint oil should only be used at the recommended doses because significant toxicity can occur at higher doses. Even the recommended medicinal doses of peppermint oil should not be used in infants or very young children, or in women who are pregnant or lactating."

Key term is "recommended medicinal doses" referring to oral ingestion of peppermint EO.

From the NIH US Library of of Medicine Medline Plus site:

"Special precautions & warnings:

Pregnancy and breast-feeding: It is LIKELY SAFE to take peppermint in amounts normally found in food during pregnancy and breast-feeding. But not enough is known about the safety of taking larger amounts used for medicine. It’s best not to take these larger amounts if you are pregnant or breast-feeding."

As far as epilepsy and peppermint oil, I was not able to find any medical contraindications for its use by epileptics except that OVERDOSE may cause seizures. People whose seizures are *triggered by strong odors should be cautious around it as well as other strong scents. I did, however, read several accounts on the epilepsy foundation forum of epileptics drinking peppermint tea to relax them... The ones who find it soothing claim it has a positive effect on decreasing the number and severity of their seizures. But, again, peppermint tea does NOT contain medicinal dosages of peppermint EO.

It's simple common sense that people with health issues or pregnant women should be extra cautious about exposure to any chemicals in their environment. It is the responsibility of customers who have health issues and environmental concerns to inform themselves about their particular conditions and not rely upon extra verbiage on a warning label.

EOs are no more flammable in general than are FOs. I think you are confused about "flashpoint." If you search this site (or Google) you will find that for a substance to ignite at its flashpoint, three things must be present: fuel, oxygen and a source of ignition. Since FOs and EOs are incorporated into a much larger volume of wax, the FO/EO flashpoint is no longer the same. HTH

Sorry for ruining this thread Sparky but....

wow Stella..you ARE Einstein- you just SEEM to think you know everything about EVERYTHING dont you-

My information is NOT incorrect for this application- I hardly think all the courses I have taken in Aromatherapy approved by NAHA are "misinforming" me!

I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone in detail who obviously has nothing better to do than go on here and TRY and miscredit everything people say- are you really that person....

YES the amount of Oil absorbed is minute from a candle BUT dont you think its wise to be cautious about it and label the product accordingly? You yourself are always preaching to "newbies" safety, safety, safety, read, read, read- If a new candle maker went and dumped a bottle of peppermint EO into a candle YES there would be problems- I was only advising the urgency to be careful in using certain oils and read, read, read before you use!!

"the amount of peppermint in over-the-counter medications, topical preparations, and herbal teas is likely safe in pregnant and lactating women and in young children"

Didnt realize the tea we drink contains pure EO- hardly the same as a few peppermint leaves

"It is the responsibility of customers who have health issues and environmental concerns to inform themselves about their particular conditions and not rely upon extra verbiage on a warning label."

A simple precautionary warning is much better than accusations down the road

No Im not confused about flashpoint- it was another precautionary warning to a new candle maker getting ready to dive into essential oils knowing nothing about them

YES epilyptic and pregnant people SHOULD avoid PURE peppermint-

Peppermint Essential Oil

Botanical Name: Mentha piperita

Common Method of Extraction: Steam Distilled

Color: Clear with a Yellow Tinge

Consistency: Thin

Perfumery Note: Top

Strength of Initial Aroma: Strong

Aromatic Description: Minty, reminiscent of peppermint candies, but more concentrated. More fragrant than spearmint.

Possible Uses: Asthma, colic, exhaustion, fever, flatulence, headache, nausea, scabies, sinusitis, vertigo. [Julia Lawless, The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Essential Oils (Rockport, MA: Element Books, 1995), 59-67.]

Constituents: Menthyl Acetate, Menthone, Cineole, Limonene, Phellandrene, Pinene, Beta-Caryophyllene [shirley Price, The Aromatherapy Workbook (Hammersmith, London: Thorsons, 1993), 54-5.]

Safety Information: Avoid in cardiac fibrillation, epilepsy, fever. Mucous membrane irritant and neurotoxic (toxic to the nerves).

so there you have the epilepsy warning

I have poisoned myself with inhaling to much EO not realizing the potency of them- I was very sick for several months

I stand behind using caution with EO even though its diluted in wax

1 ounce per pound probably will not have any effect on people but if you remember the thread in the first place- the question was how much can I use???

[sparky38351]

No one is ruining it. I love to hear a good debate! It's interesting to hear everyones ideas concering EO

[Ring of Fire]

Thank you moonshine. How refreshing.

[carol k]

Amen, Moonshine.

[SliverOfWax]

Dittos to everything moonshine said.

As far as using EO in candles.....not worth the expense and bother, imo. FO's are generally better for candles. Again, imo.

Edited January 25, 2011 by SliverOfWax

[deb426]

WTG...moonshine! Edited January 25, 2011 by deb426

[Maggie]

Thank you Moonshine.

I worked in a greenhouse...in the house plant and herb area. When people bought herbs we gave them a handout that listed each herb and any cautions. Including cautions if you have birds or cats. Before that...I never realized the toxicity of certain herbs.

[EricofAZ]

I think we all know (hope so) that too much of anything is bad. Unfortunately, sometimes we have no clue where to draw the line.

I have learned, Stella, that warnings of high dosages are often slanted a bit towards commerce. For example, you may read on the internet that soy food products are good but in high doses can cause an acute pancreatic reaction (pancreatitis) in monkeys and rats. Well, I went off meat and onto a veggie diet for a while. I transitioned with some soy and ended up eating a lot of soy. I then ended up spending 11 days in the hospital on total parental nutrition with an acute pancreas. I realized later that the warnings were insufficient. If monkeys can contract this horribly painful situation (morphine for 3 days, and I have a high pain threshold) then so can humans.

I now take warnings of "excessive use" and "high quantities" to mean "any amount can get you!"

Moonshine, I have an EO formula that I've posted here that seems to be working pretty well. I'd be curious if anything sounds inappropriate. I mixed what I think are blood pressure lowering EO's into palm and it is a favorite candle. Even parts of Lavender (low camphor), Clary Sage, and Ylang Ylang with a pinch of Valencia Orange, Lemon and Valerian Root.

When I light this thing off, I just can't resist taking in a deep breath and it really is relaxing.

I'd add Neruli and Chamomile, but those are like $1500 / pound.

On the Lavender, I can't afford English Lavender, but Bulgarian is pretty close. Spike has too much camphor. Lavandin might be better, not sure.

Edited January 26, 2011 by EricofAZ

[moonshine]

Thanks everyone for the backup

I may not be an experienced "chandler" but that is why I joined this forum -to learn everything I can to make a decent candle- but I do have a little knowledge in EO's (I dont know everything)- I am NOT certified--YET and thought I could offer something here in terms of what I have learned about them so far

Most states do not require you be certified in aromatherapy to make and sell products containing Essential Oils which is pretty scary, if you are administering them to people you have to have certification- I do not plan on adminstering but want the certification for my own personal

satisifaction so I can comfortably back up and know the warnings of each of the oils for the products that I make.

I make alot of "potions" for horses and it is being well known in my area (kinda scary) and people call me up before they go buy a chemical- treating lice for example.... on the bottle of powder for a horse it states how toxic the product is- wear a mask, gloves do not breathe in the product- pretty impossible when your coating a 1000lb plus horse in a powder with the slightest breeze- and how do you protect the horse...they have to wear the crap and then need it re-applied every couple of weeks to make sure you have killed the eggs!

I brought home a rescue a couple years back that my daughter knew and showed in the past- excellent western pleasure horse-he was 400lbs underweight, lost most of his teeth due to trying to scrap whatever nutrition he could off the frozen ground and fence posts and he was full of lice....I could hardly get him on and off the trailer and he was so weak and lifeless and HUNGRY so I bought the powder crap for the lice and just couldnt bring myself to do it- he was already so compromised and had bald spots everywhere from rubbing that were oozing and infected (I should post a pic-it was pathetic) so real long story short I went in and rounded up oils I knew had repellent qualities, researched their safety in animals and put the "human" safe ratio into a base of neem oil- neem stinks like nothing I have ever smelled before- real strong garlic sulphur odor- and it was winter-cold and miserable- I kept adding hot water to the spray bottle to dilute it more and make it more sprayable (neem is very thick) and threw a heavy winter blanket on him- next day despite the fact that he was glowing a orange yellow in all the bald spots- all the lice were immobilized- I could not find one that was moving, it was to cold to bathe him so after brushing him real good and checking him on a daily basis I had not ever found another moving bug on him- the potion killed the eggs as well! A friend of mine took a baby from that farm and same thing- full of lice and the potion worked in one application- the plus side to all of it was that the bald spots started to grow thick healthy hair within 2 days- the hair is discolored from nerve damage, he was blistered and raw from rubbing and the sores healed very quickly also attributed to the neem oil.

Since then I have provided a few others with this potion (lice is rare in horses) and it worked beautifully for them as well.

I am rambling again but my point of this whole thing is I would never insinuate that I know everthing about EO's- and I always use extreme caution with them- and as Stella pointed out there is alot of "misleading" information regarding them- you can go to two different sites on the web and get two different answers (and the web itself had very little info on them)- so who is to say SHE is not being misled by what she has read- to tell someone their information is "incorrect" for candle application blows me away- you can never be to safe with EO's. AND one more thing- the links she provided for family physicians (I did not click on them)- family physicians and holistic practioners are NOT the same thing- one has been educated and certified in Aromatherapy- herbs and oils-I worked in an office that had both and they butt heads quite often-in a friendly way- anyone watch Private Practice??? same thing- a holistic Doc with regular MD's- dont always agree

sorry for the long post- I easily get carried away!!

[SliverOfWax]

Ahhhhh. Anybody who rescues animals is A-OK in my book.

And you're absolutely correct. Anybody can find anything on the internet to back up their misassumptions and incorrect information, then copy and paste it wherever they please. Next thing ya know, folks actually believe those copiers and pasters know what they're talking about.

Belated welcome to CT. I don't hang out too much here, but I'll watch for your voice of reason.

[moonshine]

I think we all know (hope so) that too much of anything is bad. Unfortunately, sometimes we have no clue where to draw the line.

I have learned, Stella, that warnings of high dosages are often slanted a bit towards commerce. For example, you may read on the internet that soy food products are good but in high doses can cause an acute pancreatic reaction (pancreatitis) in monkeys and rats. Well, I went off meat and onto a veggie diet for a while. I transitioned with some soy and ended up eating a lot of soy. I then ended up spending 11 days in the hospital on total parental nutrition with an acute pancreas. I realized later that the warnings were insufficient. If monkeys can contract this horribly painful situation (morphine for 3 days, and I have a high pain threshold) then so can humans.

I now take warnings of "excessive use" and "high quantities" to mean "any amount can get you!"

Moonshine, I have an EO formula that I've posted here that seems to be working pretty well. I'd be curious if anything sounds inappropriate. I mixed what I think are blood pressure lowering EO's into palm and it is a favorite candle. Even parts of Lavender (low camphor), Clary Sage, and Ylang Ylang with a pinch of Valencia Orange, Lemon and Valerian Root.

When I light this thing off, I just can't resist taking in a deep breath and it really is relaxing.

I'd add Neruli and Chamomile, but those are like $1500 / pound.

On the Lavender, I can't afford English Lavender, but Bulgarian is pretty close. Spike has too much camphor. Lavandin might be better, not sure.

Hi EricofAZ

Your candle sounds absolutely amazing and I did a quick reference to the ingredients and the only one that "could" be a threat is the clary sage

here is a precautionary warning regarding that oil- again its in extreme doses whether through inhalation or skin application:

Safety Data: Avoid in hypotension, estrogen dependant cancers, and while pregnant.

Various sources state that the scalreol content contained within Clary Sage may induce an "estrogen-like action." For that reason, it would be wise for those with breast cancer, at high risk for breast cancer or that need to carefully regulate their estrogen levels avoid Clary Sage

The rest are perfect for anxiety and calming effects- and the only other that has a warning is Lemon- it can be phototoxic but unless you take your melted wax and rub it all over and bake yourself in the sunshine.....haha

I use the bulgarian Lavender and the 40/42 - 40/42 is less expensive but does not have as much "therapeutic" qualities it is more for scent and perfumes

Chamomile, Neroli and Rose are insanely priced!! I have used Egyptian Rose Geranium and love it- it has both qualities of rose and geranium and its somewhat affordable- it is very "balancing" believe it helps horses and riders relax before going into the show ring- I have several requests to bring this potion to the high school competitions!

Good luck and it all sounds good- if you choose to keep the clary sage(I use this alot in horse baths) you could just put a warning on the label - the amount in your candle is probably safe but the warning is there

I buy most of my oils from Snowdrift Farm and Mountain Rose Herbs- Mountain Rose has very accurate up to date information and precautions on their descriptions- based off my courses anyways.

Good Luck:cheesy2:

[chuck_35550]

Some fragrance oils state they contain essential oils as part of their formula. I'm interested in anything that might contain some natural fragrance essences, no matter how small that amount might be and rarely consider toxicity. I believe you do have to be careful about any beneficial claims concerning your products.

I don't mind the debates but lately it seems like the tone gets pretty nasty at times. Just saying......

Steve

[islandgirl]

I don't mind the debates but lately it seems like the tone gets pretty nasty at times. Just saying......

Steve

I'm sorry, but your information is not accurate for this application.

Comments like that get things rolling for sure

Edited January 26, 2011 by islandgirl

[moonshine]

You are absolutely right Steve-

There is nothing worse than trying to contribute on this forum and get a lashing for it or the disrespect of trying to discredit someone...everyone has different opinions and views and I love reading all of them (its how I learn) and in this case I am sorry but I had enough and lashed back- a good debate or discussion would start along the lines of...."I believe" or "it is of my opinion" or "my knowledge and research"....you get the idea

I really am a very laid back reserved person...hate confrontation

[moonshine]

I'm sorry, but your information is not accurate for this application.

Comments like that get things rolling for sure

[chuck_35550]

IMHO is a reasonable way to make your case. We've all been in terrible arguments but usually work things out; unless you just like making trouble. Thanks for the great response Moonshine and lol Island Girl.

Steve

[CareBear]

s

I stand behind using caution with EO even though its diluted in wax

1 ounce per pound probably will not have any effect on people but if you remember the thread in the first place- the question was how much can I use???

You should exercise the same caution with FOs. EOs are not some magical thing - they are a blend of chemicals just as FOs are. With the exception that the creation and use of FOs is generally guided by IFRA.

I don't know why people think that EOs are necessarily

- safer

- more dangerous

- therapeutic

as compared to FOs.

For safety, you need to follow the rules (common sense or otherwise) for both.

[moonshine]

You should exercise the same caution with FOs. EOs are not some magical thing - they are a blend of chemicals just as FOs are. With the exception that the creation and use of FOs is generally guided by IFRA.

I don't know why people think that EOs are necessarily

- safer

- more dangerous

- therapeutic

as compared to FOs.

For safety, you need to follow the rules (common sense or otherwise) for both.

I completely agree! I am not sure which is more scarier! lol

I wish they had more regulations on EO's- they can be so toxic and alot of people think because they are pure they are perfectly safe....

common sense is a must:)

[GirlWithTheCurl]

You should exercise the same caution with FOs. EOs are not some magical thing - they are a blend of chemicals just as FOs are. With the exception that the creation and use of FOs is generally guided by IFRA.

I don't know why people think that EOs are necessarily

- safer

- more dangerous

- therapeutic

as compared to FOs.

For safety, you need to follow the rules (common sense or otherwise) for both.

IFRA publishes guidelines/restrictions for eos as well.

I completely agree! I am not sure which is more scarier! lol

I wish they had more regulations on EO's- they can be so toxic and alot of people think because they are pure they are perfectly safe....

common sense is a must:)

Good education is the key.

Good place to start:

http://www.aromamedical.com/articles/eosafety.html

Info re horses:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda-health-wellbeing/1063435-mosquito-repellent-horses.html

http://www.thelavendercat.com/3522.html

ETA: Profile...Mentha Piperita Oil (Peppermint)

http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/es1017391.html

Edited January 28, 2011 by GirlWithTheCurl
Additional info.

[Candybee]

Thank you Moonshine for your comments and input. I also love the fact that you found a way to help your sick horse and help others too through your education in EOs. Hope you stick around and offer us more of your thoughts and insight as I think we can all use it.

BTW-- would love to see a pic of your horse.:smiley2: