Ravens Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I understand that testing, testing, testing is a must, and I'm willing to do that. The problem (one of many) I'm having is this:many - if not most - experienced chandlers say that 180 degrees usually is an acceptable temp at which to add the FO. Adding the FO at a lower temp apparently does not allow for good binding.Then somewhere else I read that FO should be added just before pouring. I read this on a couple of candle-making supplies websites (as I'm not positive which one it was, I'm not going to mention any names). Then I read that with some waxes you should wait until the wax turns slushy before pouring, but if I add the scent at this point, will it bind?In addition..... sometimes I read that you should stir vigorously after adding the FO. Then I read you should add the FO, let is sit for a minute, then gently stir a few times, then pour. And I also read that you should stir constantly until the wax reaches the desired pouring temp. No wonder I have such a headache. What works best for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I use a 70/30 soy/paraffin blend wax. The majority of the time I heat the wax in a turkey fryer to 200 degrees and measure out as much wax as I need into my pour pot. I put the pour pot on a hot plate and place a temp probe into the wax to monitor the temp. I add my fo at 190 degrees and set my timer for 2 minutes. I slowly stir with a non-slotted spoon (careful not to incorporate air bubbles) until the 2 minutes is up and the wax is 185 degrees and then pour into heated and wicked containers and then box up for slow and uniform cooling. I don't color my candles but when I do I add the dye first and stir for 2 minutes and then add the fo and stir for 2 minutes. That's how I do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsmyles Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I understand where you are comming from. I have gotten different instructions for different waxes depending on where I have purchased them from. I have tried it there way and then have stuck to my way - which works for me. What I do is heat the wax up to around 175-180 degrees - take it off the heat add the colour block and fragrance and stir it slow and steady for quite a while- I think sometimes I count to 200 sometimes I just stir until the colour block is fully melted - then I let it sit until it cools until around 110 and pour ... I usually stir right before I pour as well as an fyi and stir occasionally throughout the cooling process - this seems to work well for GB 415, another wax that I used originally and 444~*Sarah*~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfcat Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Good luck on that one! With so many different waxes, fragrances, colors, climates and containers there is no one good answer. I heat my straight soy to around 180 then stir in my color, wait till the temp drops to 170, add my fragrance, stir vigourously then I pour at around 150.My parasoy is the same only I pour at about 165.That's what works best for me. I have great results that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncat Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Everything depends on:Waxscenttype of candle you are makingweather conditions/humidyinside temperatureetc etcI have no patience for that crap...I pull out of the melter at 190/200 deg., scent, color, pour...Take all of the advice, try it once, then do it your own way. Thats the only way you will be happy with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 This is what I have in my Presto pot, with thermometer stuck in the melted wax:12oz. GB464, 4oz. IGI4641, 1 level teaspoon coconut oil. I have prepared two 9oz. jars, one with an ECO 8 and the other one with a zinc 60-44-18. I heated the wax to 185 degrees, added 1.5oz FO, stirred constantly with an unslotted plastic spoon for 90 seconds (I set the timer), then turned off the heat. I am now waiting for the wax to cool to approx. 130-140 degrees, then I'll pour. Am I on the right track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Believe it or not, I think I can actually sort out the confusion.With most fragrance oils, the exact temperature of the wax doesn't matter. It just has to be hot enough that the mixture doesn't cool down more than you want it to when the FO is mixed in.With some fragrance oils, a higher temperature is necessary in order for the fragrance to mix with the wax. If you see what looks like puddles and droplets of FO at the bottom of the pot that refuse to mix, you've got one of those. They typically require temperatures higher (often significantly higher) than 180 to mix properly. This is normally only an issue with paraffin; I haven't seen an FO that does this with soy.The FO doesn't need to sit in the pot before being stirred. You can stir right away. Gentle stirring does the trick as far as mixing is concerned, although there may be other reasons to stir vigorously.There's no such thing as "binding." The wax and FO have to mix together. If they look like they're mixed, they are.The procedures with soy that involve adding the FO at low temperatures or stirring vigorously have nothing to do with mixing per se. Those procedures are about tempering the wax. Adding at a low temperature produces a high cooling rate in the temperature range where the wax is starting to crystalllize, which can affect the final result. Vigorous stirring also affects how the wax crystallizes. Whether those techniques produce a better result for you is an experimental matter. Try different methods and see what works best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Wow, you sure seem to know a lot, must have loads of experience! Can you tell me if I'm doing anything wrong, based on last post? I poured and they're setting now. Will let them cure for a few days (or should they cure longer?), then I'll get ready for another burning disappointment...... And I'll be back here crying the blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Wow, you sure seem to know a lot, must have loads of experience! Can you tell me if I'm doing anything wrong, based on last post? I poured and they're setting now. Will let them cure for a few days (or should they cure longer?), then I'll get ready for another burning disappointment...... And I'll be back here crying the blues.With soy wax, exactly how you go about pouring it can affect your results, as I described. You can try different approaches with temperature and timing and stirring and see what seems to work best for you. Since it probably won't affect your burning results a lot, you can maybe work on pouring techniques later.But as far as "right" and "wrong" is concerned, you're not doing anything wrong. However, I'd never bother setting a timer to stir FO. You can relax a little. Just stir for a minute or so and it'll be fine. It's easier than making lemonade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Ice Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Everything depends on:Waxscenttype of candle you are makingweather conditions/humidyinside temperatureetc etcI have no patience for that crap...I pull out of the melter at 190/200 deg., scent, color, pour...Take all of the advice, try it once, then do it your own way. Thats the only way you will be happy with it!I so totally agree with you, Barncat:tiptoe::wave: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hello. I'm new here and you seem to know what you're doing. I have been going crazy. I am using ecosoya cb 135 and I love the wax but I just can't get it to look nice. I use dye and fragrance and add those around 175. I know frosting is a part of soy wax but so I tried pouring at 110 and I get a pitted and ugly looking top. Also, when I burn my candles they are good until I put them out. When they resolidify they are like foamy looking (not sure what you call it). I am using an 8 oz colonial jar, a 9 oz hexagon jar and an 8 oz tureen jar. They are all different with the same results. I need all the help and advice I can get. Everytime I thnk I have it, it fails. So discouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsmyles Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hello. I'm new here and you seem to know what you're doing. I have been going crazy. I am using ecosoya cb 135 and I love the wax but I just can't get it to look nice. I use dye and fragrance and add those around 175. I know frosting is a part of soy wax but so I tried pouring at 110 and I get a pitted and ugly looking top. Also, when I burn my candles they are good until I put them out. When they resolidify they are like foamy looking (not sure what you call it). I am using an 8 oz colonial jar, a 9 oz hexagon jar and an 8 oz tureen jar. They are all different with the same results. I need all the help and advice I can get. Everytime I thnk I have it, it fails. So discouraged.Soy wax does leave ruff looking tops some of the time and you can achieve smoother tops with heat gunning the tops. Some additives can be used to achieve smoother tops USA for example.As for the molted look that you speak of after the candle is put out - this is normal as well and is too be expected from Soy Wax HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewport Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Thank you for replying so fast. I appreciate all the help and advice I can get. I will try the heat gun. Thank you again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootie04 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Everything depends on:Waxscenttype of candle you are makingweather conditions/humidyinside temperatureetc etcI have no patience for that crap...I pull out of the melter at 190/200 deg., scent, color, pour...Take all of the advice, try it once, then do it your own way. Thats the only way you will be happy with it!I agree 100%!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Soy wax does leave ruff looking tops some of the timeNot true of all soy waxes! NatureWax C3 + USA gives me smooth tops after pouring and after burning.Because there are so many different waxes and combos, you simply have to find your own style. While manufacturer's recommendations for FO load should be given some attention, the temp at which it is added can vary. Vigorous stirring isn't a great idea, but one should stir with sufficient authority to thoroughly blend the FO into the wax. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I'm curious Ravens. How well does the votive wax work with the soy container wax? Does it adhere to the jar wall or does it shrink away and how is the cold and hot throw? Is it hard to wick or does it smoke a lot? Do you use the coconut oil for throw only or does it also help other qualities of the soy? Is this a really hard wax combo. Hope you don't mind me asking.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Steve, I added the coconut oil because I read somewhere that it helps improve the throw. Went to look at my 2 candles a few minutes ago, and they both smell delicious, but I have not burned them yet. Will wait another day or so. The only negative I see so far is that there are a few very, very fine concentric lines on top. Perhaps I should have adjusted the pouring temp? But if the HT is as good as the CT, I'll be one happy clam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravens Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Forgot to add that I will post the results as soon as I'm done testing them. The tops look creamy and I see great adhesion to the jars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Kewl. Thanks for the info.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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