Working with family...

[KristinesShower]

I have actually brought this up many times before on the Dish, but never here - so I would like to know what you guys' opinions are, cause I am just at a loss anymore.

First of all, some of you may or may not know that I have a few employees - one of which is my mother in law. Yeah, I know what the heck was I thinking right? Anyways, I thought I was doing her a favor by giving her a job and she really is very passionate about making soap, so it was a good match.

Here's the story...

She has been with me through 3 moves - 2 of which she almost did by herself. She uses her home as storage area when things overflow at my house. She used to work 5 days a week - 40 hours and I used to pay her very well. I think it was right around $11.00 per hour and our minimum wage here in Illinois is 6.50 right now.

Well, when we were at home, we didn't bash heads too much because we worked almost on top of each other. We were kinda each others motivation - when we would wear out, the other would push - you know like a team.

The first place we moved to was not my idea, actually a partner I had and got rid of & was her idea. This place was huge, she had her own kitchen, I had my own office and at that time we had 3 girls working for us. 2 to make bathbombs and the other was MIL's helper and she also did the shipping. All MIL had to do was make soap, sorbet, frosting, candles on a daily basis to make sure we kept up with orders. We also had a retail spot there, so we took turns waiting on them. I had to stay in the office because I had to do all the CC processing, emails, labels (at that time I was making my own), etc.

That place was very expensive to heat/cool and I ended up having to lay off the girls I had working for me and then eventually we left to move into another more economical spot in Utica - where we are today.

In Utica, we have a retail store, a gift area and a kitchen/product making area. It is long, but nice and spacious for what we need. There is not enough room for bathbomb production yet, we are working on purchasing the apartment that is directly behind for bathbombs, shipping, and an office. We will also have another kitchen that she will make soap in as well.

When we moved over there, I made it very clear that she would be the ruler of the roost in her kitchen. I gave her free reign to make it her own and she has really made good use with the room she has. I made a nice list of what is expected of her every week along with a schedule for cleaning that is not done by her, but by a helper. Yep, she can make messes and doesn't have to clean up a one because we have someone to come in and clean up after her.

1st time I had problems with her was in the big place. We were constantly swamped and the stress level was very high from 9-4. We did alot of beat the clock with shipping orders out and everyone worked very hard. Because I spent most of my time in the office, she was alone with the helper and sometimes in with the girls when she made bathbombs.

She would speak very badly about me, say things like - I don't know why SHE can't come out here and do this. She is so lazy. She sleeps til noon & doesn't do anything around here. (GAH, I hate to even type it, it really hurts my feelings) - This was her first offense and I wrote her up for it. We had a long meeting and I was very stern with her letting her know that she cannot do things like that because she will create an uncomfortable environment as well as turn my employees against me. After the day was over I took her into my office as my MIL and told her that she personally hurt my feelings too. I didn't want to tell her that during business hours, because I am really trying to keep things separate.

2nd time she did it we were at the new place. I had just hired a new girl and it was a hectic day (like every day) and she had alot on her plate to do. I had called a couple times to get status of a few orders and apparently it had made her really upset. She started in on the insults again, this time to the new employee (she is my sister's best friend, but MIL doesn't know this...), then she went next door and vented her anger to two of the business owners in our mall. Well, our mall is small and we are all very close, so no sooner did she talk to both of them - they were on the phone to me about it!

I wrote her up again and explained the same things we went over the first time, but this time I suspended her 3 days without pay. This was devastating to her as I am her only income, but I do believe it was warranted as I told her if it happened again, she would get this suspension.

The next pay period came and she called me letting me know that her check was wrong. I had completely forgotten about the suspension, but luckily my sister hadn't. (she is the bookkeeper) I told her about the 3 day suspension on there and from the employee that was working at the time, she told me that MIL slammed the phone down and walked out slamming the door. She then went in the back to smoke & didn't come back for 20 minutes.

I have talked to her on several occasions about these things and I have also dropped her hours from 40 a week to 30 a week. She now works M, T and W - her choice - 10 hours a day. She is expected to do the list that I laid out for her every week, but has yet to even try and follow my directions.

She does the orders, but when she finds the time and that has always been my #1 priority. She seems to find other things to do instead of what she is supposed to do. Last week she spent the three days she worked cleaning and organizing her kitchen because we pulled 10 scents from our line. That is just fine and I don't have a problem with it, but 3 orders did not get done & that is what I have a problem with.

Now I KNOW what I should do here. I know I should fire her - I wish it was that easy. Little background...

MIL and her mother moved her from another state. They lost their house and were in limbo where to go next. I invited them to stay with us until they could find a place & we helped them get a house. I gave her a job so she didn't have to find one - heck I needed the help and it was nice to have her around. Not only would she work for me, but DH's gramma would clean our house, help with meals and do errands for me.

I decided to make her a full time employee because I could afford it and for the last 2 years I have been both of their sole source of income.

What can I do to make this work? I have done everything I can think of - shortened her hours, made lists, I make her call me 4 times a day with progress reports, all the calls for the business get forwarded to my house so she doesn't have to be bothered with calls, I now talk to all my wholesale customers personally (she used to help here too since she makes over 75% of our products)...

I am open to any suggestions at all - since the drop down to 3 days a week, she does have another job, however I had to work around it instead of it working around me. Something I wasn't too happy about, but dealt with.

[RobinInOR]

I've followed your MIL exploits, I really feel for you.

Now I KNOW what I should do here. I know I should fire her - I wish it was that easy. Little background...

I don't think there's much else you can do. As long as you are taking the responsibility on of helping her out of a situation, you've tied your own hands. She's put you into the position of really having to make the choice - strict business, mixed business/personal life. Mixed is nice when it works, but when it doesn't...

I've been there as a manager. I had to fire someone that I knew was down on their luck, I was making their life extremely hard. But I had no choice for the good of my department.

No suggestions on how to make it work, but huggs all the same.

[Lorrie]

Can any one else make the products? If so....

I would slowly start cutting her hours. If she isn't doing what you are paying her to do than that is not good. Plus if she isn't getting the work done to fill orders well, you could loose business. And you don't want that.

If she asks why you are cutting her hours, tell her that you needed to put someone in there that was going to get the job done. It may sound harsh but working with family just plan sucks.~~

If no one else can do make the products. Can't really help you there except for start getting someone to learn how to do it.

[dragontears]

wow thats hard to say i am not any where near as big as you i am small time here.but my sister in law wanted to go into business with each other and you are making me think twice about this. i hope someone can give u some good advice all i can say is do what u feel is right

[MommaD]

Oh man. What a situation to be in. You always expect that when family works with you, everything will go ducky. I know that I could never work with 99 percent of mine or hubby's family, simply because of this reason. I think that you may have to fire her. I guess you have to weigh the benefits of her being around to the detriments. Maybe you could say that you are putting her on probation. 2 weeks, whatever. If at that time, she does not do, a,b,c, whatever, then she will be fired, no questions asked.

Hugs to you on this.

[Lorrie]

wow thats hard to say i am not any where near as big as you i am small time here.but my sister in law wanted to go into business with each other and you are making me think twice about this. i hope someone can give u some good advice all i can say is do what u feel is right

I would definitly do some serious thinking about this. I am building my business from the ground up and I do not have any partners. I make all the decisions and I also am the one doing all the work. I don't have to worry about what someone else thinks and I also don't have to worry about them ever leaving.

[daniedb]

Ack. I don't envy you a bit.

Okay, here are some thoughts I have:

Obviously, the easiest way to make a decision would be to try to look at it as if the employee were not related to you. What would you do? Would you give her a few more chances? It is obvious that she is not just a MIL, she also has been a valuable part of your team. I wouldn't blame you for hesitating on the firing even if she's not related to you, given how she's performed in the past with her talents.

It's also obvious that the more freedom you give her to make her own decisions, and the more leeway you allow, the more advantage she's taking. My husband says that the same thing used to happen all the time to him in the corporate world - the customers that you didn't give a thing to were polite and nice, and the ones you gave breaks to were the ones that complained the most. It's human nature, I think.

Here's my suggestion: I think you need to tighten that ol' leash right back up. She hasn't earned the right to change her hours, or have more freedom in the kitchen, and if she ever did earn it, she's certainly lost it after these stunts she's pulled. Think of it as if she were a teenager - if she breaks the rules, she gets those privileges revoked. I would tighten that schedule right back up, pull any freedom she has. Before you make the changes, I would sit down with her and be perfectly honest. Tell her why you're doing what you're doing, that you are trying to avoid firing her, and this is your only option right now. As you have in the past, clearly spell out the consequences of violating these requirements. You may even decide that one more strike and she's out, that would be fair and natural.

Those are my thoughts - I hope that this works out to your benefit.

[Crying Moon]

It sounds like your MIL is feeling like she is just working FOR you rather than WITH you. There is nothing wrong with the concept, but she is a memeber of the family and probably wants to feel like more of a part of your growing business. Her lack of motivation and moral may be a result of feeling like just another employee. This is a complete 180, and it's just an idea. Would maybe a little incentive help get her back on track? For instance...I am a manager at a family entertainment center. We offer birthday parties to kids. My boss offered the managers x amount of money, a bonus, if we did a certain percentage better this November as opposed to last November. Since we know a bonus is on the line, we work extra hard on getting those parties in, and doing a great job to make sure that they want to come back next year. He makes more money, and as a result, WE make more money. Everybody's happy. We do this month to month. So every month there is a chance of making a bonus. If we don't hit it, no bonus. It makes us feel like more of a team rather than just another employee working an hourly wage. I don't know if something like this would work for your situation, but it may be something to think about.

[Freezin]

Well I am wondering if you can really afford to fire her. Is there someone that would be able to take her position and know what she does enough to meet your demands. It sounds like your MIL makes quality products and has the knowledge. That could be hard to replace at short notice during the holiday seasons. Even though you want to treat her like just another employee, I don't see how you can, she is your MIL and you are more than employee/employer. Yep, you did her a favor, yep she has treated you with disrespect. However, she sounds frustrated and everybody needs to vent. I am sure many of us have gone home to husbands, friends and said unkind things about our employers even when we like them, when we have had a hard day. It is a tough situation and you have been firm with her, but there are two sides of this, and I would really consider how much she has done for you too. I mean you said that she moved you almost by herself twice. That was hard work. Sorry you going through this....what a tough thing to go through. Good Luck

[cindym]

Jenny, first let me say wow. Second let me say I also have been a manager and what I always remembered was I had to do what was best for the company I was running the store for. I fired people that I truly liked and loved over this issue. I had 30 people working for me and never asked anyone to do anything that I wouldn't do. It was a very fast paced envirornment, so really there was not time for backstabbing. The customer is what drives your business and if orders are not going out, and production is slowed down you are in a heap of trouble. On the personal side, I would lay it all out. How it hurts, how you miss the old relationship, what is it that made her become this way. Clear the air. It is so hard in business because you have to worry about 2 things. I had a customer that was buying about 100 to 120 bars of soap from me every 2 or 3 mons., I put up with so much crap from her, she had a 30 day account, well invoices got later and later, she owed me 1800 some odd dollars. I was getting ready to take her to court and finally received the check. She emailed me today and wanted more soap, I was so tempted, I emailed her back and told her cash, COD. Of course she did not go along with that. I guess what I am trying to say is take a shot, talk to her, see what it is that is bugging her, it may not solve the problem but at least when and if you fire her it will all be in the open. Let us know how you make out. Good Luck

[prairieannie]

Wow, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. Looking at this from a different perspective here...along the same lines as Freezin was. I'm not sure how much of your business is soap, but judging from your website and the information you've given us here, I would say you NEED her as much as she NEEDS you. While I agree, it sucks to have any employee disrespect you in front of other employees, it's gonna happen, especially when you are the business owner, and probably not a single one of your employees understands what happens behind the door of that office you spend so much time in. It probably DOES appear that you are lazy to the folks who are out on the floor busting their butts to meet YOUR deadlines, and that is how they will see it, regardless of what you do or tell them unless they are somehow made to feel that the business is in some small way their business too. My best guess here, is that your mother in law is feeling under appreciated for whatever reason, and her behavior is reflecting that. It sucks when you realize that in order to make certain employer/employee relationships work well you have to do a certain amount of nurturing that, and even sometimes a little bit of butt kissing. I know there are folks who will say "Forget that, I pay them well, I'm not kissing butt too" Anyway...maybe I'm way off base here, and I'm not trying to take MIL's side here at all, just affording you another perspective, and maybe some ideas will come from looking at it another way.

Good Luck to you.. I know it's just a crappy situation all the way around.

[Grumpy Girl]

It sounds to me like your MIL hasn't been able to do what you have, that is to separate business and family and she is obviously taking it personally. Some people can't make the separation. I definitely see resentment from her based on what you said. Maybe she feels she should be an equal partner for the work that she does and maybe that would be an option for you, I don't know. Another thing I'd be worried a little about is competition in the area, and your recipes if you choose to let her go. Me, I just don't trust anyone.

I'm not sure of the laws in your state, but in some states you can't cut hours without proper documentation, nor can you separate employment without it. Then again, some states are Right To Work states, and paperwork isn't an issue. It sounds to me like you have that in order already, but check. Depending on the laws in your state, it's a possibility she could sue you or try for unemployment benefits if you chose that route.

[StacysScentsations(DH)]

I may not be the most business savvy here but I knowworking with family stinks. It sounds to me that MIL and you were a team when your business began growing and now she feels abandoned. The solution might be to get some extra fill in help for MIL and bring her in the back with you for a few days to "Train" her on that aspect of the business. If she is older she will hate it. More importantly it will let her walk a mile in your shoes and show her you are not behind a closed door sleeping but actually working in your office as she is working in the kitchen. I remember when I was small my father had a partner in the building industry, the partner did your job and my father ran the jobs. We all used to say you give him half the money and you do all the work. However my father never felt that way, little did we know then that the partner dealt with customers, suppliers, lawyers, accountants, city hall, insurance co, bidding jobs etc. And our phone never rang all night his did etc. Now that we are older we understand that. I would let her see that even though your business grew you didnt outgrow working and leave her behind.

[Sarah]

yikes.

well, first i would be as clear and to the point as possible. let her know what you think about her behavior as an employee, also letting her know how valuable she *can* be when she tries. let her know that this is *your* business and if need be, someone else can be trained to take over her position if it is too much for her.

chances are you've had that talk already. in which case, sit down with her, let her know she is on her last chance. tell her you will have to let her go if any of this continues. and maybe if it comes to firing her, you can let her know that you will keep her on part time (because she is family and you care about her) for a certain amount of time (2-3 weeks) so she has a chance to find a different job.

[KristinesShower]

She doesn't come back to work until Monday, so I have the whole weekend to decide what I am going to do.

I know that she feels abandoned, but I don't want her to be my partner - you know what I mean? It is my business, my formulas, my creations, I just want her to make the stuff. I pay her an outrageous wage for what she does. She makes as much as my DH and my DH works 50 hours a week on a machine.

I am going to tell her all this on Monday for sure. My sisters work for me too and they don't have this problem. I just feel like she doesn't have her own identity and she is trying to latch onto mine.

The other day a news reporter called to do a story on our business and she took the call. SHE TOOK THE CALL! That makes me very mad because I don't think she should have done that, but what can I say? If one of the employees had taken that call I would have been pissed, but the other employees wouldn't do stuff like that.

I don't know, it feels very good to come on here and talk about it though so don't be surprised if I talk about it all weekend lol

[KristinesShower]

Sigh - I couldn't do anything on Monday because I didn't have enough courage, but today the courage was in full force!!

I think it is because I had a crappy day, but I was able to get my point across today without being mean. Not sure if I did much, but I did let her know that it was my business & she was not allowed to make any decisions.

I was very adamant about her making her calls when she is supposed to and to call me anytime she had any little questions about anything. Promised I wouldn't get mad if she had a problem & I really tried to be a nice person about the whole thing. I really am trying to use a soothing voice, but firm -MIL is just one of those people who take everything personally instead of constructively, so I guess we will go from here.

I am crossing my fingers that she will understand my point, because not only do I love having her as an employee (because she knows alot about the craft), but I really like her good points too. She is a neat freak and all the inventory and goods are always organized perfectly. Everything is in its place and you never have to look for a thing. She is awesome at inventory and when we need something she tells me way ahead of schedule so I'm not surprised when we run out.

I told her all this, so we will see where we go from here. Nothing would make me happier than to have her work for me full time again, but until things really iron out I don't see it happening right now. That doesn't mean it won't be like that again though. I just hope that I did the right thing.

[Scent Cellar]

I am sure you did the right thing and were professional about it. What were her reactions? Did she take it OK and see it from your viewpoint?

[daniedb]

Good for you. I'm really impressed that you have the guts to talk to her - I'd be quaking in my boots. I'm so bad at that aspect of business, but I better start growing a thicker skin if I want to continue my success, no? Glad to hear that you're making some proactive decisions for you and the business!

[KristinesShower]

I just wanted to update you guys on this situation.

It has been 3 months and I have to say that I am impressed with the way MIL has been acting. I got a new computer for over at the shop and taught her how to do some of the things I normally do. I think she really got a feel for what I do on the computer and has much more respect for me now. I haven't had any power struggles with her and she has really stepped up production.

We recently landed a pretty big account that I made her a part of. She was at all the meetings, made some decisions and came with me to the account's store front. Also, she has made some suggestions lately about some of the things going on in the shop that I have taken to heart and acted on.

I think she really feels alot better about her job and I feel so much better about our relationship!!

[Spellkast]

Oh thank god!! I was thinking about this the other day when you posted about the auction on ebay...I was hoping the good cause it was going to wasn't "my MIL's hip replacement because I beat her other one to pieces!" I'm glad things have worked out for you and CONGRATS ON THE BIG ACCOUNT!!!