Problem with scents

[SixThreeFive]

I went about scenting my first ever CP batch. Some turned out okay, but a lot of them lost the scent within just a day or two.

Each soapbar (I scented them indivicually during rebatching) weighed about 75g, and I added about 6-10 drops of EO to each soapbar. 10 drops makes 1ml.

The soap was made of canola, corn, grapeseed and coconut oils... I'm really confused as to what happened?

The oils I used were:

* Christmas-scented EO (and I dyed the soap with cinnamon)

* Home-made gingerbread oil (this worked well, I dyed the soap with cinnamon as well)

* Peppermint oil (I used so much peppermint oil, it made me cough, for a laundrybar - three days later, it now smells nothing what so ever)

* Orange oil (scent disappeared)

* Orange oil and vanilla extract (Scent disappeared)

* Chocolatemint (I used cocoa to dye and scent, and then a few drops of peppermint oil - turned out great!)

* Tuttifrutti oil (turned out okay)

Can anyone guess at what the heck could've happened? Could it be because I added the EO to a little canola oil that I'd melted wax crayons in (for dying)?

I'm about to start scenting my OO-batch (80% OO, 10% coconut oil, 10% canola oil), and I don't want the scents to disappear again.

[tootie04]

I dont know too much....but I know the citrus EO's dont stay without an anchor scent.

I always just scent my batch and I dont rebatch.

tootie

[tootie04]

Just saw this is your FIRST CP soap....why did you rebatch???

[IndulgentCreations]

I went about scenting my first ever CP batch. Some turned out okay, but a lot of them lost the scent within just a day or two.

Each soapbar (I scented them indivicually during rebatching) weighed about 75g, and I added about 6-10 drops of EO to each soapbar. 10 drops makes 1ml.

The soap was made of canola, corn, grapeseed and coconut oils... I'm really confused as to what happened?

The oils I used were:

* Christmas-scented EO (and I dyed the soap with cinnamon)

* Home-made gingerbread oil (this worked well, I dyed the soap with cinnamon as well)

* Peppermint oil (I used so much peppermint oil, it made me cough, for a laundrybar - three days later, it now smells nothing what so ever)

* Orange oil (scent disappeared)

* Orange oil and vanilla extract (Scent disappeared)

* Chocolatemint (I used cocoa to dye and scent, and then a few drops of peppermint oil - turned out great!)

* Tuttifrutti oil (turned out okay)

Can anyone guess at what the heck could've happened? Could it be because I added the EO to a little canola oil that I'd melted wax crayons in (for dying)?

I'm about to start scenting my OO-batch (80% OO, 10% coconut oil, 10% canola oil), and I don't want the scents to disappear again.

OK. Here's my best guess with the info you gave. Where are you getting your scents/EO's? Are they from a reputable company or oils from Michaels/Hobby Lobby type place? I've never had a problem with EO's sticking other than the orange (any citrus) that you mentioned. I'd look there 1st. As for orange, the only way to get them to stick is to use an anchor EO like patchouli, etc. I make a patchouli/orange and it's fab. Vanilla extract I wouldn't recommend. Too much alcohol. As for your peppermint fading...once again look at your oil source. Your mints are the strongest...should not fade. As for crayons for colorant, there's a ton of info online from Crayola explaining that crayons are not skin safe for B&B use. You can find so many herbs and spices that are skin safe without using crayons. Other than that, watch your temps. If you are CPOP or working at too high of temps you can cause your scent to "burn off". Hope this helps and have fun with the addiction.

[CareBear]

and typically 20 drops = 1 ml. you didn't use enough. and depending n where you get them they were probably no more than a 10% solution to begin with. We typically use 3-6% of the straight stuff per pound of oils in soaping.

and please - don't color your soaps with crayons. I don't have the energy for climbing on a soap box right now - just don't. (besides, they STINK)

[SixThreeFive]

Thank you all for your help.

I rebatched, because... I'm poor and it uses less EO. Also, the soap turned out slightly lye heavy, so I had to add more oil. And, as I said, I was making several different scents for Christmas gifts.

When measuring for my chocolatemints (candy), the recipe said to use "1/4th of a teaspoon", and since I don't have a teaspoon measurement atm, I measured in my spicemeasure, which is 1ml. Thinking it'd be a good thing to count the drops, I did so, and ended up with 10 drops in 1ml.

My EOs are good quality, they're from Aroma. I don't know if they sell stuff in the US, or if you know the brand, but they're commonly known to be good quatlity, at least here in Sweden.

Ahh... but they're simple wax crayons (i.e. wax + colourant), does that make a differance? They smell nothing and are child-safe (for eating the crayons). I did buy some soapdye for the next batch, but now I read that those dyes are for glycerinbased soaps, though it said nothing whatsoever about the effect of them in vegetable oil soap.

I was thinking of making apple-scented soap next, with soapscentoil that I bought from Panduro. The OO soap is ready to be rebatched, and mother and littlesister are still waiting for the x-mas presents. Do I need an anchor? What oils work as anchors?

Next time I'm making soap, I thought I'd try add EOs at heavy trace, to see what effect that will have.

[IndulgentCreations]

Here's an article on anchoring EO's. http://www.pallasathenesoap.com/articles/EssenOil.pdf

[SixThreeFive]

Thanks!

That'll help some. I've no idea how to get a hold of some of these things, or what they are called in Sweden, but I'll figure it out. I usually do.

I did find some pomace-grade olive oil in the "turk-shop" down the street. What's the lye calc for that oil? I've heard it's lower than for regular olive oil.

Also, does anyone have an article on what kind of oils give what kind of soap and combinations of oils?

Cheers

Sanna

[IndulgentCreations]

If you use soap calc, it will tell you all of that. Spend some time getting familiar with it, it'll be your best soapy friend. Olive pomace is different but that's what I use all the time.

http://www.soapcalc.com/

[SixThreeFive]

Thanks, that calc is awesome!

On another note: What do you use to stirr the soap with? I've been using a Bosch MUM46R1, which works great. It also allows me to ocationally leave the room, while it's working away. Now I'm considering getting a Bosch MSM6700, because the steel parts speak to me.

What do you think?

[Carrie]

I use a whisk or an immersion blender (google immersion blender or stick blender) With my recipe, I get to trace within a couple minutes. Not enough time to walk out of the room.

I don't rebatch, are you making soap and then rebatching it?

[SixThreeFive]

I'm considering a stick blender (the Bosch one), because it takes me an hour or two to reach trace, and I usually have to heat the soap twice or thrice. I've also ended up having to add more lye (5% more lye) to get to trace at all... Not 'sactly what I'd like to be doing.

So, is a stick blender of 600W, a good buy? I trust Bosch, and I like that the blending parts can be removed and washed seperately from the motor. That they're metal also helps. How big batches can you make with a stick blender?

Yep. I make it, cure it for four-six weeks and then rebatch parts of it, to scent and dye. Next time, I'm trying the ziplock-method for rebatching.

I'm looking at soap-calc and realizing that it'll be hard for me to make hard bars of soap. The highest Hardness value I've gotten is 42, and I usually end up between 28-34. It's probably because coconut fat is the only solid fat I can get a hold of. Darn it all. How hard is a soap around 40?

The OO soap I mentioned earlier is a 26 and it's almost soft enough to knead after it's been in the shower for a while. It's also prone to sweating, since the bathroom is damp a lot. When dry, it's the consistancy of Edam cheese.

I can't wait for monday! I get money on monday, and my scale's out of batteries, so I need money to buy batteries. I've also noticed the lye I've been using isn't 100% lye, though thankfully there's no metal in it, but I need new lye. It's probably why it's taken me hours to get to trace.

Btw, how picky is it? My scale measures down to every two grams, but when I get an odd lye number, like 149 grams, I have to choose an even one to be able to measure it.

[Carrie]

Round up on your gram scale.

Get 100% Lye.

Read millersoap.com at least 3 times before soaping again.

[Jeana]

Wow, it sounds like you you really need to read more about soapmaking and safety before you make more soap. Especially before you let other people use it.

It is not a good idea "to add more lye to make it trace". And using lye that is not 100% is really not a good idea.

A hardness value of 42 should be fine to make a hard bar. But don't forget that using too much coconut oil will be overly cleansing and drying to your skin. You should be able to find some other cheaper oils that are hard like shortening or lard. If you can afford to buy on the internet palm and palm kernel are very good hard oils to add.

If you get your lye and oil recipe right you won't spend an hour on getting trace. And you will save money on buying a new stick blender.

There are so many other fun (and cheap) things to color with, like cocoa powder and other spices. Crayons really aren't the way to go for coloring.

Good luck!

[SixThreeFive]

I've read crazy-lots about soaping. Frankly, I didn't even know that what they were selling me wasn't 100% lye, I'd no idea it came in different strengths. The extra lye-idea was from a Swedish site that I checked for troubleshooting, I was rather uneasy about it. Thankfully, I've only made one batch with extra lye, the other batch worked anyway.

I've been using the OO soap for a week or so, and it's perfectly fine. No rash, no nothing. Actually, it's far less harsh on my skin than most SLS-soaps.

Yeah, I read that coconut oil has that effect. The problem here is that in Sweden we have no lard and no shortening. Those things just don't exsist. Palm oil or palm kernel oil are impossible to get a hold of.

How large batches can you get with a 600W stick blender?

I've read millersoap several times. I guess I'll just read it again, huh?

What can I use to dye with? I have cocoapowder and cinnamon at home, but I'm not allowed to bring home spices other than black and white pepper, and salt and sugar. That decidedly limits me. We use no spices whatsoever in cooking, so.... yeah....

[Darbla]

Anne Watson has a page on stick blender reviews on her site:

http://www.annelwatson.com/soapmaking/

I'm thinking about getting her 'Smart Soapmaking' book.

Also if it's any help, there is a forum at the Scent Review Board that is all about FOs that don't fade:

http://soapscentreview.obisoap.ca/viewforum.php?f=266

But if you're not a member there you be able to open that page.

[SixThreeFive]

Hey, guys!

I made more soap today. No, really, I did. First, I biked around like a maniac, finding 100% sodium hydroxide. Then I covered the kitchen in newspapers and fixed all the safety-stuff, measured my oils, measured my water, measured my lye. And... unpacked my new staff blender! It's amazing! A philips 600W, and it took me an amazing 5 minutes to reach hard trace. Wow. I'm in love and I'm never breaking up with it!

This time, I ran my recipe through SoapCalc. It turned out that what I was looking to make, was only hardness 33. That's okay, since the only solid fats I can get a hold of are coconut and lard, of which I only had coconut at home. I'd no idea stores actually sold lard here, it's the first time ever I've seen it.

So I made:

70% olive

28% coconut, 76

2% canola

It turned out quite the large batch, I think... 5 pounds, if I've converted correctly. 2600g of oils.

Now I've only got two more questions: With that high an OO %, it should cure until midsummer, right? What can I use to make green swirls?

I'm making some soap with canola and corn, for a friend who's allergic against olives, tomorrow. This is so much fun, I wonder when we're going to have time to use all the soap... ahem. So far, I'm staying scent free until I've got the cold-process down pat.

:yay:You've been great help, thank you all so much!

[CareBear]

good for you!

and you needn't wait for the cure to rebatch - in fact it'll go more smoothly with the soap nice and fresh.

The canola/corn soap may go rancid quickly. Keep your eye open for orange spots (DOS = Dreaded Orange Spots) which are the rancidity.

[SixThreeFive]

Really? I did hear something like that. Someone else said, btw, that if you rebatch it with the oven method, it'll take care of the curing time as well. Is that true?

Ouch, that's not too good. The problem is, the friend's vegan, so I can't use lard. She's also allergic against OO, so I can't use it. I can't get a hold of palm or palm kernel oil. What can I use to make some soap for her?

[MikeInPdx]

Really? I did hear something like that. Someone else said, btw, that if you rebatch it with the oven method, it'll take care of the curing time as well. Is that true?

Ouch, that's not too good. The problem is, the friend's vegan, so I can't use lard. She's also allergic against OO, so I can't use it. I can't get a hold of palm or palm kernel oil. What can I use to make some soap for her?

Look over in the health foods stores at their vegetable shortenings.....many of the organic brands are palm oil.

You can also use the trans fat style vegetable shortening. I use the Kroger/Fred Meyer type, although the Supervalu/Albertsons/SaveALot is the same thing. Hard bar with soybean and cottonseed oil. It doesn't last as long as lard or palm, but I haven't had DOS problems with it.

[SixThreeFive]

Thanks, Mike. I'm having difficulties understanding what exactly shortening is. We use a lot of margarin here in Sweden, but it's made of canola oil. Frankly, I'd never heard of palm oil until a year or so ago, when I heard about how bad it's supposed to be for you and the environment.

I'm happy to report, btw, that though the hardness is only 32 on the new batch of soap, it's all ready hard and nice. My Husband suggested i soften the edges, because they're really sharp. I'm so happy I got the link to Soap Calc!

Trying to plan a new batch, but I think variation in oil content is going to be rather tough. I can get OO, canola, coconut and flax seed easily enough, but castor (darn, it's expencive! Comes out at $30 a litre!) and other oils are tough. I did find hemp, pumpkinseed, avocado and grapeseed in one store.... and pomace at another. I need to check out our arabic-stores for odd oils as well.

Considering making a pure coconut oil soap for dishes and laundry... that ought to work, right? Since coconut is so cleansing.

[Lifelace]

Shortening is basically a solid cooking/baking oil. It's used instead of margarine when baking cookies etc....it's commonly called Crisco, you'll find it with the liquid oils in the grocery market (or possibly the baking/flour section), not in the margarine/butter section which is refrigerated where over here. Shortening usually comes in small boxes or round tubs.

Melany

[MikeInPdx]

Sorry.....sometimes I forget that the soapers here are worldwide and that all ingredients aren't available outside the US and Canada.

Hmmmmmm.....palm oil isn't necessarily bad for the environment....you can get palm oil from sustainable sources too....just don't know how you're going to get it there.

Regarding rancidity.....can you get hold of some ROE? It's basically a rosemary oleoresin extract, and it will extend the shelf life of soaps when used at .1% to .5% PPO. It keeps the oils from oxidizing and going rancid.

[Scented]

See if you can find some Rice Bran Oil. You can use this as an Olive Oil substitute. I'd think if you found grapeseed and pumpkinseed, even avocado in your stores that you ought to be able to find the RBO.

[SixThreeFive]

Melany: Oh dear. Well, in that case we have nothing like shortening in Sweden. We've got margarines and no-milk butters, but... nothing like shortening.

I've heard some people use margarine as shortening, though. But I'm not sure what the SAP is.

Mike: Aw, it's all right. We're odd people, over here on the other side of the globe.

I was considering using E-vitamine, since I heard that'll do the same as ROE.

Scented: I'll take a look! I don't think I've seen it, but I might've missed it. Actually, come to think of it, there's a black kind of bottle that may say "Risolja" on it, that I vaguely recall. Now to remember what store I was at!

I did find solid palm oil online, but they take really obscene prices, with my budget. 5 litres (a gallon and a quart?) ends up at... $50 including shipping. Rice bran oil from the same people at the same, for a quart. Rice bran wax for $70... I wanna be rich, dammit. *pouts*

Thank you all for your help!