topofmurrayhill Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 To help finalize how I want to wick my 3" mottled pillars, I decided to do some comparative burn testing.I'm planning one line using flat topped aluminum molds and another using concave, so I'm testing both. There was a recent thread where I expressed the impression that these burned differently at the outset, so I plan to post some apples-to-apples burn rate data so we can confirm if that's true.In the front row are concave topped candles with three different wick sizes. Flat topped candles with the same three sizes in the back. I'll post information as the test progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzie Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 That'll be interesting to see. BTW I like your mottles - very nice looking candles. Speaking of test burns, how important is it to you when burning votives that there is hang up on the side initially which later disappears if the flame is better than a different wick with no hang up at all but a not-so-nice (but still perfectly ok flame)? Jeez, I hope you understand my question - I just reread it and am not sure that I do even though I wrote it (probably scrambled my neurons trying to walk like an Egyptian) - tee hee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Given those two choices I suppose I'd go for the nicer flame and longer burn. I know it's sometimes hard to decide these things (which is one reason I'm sinking so much time and wax into this test, LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I'll be very interested to see how your candles burn, as I had posed the recent question about concave vs. flat. Just FYI, I concluded that I do have to wick up on my concave candles. Of course I wasn't smart enough to document my findings with pics. :embarasseKateP.S. - those candles are beautiful, love the color! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Wow.I honestly thought it would take multiple test burns and collecting data to illustrate the difference between the molds. I didn't expect to be posting another photo so soon.But here you see the candles have bee burning for one hour and the results are visually dramatic. The bigger wicks are on the left. The flat tops are in the back. In the first burn the difference looks like one wick size at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttasw13 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 These candles are great looking Hopefully one day I can make candles half as well as you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Love the color and mottle. How long are you going to burn them? I would like to see them hourly..... there certainly is a big difference so far......Donita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I need to do some more testing......I really didn't realize how much difference there is between the concave and the flat top.....I have a concave and a flat top cooling right now.....Donita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Love the color and mottle. How long are you going to burn them? I would like to see them hourly..... there certainly is a big difference so far......DonitaThis is a very old thread, so those candles are long gone. I have an hourly example from those Bamboo candles in the gallery that I'll post in a moment. The biggest difference of course is in the initial burns. Later they even out if the burns are on the longer side. Since the candles get a different start in life, it could make a big difference for the life of the candle depending on the user's burning habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bamboo Mottles - 1 Hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bamboo Mottles - 2 Hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bamboo Mottles - 3 Hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bamboo Mottles - 4 Hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaritamama Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 WOW!!! I would actually have thought it to be the other way round. That the concave would burn better! Just goes to show. As usual, thanks for the very useful info..........Question though - is the flame for the flat not too big, and would that require wicking down when using a flat mold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 WOW!!! I would actually have thought it to be the other way round. That the concave would burn better! Just goes to show. As usual, thanks for the very useful info..........Question though - is the flame for the flat not too big, and would that require wicking down when using a flat mold?Any time you have wax above the level of the wick, it will put a damper on the burn. That's why tunneling candles can drown out.Which is better is an open question though. The flat top gets off to a stronger start, but once they even out the "normal" burn is kind of in between the two.As it turned out, these candles are underwicked by about 1 size. The one on the right is only has that size flame because of the flat top, but after a few burns it was too small. It actually should be that size after 4 hours. Largish flames after 4 hours of burning a 3 inch pillar are a fact of life. By that time they need a trim for sure. I just try to fine tune it so they aren't flickering and sooting.I tested an Illuminations mottle and found that they wick them much more aggressively than I do. They can get the big flame after only 3 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcroome2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Top, all I can say is you make beautiful candles :-) Christina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaritamama Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Any time you have wax above the level of the wick, it will put a damper on the burn. That's why tunneling candles can drown out.Which is better is an open question though. The flat top gets off to a stronger start, but once they even out the "normal" burn is kind of in between the two.As it turned out, these candles are underwicked by about 1 size. The one on the right is only has that size flame because of the flat top, but after a few burns it was too small. It actually should be that size after 4 hours. Largish flames after 4 hours of burning a 3 inch pillar are a fact of life. By that time they need a trim for sure. I just try to fine tune it so they aren't flickering and sooting.I tested an Illuminations mottle and found that they wick them much more aggressively than I do. They can get the big flame after only 3 hours.Phew!!!! This candlemaking stuff is just so complicated...... It seems that no sooner have I started to feel that I'm getting it right, I learn something new that tells me to go back to the drawing board.My candles tend to look similar to #2, but tends to tunnel down leaving about a 1/4 inch all round. It eventually burns the shell, but it takes time. I would love the candle to just consume itself as it burns, but I've still not got that to happen. I did try to go up in wick size from a 30 flat to 36 flat, but that just caused a humongous bulge, which eventually blew out. Where to go from here is lost on me....Thanks again for the very useful "science" that you post for us novices. It makes the learning process a lot easier to understand when you can "see" the process in action. :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 My candles tend to look similar to #2, but tends to tunnel down leaving about a 1/4 inch all round. It eventually burns the shell, but it takes time. I would love the candle to just consume itself as it burns, but I've still not got that to happen. I did try to go up in wick size from a 30 flat to 36 flat, but that just caused a humongous bulge, which eventually blew out. Where to go from here is lost on me....There are two things you could do. 1343/1274 can burn well with polymer additives or a lot of stearic, but they're a problem for mottles because they seem to soften so much before they melt and there ain't much you can do to harden them up. They don't really act much like the narrow cuts we speculate they are. Candlescience will be getting various new waxes you could try, or order 4045H from Candlewic. Another thing is that different wicks have different burning characteristics. You could experiment with other types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam W Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I've been using 30 ply in my 1343 & Peaks 140 and they do ok but I thought I'd try something different ( actually -- want to use up some of those sample wicks lying around gathering dust)Made two identical flat tops w/LX 30. They burn ok but have a wall of almost 1/2" which catches up but it takes a long time. So I swapped out one of the LX30s for a HTP 1212. The HTP is definately doing better but will see how the two compare after a couple more burns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaritamama Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 There are two things you could do. 1343/1274 can burn well with polymer additives or a lot of stearic, but they're a problem for mottles because they seem to soften so much before they melt and there ain't much you can do to harden them up. They don't really act much like the narrow cuts we speculate they are. Candlescience will be getting various new waxes you could try, or order 4045H from Candlewic. Another thing is that different wicks have different burning characteristics. You could experiment with other types.Thank you, I'll probably order some more wicks types and get back to my experimenting! I was getting really frustrated with the 1274, so I bought some 1343 and made some candles today. I'll be very interested to see how they turn out, and how they'll burn.:smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I have to get the pics together, but I did a four hour burn test today with flat and concave top......eventually the flat top looked better....I am still not convinced as these were my reject mottle candles and the FO is a cheap oily one....so the experiment goes on and on and on and on and on.....etc. etc....LOL.....that is what candlemaking is all about....science....Donita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 Thank you, I'll probably order some more wicks types and get back to my experimenting! I was getting really frustrated with the 1274, so I bought some 1343 and made some candles today. I'll be very interested to see how they turn out, and how they'll burn.:smiley2:I wouldn't expect much difference. 1343 doesn't mottle quite as much, but otherwise those waxes are virtually identical. I suspect they come from the same stock that simply gets sorted out into 1274, 1343a, and 1343n depending on variations in mottling ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaritamama Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I wouldn't expect much difference. 1343 doesn't mottle quite as much, but otherwise those waxes are virtually identical. I suspect they come from the same stock that simply gets sorted out into 1274, 1343a, and 1343n depending on variations in mottling ability.What's the difference between 1343a and 1343n? And how do you know which one you've got????I unmolded my first 1343's and I nearly fell to the floor - more mottle than I've ever seen in my life........ In fact too much mottle...... and the FO was seeping up the sides of the mold. And I only used 1oz of FO?!?!?!? I suppose I could cut back, but then how would the scent throw??? Jeez, I think I'm getting a headache Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 What's the difference between 1343a and 1343n? And how do you know which one you've got????I unmolded my first 1343's and I nearly fell to the floor - more mottle than I've ever seen in my life........ In fact too much mottle...... and the FO was seeping up the sides of the mold. And I only used 1oz of FO?!?!?!? I suppose I could cut back, but then how would the scent throw??? Jeez, I think I'm getting a headache 1343a is the one that mottles. I think you've probably got that one, LOL. They probably used to be one wax, but so many people use it for mottles that there's a version guaranteed for that.6% is a big load for this wax or 1274. You can use less FO or more stearic. Use good FO and you can get great throw with less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Here are the pics I took yesterday of my four hour burn. The one on the left is the flat top one on the right concave. I am posting 5 pictures. Donita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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