I think I am being scammed...

[justrightcandles]

This company called me saying they represented one of the local schools around here and wanted me in their sport calender. So i said sure at first but then she tells me its $200 for the ad...and i said well why don't you send me something first. So she sends me a bill for $200. I look up their website and they only have a phone number, no info on who they are, just that they have been in business for 8 years blah blah blah, not even an email address. I called the number that was on my cell phone but no anwering machine or anything. So i ignored it. I look back now and see that should have not ignored it. But now they send me this calender with some picture they took from my website, my PERSONAL cell phone number, and my website, (and the city is spelled wrong too) with another bill for $200. I wrote cancel on it and scanned it and emailed it back to them telling them they did not have permsission to use my pictures.

Then someone called me and said they got my email unfortunatly on this date you said yes over the phone and the ad had already been printed so you are being advertised....please call with any questions.

WTF? Do i have to pay? I did not sign anything saying i wanted to advertise with them. They did a crappy job too, i called the school to see if that is who they use for their calender but could not get anyone so i left a message. I called the person in the ad next to me and she did agree to be in the calender so i guess it is real. I looked them up on the BBB and they have an unsatifactory rating with a lot of unresolved complaints. I filed a complaint with BBB but what should i do now?

[MissMary]

Nope, you have no obligation to pay. Actually, you have grounds to sue if this goes farther (theft of the picture, personal information, and eventually harassment). It shouldn't however, since you never signed anything and as long as you gave them no info, it won't go to your credit report.

[justrightcandles]

Thank GOD! I was so worried. If they really are a business they are a bad one. Who sends out an print ad without getting people to sign a proof and NEVER gave them any picture to use anyways.....uHHH! i am so mad now. It is just ugly, most of the pictures are fuzzy, it is just terrible. Should I write the fact that i submitted a claim on BBB against them and that i did not sign anything or should i just continue to ignore them?! I am for sure not going to talk to them on the phone!

[Vicky_CO]

You need to send a certified letter stating you never agreed to anything.

This is like that horrible long distance phone service trick that is played. You know where they say they are from your long distance company and they are just checking to see if you have the best deal now.

[debscent]

So, you said "sure" then asked them to send you something? What was the something you expected them to send you? While I think their business practice sucks, you agreed to it and they proceeded to take information that they had and printed it. Sounds like amateurs to me, but I still think your biggest issue is you said "sure."

Have you once told or written anyone to say you didn't want this ad? You do need to document correspondence and certified mail is the way to go.

Are your pictures copyrighted on your website, etc.? I see your site is copyrighted, but you may want to protect your pictures from reproduction too.

I hope you can resolve it, but I think their defense is, you agreed on the phone to this. Just my $.02.

[HeavenScentU]

I think saying sure does give them permission to put your business on a calender. I think you should have inquired what picture is going to be on the calender. I don't do offer to do anything via phone because if they recorded it you have to pay and $200.00 is alot. That is a tough one, but if you do get business than it may have been worth it. Good luck!

[linnaete]

You should have no obligation to pay. They printed an ad for your company without even consulting you about it... Verbal agreements over the phone mean squat, not to mention you didn't know the fee before saying OK, and once you did you didn't like the terms and requested more information.

Obviously they have a poor track record through the BBB, by using this unscrupulous angle to guilt people into paying their fees. To put a poorly reproduced picture of a website without any proofs and charge $200? What a joke!

I just want to add on and say this:

There's no way for the company to verify who they called and talked to. For all they know if could be your babysitter who agreed to the charge...

[barncat]

i did one of those...course it was only $15. but even then, I they sent me a proof i had to sign off on. I say don't pay.

[sockmonkey]

You may have said yes, but you also told them you wanted information in writing first. People that pull those scams are very conniving. They pump information out of you, as though you're just having a routine conversation, but what they are really doing is filling out an unauthorized work ticket for you.

Usually, when you request something in writing, it's enough to make them hang up on you or tell you they don't have anything, so at that point you know not to do business with them. These people though, obviously got enough info so that they could make it look like you ordered an ad and they ran with it.

You ought to send them a certified letter stating that you requested information in writing before proceding and never received anything except a bill AFTER they printed an ad for your company WITHOUT your permission, reproducing images taken illegally from your website, and publishing your private cell phone number without your consent. As a result, you do not owe the bill for which they are trying to collect; and you intend to hold them liable for any increased charges on your cell phone up to and including the cost for obtaining a new cell phone number, or for any additional charges that may be incurred as a result of publishing your private cell phone number on their calendar.

[happy_paws_haven]

You can also let them know that your lawyer will be in touch with them for violating the copyright laws. Any pictures of your products on your site are automatically copyrighted to you and may not be used without your consent. If they do not have your consent in writing they can be sued.

Note that statutory damages for copyright infringement can be anywhere from $200-$100,000, depending on whether the infringer is deemed innocent or willful.

HTH

[justrightcandles]

That is what i was afraid of, that i said sure, but that was BEFORE she told me it was $200. It wasn't until almost the end of the conversation that she told me it was $200 then i ask for more info. What i expected was to get some sort of contract defining what i was getting into.

I didn't think a verbal agreement means anything either. i hope not. But again i said yes before she told me the price. It was a weird phone call to, she acted so interested in how i made the candles and for a minute there i thought she was someone local (the number on my cell phone was a local number and i tired to call it back but no one ever answers, but no i did not write down the date i tried to call them) trying to get out of me how i make my candles. i mean she was asking about the process, where do you get your jars from, how do you scent them, how did you get started......i was getting suspicious. But then at the end bam! oh and it will be $200.

I was like whoa, i think i would like some more information and they verified my address and said it would say on there where to send what ever ad i wanted to use in it but all i got was a bill with their website on it. Again the website only has an 800 number on it. But no i did not try to call them. i thought it was a scam.

The next letter i got was another bill and the calender with my picture, and phone number on it. I never give out my phone number, just me email address. (by the way, they got that info from yet another mistake from the local chamber of commerce. i told them that i did not want my number or address printed and they said no problem and of course my address and personal phone number is printed in the chambers directory for ALL to see! But it is already printed and there is nothing i can do about that! )

God, i hope this does not turn into some nightmare. I think i will write up an offical sounding letter stating that i said yes before they told me the price and then afterwards i asked for more information, and that i did not agree to have the picture put up there, and my number listed, and i did not sign off on anykind of proof what so ever, i think i will cc it to the Better Business Bureau. hopefully that will scare them.

[happy_paws_haven]

NO, do not put in writing that you said yes to anything. That will and can be used against you.

[justrightcandles]

crap....ok.

thanks

[MissMary]

Technically, the way a court would look at it, you said sure to what was outlined, after your confirmation, the person you talked to changed the deal (by adding in that it costs $200) and would be looked at as an addition to a verbal contract that would have to be agreed to. So unless you actually said yes to the $200, then it doesn't matter what you said yes to before that part. That's why you cannot be held responsible to pay. You have to agree to the fee as well.

[sockmonkey]

If they said you said yes over the phone, then they should also have it noted that you asked for further information. If they record their conversations, then they should have it on record. More than likely, they don't have it recorded, otherwise how did they come up with something that contained errors (city spelled wrong, private cell phone number used, etc.). It's simply notes the company rep took, but failed to add "contract pending approval, customer requested further information."

Since you can't get in touch by phone, in your letter, state that you are requesting an immediate call from an official of their company to discuss the matter. Also state that failure to contact you within 72 hours from receipt of your letter will be considered acknowledgement on their part that the bill in question has been canceled and the matter is resolved.

Why not call the school they supposedly represented and ask them about their connection. It's quite possible that the school does not authorize the printing and has no affiliation with the company. Does the school receive any proceeds from the calendars? If not, you might want to mention that in your letter as well, because then it becomes a situation of selling ad space under false pretenses.

[MissMary]

She can't do 72 hours. By law, she has to give them 30 days.

[Di_in_AZ]

Your best bet is to call a lawyer, a lot of them give free consults. THEY will be the safe bet and the ones who know for sure. You can also search under AZ state law (pm me if you need help) and also look under the consumer protection laws under the Arizona state website. State law varies and it will come down to that--armchair lawyers are just that and if this goes further, it will look pretty silly telling a judge that on CT they said.....

[Late Night]

I agree with Di. It really doesn't matter what any of us think. Get some legal help. By the way...I think it stinks.

[MissMary]

State law doesn't matter in this case, it would be federal, because of the nature of the issue and the recent acts passed in the last 3-4 years about fraud, illegal charges, etc.

But then again, I give enough credit to justright, that if this went to a court, you'd have the common sense actually get a lawyer and not be dumb enough to go in front of a judge.

Maybe some people just don't like to think other people have common sense.

[Di_in_AZ]

State law doesn't matter in this case, it would be federal, because of the nature of the issue and the recent acts passed in the last 3-4 years about fraud, illegal charges, etc.

But then again, I give enough credit to justright, that if this went to a court, you'd have the common sense actually get a lawyer and not be dumb enough to go in front of a judge.

Maybe some people just don't like to think other people have common sense.

State law DOES matter, that is who would handle this. A federal judge does not have the time to deal with issues this minor.

The State of Arizona does have consumer protection laws. Can you imagine how congested federal courts would be if they took up consumer cases? Only unless it is large scale and interstate would you see the feds involved. This is not something that the feds would handle, sorry. Yes, the federal government has made some laws regarding consumer protection, but the enforcement for something like this is done by state or local agencies.

Here is an excerpt from the state attorney general's office covering this very thing:

Consumer fraud, as defined by Arizona law, is any deception, false statement, false pretense, false promise or misrepresentation made by a seller or advertiser of merchandise. In addition, concealment, suppression or failure to disclose a material fact may be consumer fraud if it is done with the intent that others rely on such concealment, suppression or nondisclosure. Merchandise may include any objects, wares, goods, commodities, intangibles, real estate or services.

The following is a brief overview of the Consumer Fraud Act. The Act is found at A.R.S.§ 44-1521 through 44-1534. The Attorney General's Office offers this information as a public service but is prohibited by law from giving you legal advice. If you have questions regarding your particular case you might want to contact a private attorney.

The Arizona Attorney General has the authority to bring actions alleging violations of the Consumer Fraud Act. Sometimes the enforcement authority is delegated to County Attorneys. A private citizen can also bring an action for a violation of the Consumer Fraud Act within one year from the date the claim arises.

If you believe you have been the victim of consumer fraud, you should first contact the company in writing and specifically request the relief that you feel is appropriate. You may also file a complaint with the Attorney General's Office.

[sockmonkey]

She can't do 72 hours. By law, she has to give them 30 days.

Would you mind citing what law you refer to?

[debscent]

Oh boy! Here we go!!!

Just Right --

I wouldn't worry about court proceedings, lawyers etc. until you (1) are sued, or (2) decide to go after them for taking your information off your website (which I would not worry about actually). I don't think for $200 it's worth consulting an attorney who would eventually cost more than this.

I don't claim to be a lawyer or one in training...but in my 20+ years of legal experience, I personally wouldn't worry about all of this now. Send them a certified letter explaining that you do not intend to pay $200 for a service you did not agree to and if they insist on pursuing the issue, tell them you will counter-claim against them for obtaining information from your website that is clearly copyrighted. And I also don't believe this is a federal matter. My goodness if it was, could you imagine the docket?

Good luck and don't lose anymore sleep over this!

[leisa2003]

I agree with debscent.

I used to be a telemarketer that sold insurance, and know how they can say things to get you to say yes. They are not wrong for billing you, they can send you all the bills they want. But DO NOT PAY them. And besides how do they know it was YOU:wink2: speaking, or replying to them! I have a teenage dd, who tells telemarketers shes me all the time, just to play with them. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. They are only billing you, and if they send it in for collection, then contact a lawyer. JMHO!

[sockmonkey]

Leisa has good advice.

[CareBear]

debscent has her head screwed on nice and tight.