stupid question CP vs HP

[Brat]

I'm interested in learning how to make soap. I'm not interested in M&P. I just read a couple of tutorials. One was for CP and one for HP. One was supposed to cure quicker and be easier to make. They seemed the same... what is the difference between the two? I'm sure there's something I missed... thanks!

[Tall Blonde]

Others will be able to answer this better, but as I understand, HP you subject your raw soap to a heat source (like the stove). It gels faster and forces saponification faster. There are several different methods of HP, such as crock pot, direct heat, double boiler, oven process, etc. You're basically cooking your soap.

With cold process, after you melt your butters and oils and bring your lye temp down you mix it all together until you reach trace, pour the raw soap into a mold, then insulate it. The chemical reaction causes its own heat and produces saponification. The 6 week or so curing is to ensure saponification is complete and to allow water to evaporate, hopefully hardening your soap.

I tried DBHP & DHHP a couple times and didn't like the way it turned out. I prefer the smoothness of CP. And I don't have any molds to fit in my oven, so I haven't tried OHP.

I hope I explained this all right?:undecided

[firegirl]

Brat.. thanks for asking the question.. I had been wondering the same thing myself..

[Sharon in KY]

Haven't tried CP but have made HP. The way I make it is mix everything as with CP and after pouring in mold place mold in the oven 175* turn off and leave in oven over night. I have a loaf 3# mold so it fits fine. Next day cut and it is done, just may need to harden up. I have never done a water discount so don't know what it would be like with it.

[Brat]

Others will be able to answer this better, but as I understand, HP you subject your raw soap to a heat source (like the stove). It gels faster and forces saponification faster. There are several different methods of HP, such as crock pot, direct heat, double boiler, oven process, etc. You're basically cooking your soap.

If I'm understanding this right, with HP after you mix everything together, you'd pour it into molds, then put it in the oven afterwards, while with CP you'd just pour into molds?

[Brat]

Haven't tried CP but have made HP. The way I make it is mix everything as with CP and after pouring in mold place mold in the oven 175* turn off and leave in oven over night. I have a loaf 3# mold so it fits fine. Next day cut and it is done, just may need to harden up. I have never done a water discount so don't know what it would be like with it.

Ok, thanks for posting that. I was typing as you posted this. So with the HP, how long does the "cure" take? Is it less time than the 4 weeks for CP? Or does it do most of its curing in the oven?

Thanks for the help!

[Sharon in KY]

It cures in the oven, the heat apparently makes it cure much faster. One day instead of 4 weeks. Like I say it won't be hard, takes some drying out for that. But I can never wait to use it and it's great. No zap, just wonderful soap.

[Sharon in KY]

if you don't belong to? You should join the Soap Dish do a search for HPOP and just enjoy the read.

http://www.soapdishforum.com/forum/index.php?

[TexasBrat]

CPOP is just like CPHP but you cook it in your crockpot and don't need to put it in the oven. You pour in molds and wait for it to harden and then slice it up and use it.

[Brat]

Thanks for the help, I certainly appreciate it! One day soon I'll try to get my feet wet in soap... right now I just fear the lye LOL

I'll check out that link too, Sharon...

Thanks again!

[Tall Blonde]

If I'm understanding this right, with HP after you mix everything together, you'd pour it into molds, then put it in the oven afterwards, while with CP you'd just pour into molds?

Well, from what I've read of OHP, yes. With CP, after you reach trace, you pour it into your mold, then insulate with blankets (or not, some people don't insulate to avoid the gel stage). What I do is, I have a wood mold, I put some freezer paper and a piece of wood on top, then throw an old sleeping bag over it. You have to understand that I do my soapmaking in the garage, so it's a bit chilly in there, so I have to insulate pretty well. Then the natural chemical reaction (saponification) takes place. You can really feel the heat from it! After 12 hours or so, I take a peek. Usually I give it a little poke to see how it's hardening. Then after another 12-24 hours I take it out of the mold and let it sit. Then depending on how hard it is and how eager I am I cut it. And then, because I am impatient, I cut a small slice, run inside and start washing with it. As long as my hands don't itch and burn, it's ok.

A lot of people do hot process because they don't want the waiting time. Like I said, my mold doesn't fit in the oven (it's a big slab mold my dh built for me) and I make 41/2 to 7 lbs of soap, depending on the recipe. I'd just say, try different things and see what you like best. I also use a lot of fruit, veggies and milk/yogurt in my soaps, & the temps for those ingredients are best kept low. Just make some small batches using different methods, take lots of notes and see what you like!

[Brat]

I think I'll try to find a simple recipe somewhere for both processes, and see which one I like best. I think I'll like the HP better, because I'm impatient and would want to be able to use the soap as quickly as possible. But, I also like the idea of using fruit, veggies, and milk too, so... who knows? I plan on reading as much about it as I can before I start doing anything, cause I really hate having to go back and figure out what I did wrong. I don't want to do what I did with the candles and buy a bunch of everything all at once... what a mess that's been! Anyway, thanks so much for all the info, this board is the best!

[Carol M]

There is a cold process method which I think is called CPOP; with this method, you do cold process as usual, then put your mold into the oven for a time to ensure a gel, but this isn't a true hot process method. I do oven hot process, and my mold never goes into the oven. With hot process, your soap is cooked completely before you mold it. While you don't get as smooth a product as with cp, it does have some benefits. You color and scent at the end of the cook, when all the lye is neutralized, so you don't have as much trouble with colors and fragrances morphing, and also not as much risk of acceleration. Also, less scent may be required, and the soap is ready for use sooner. I would not recommend a water discount with this method, though; the soap "batter" would be too thick to be workable. If you watch it closely and only cook the minimum time necessary, the soap will still be mostly pourable; you can't get the really beautiful swirls like with cp, but you can still get a very pretty bar.

[brydean]

I'm still very new to all of this. But I have been doing CPHP, I like the way my soaps have been turning out. I have mastered a fairly nice marbeling effect to my soaps. Its not nice and smooth like CP, but I personally like the rough, rustic appearance the top of my soaps have. I really want to try CPOP also, but I need to get a good mold first. I choose HP soaps because I have small children and I felt it was safer since it would be completely saponified by the time I was done. Less chance of them getting into something they shouldn't.

[TexasBrat]

If you do try cphp one thing I didn't know about but learned about after several batches of soap is to look at the flashpoints on your fo's. It is best to have a higher flashpoint so to not have the fragrance burn off. I let my soap cool for a few minutes before adding fo.

Good luck and show us your creations.

[Brat]

Thanks again for all the info. I've been reading most of the evening, and I think I'll try the OHP first. It'll be a few weeks, I'm sure.. but I'll post pics of whatever comes out of the mold, good or bad! I won't get all into coloring or swirls or anything like that. I'll just be happy with a decent batch...

[junebug]

What, if any method is most popular or most favored???

TIA!!!

[Tall Blonde]

I prefer CP because I like the smoothness of the soap, and I like to use fruits, veggies and milk in my soaps.

[Crafty1_AJ]

What, if any method is most popular or most favored???

TIA!!!

My best guesstimate is that most soapers do CP. I like to use both processes, however, depending on what I want to achieve.

I go cold process when I want a smooth bar and the fo/eo's I want to add don't accelerate trace too much. I go cold process when I want a fluid, wispy swirl. CP is what I use for about 75% of my soaps.

I go hot process when I want to add accelerating fo/eo after the cook. I go hot process when I want to use a scent that morphs in CP. I go hot process to maintain the qualities of certain eo's that I'd rather not risk getting fried by the saponification process, which can be rough.

Hot process soap can be used right after it cools in the mold, but it will be very soft. It will get harder and last longer if you let it dry out for a few weeks.

[SassyLady]

I've got to tell you, I have only ever done cphp, so I can't comment on cp or the other hp methods. I really enjoy the cooking process, it's really cool to watch the stages the goop goes through to become soap.

Someone posted that if you like to cook, you will probably like making soap and B&B. Well, I really like to cook, so cooking my soap is great.

I've never used fruit, but I have made Oatmeal, Milk & Honey. I cooked the whole mess and it turned out good. I've since learned you can add your "goodies" at the end of the cook, so after the cook I added goat's milk and cocoa butter to a batch of chocolate soap and goat's milk and shea butter to my vanilla soap. I just made these two batches tonight, but so far they both feel wonderful.

I think that whatever process you choose to try, just know that you do get better at this craft as you get more experience under your belt! I haven't made a bad batch yet...hope I didn't just jinx myself silly!?!

Anyway, good luck...and don't worry about the lye, just be careful and use safety precautions.

Lisa

[thecandlespastore]

I would suggest for a first time soaper to try plain old CP first, less steps to follow. Also all methods need a good curing time. Curing is not all about making sure the saponification process is complete, that is usually taken care of with a good gel. The 4-6 week timeframe is good for CP and HP, let's all the water evaporate. I personally prefer CP because the bars are smooth, and I like the feel of the soaps. My HP soaps actually take a bit longer to harden than my CP. So I rarely do HP. I almost always insulate my CP either by popping the mold in the oven or putting them in gelling boxes with comforters on top.

With any soap, the longer the soap "cures" the better it is. There is nothing like finding a bar of soap that is over 6 months old, man, that feels good!

[CareBear]

My first soap was a CPHP (I think) - a castile (Eugenia's, with 90% olive oil, 10% castor). Perfect as CP as well - moves nice and slow (ok, really really slow - slow slow slow) and it's great not fragranced or colored!

[Brat]

Thanks for all the encouragement and info! One day soon, I'll try to get moving on it, I just really don't want to mess it up!

One more question, what is castile?

[Crafty1_AJ]

Castile is an olive oil soap. Most soapers refer to a soap as "castile" only if it's 100% olive oil, or darn close to 100%. heh heh

You will see 100% coconut soaps called "castile" too though ... commercially produced ones, that is. I don't know that the government regulates the use of the word "castile" so sometimes folks use the term pretty loosely.

[CareBear]

90% olive oil, 10% castor: I call it castile, but I guess it's really a bastile (as in bastardized castile). Great beginner recipe.

Word of advice, though - don't use pomace olive oil for it, the bar won't be nice and white, and the trace wil be fast,