464 Hot Throw

[georgiaII]

This may be my imagination but the hot throw starts off great and as the candle burns it becomes almost nonexistent by the time it burns completely. This has happened with several different FO's. All candles heated to 170 degrees and poured at approximately 130 degrees - 10% FO. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.

[SouthernGal]

What temp are you adding your f/o? How long are you stirring your f/o? What type of wick are you using? Sorry for all the (?'s) but it can help others help you.

[georgiaII]

I am heating wax to 170, adding dye and FO immediately. I stir dye then add FO and stir again. I then stir again before pouring at 130. I use 2 HTP 93's in a 10-oz apothecary jar. Have also tried one HTP 105 with same results. Thanks.

One other weird thing - it seems that the cold throw is not as good when candles are cured for any length of time. I have two Keepsake jars with Birthday Cake FO (very strong when first poured) that have cured for about a month and the cold throw is not good.

[Crowded House]

Have you tried another tester on your theory that the scent is gone towrds the end of the candle?

When I first started testing the 444 (essentially the same wax but with a higher melt point) I noticed a strange salt smell in the hot throw of all the FO's in the candles.

Then I realized that I'd been testing A LOT and I probably just had candle nose. After a week of no pouring or testing everything was back to normal.

[georgiaII]

I would think that might be the case but right now I'm burning a candle made with KY Pure Soy and Baby Powder FO and it is almost at the bottom of the candle and the throw is great on that one. The 464 candle with Lemon Pound Cake has burned almost to the bottom of the container and I can't smell it at all and haven't been able to smell it for a while.

[SouthernGal]

I raise my wax to 190* then add f/o around 180* and I stir for for atleast 2 min., let it cool to pour temp and stir again. I've read alot about some f/o being harder to combine with the wax and needing to be added at higher temps with lots of stirring. How long does it take to reach a full melt pool?

[georgiaII]

It takes about 3 and one half hours to reach a full melt pool. Maybe the Baby Powder has just taken over and I can't smell anything else. I'm not fond of Baby Powder but it certainly has a powerful hot throw.

I'm going to try heating to 190 and see what happens. Thanks.

I wonder what would happen if I added USA to this wax even though the 2% is the same type ingredient? Has anyone tried this?

[SouthernGal]

I've had a supplier tell me to much USA can hender the scent throw. I haven't tried it. Since you have tried your Baby Powder and know it throws really well in pure soy have you tested it in 464 to see if you get the same reults? It might be one way of finding out if the problem is your f/o or your wax.

[georgiaII]

That's a great idea and I'm going to try it. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks.

[realmarcha]

This may be my imagination but the hot throw starts off great and as the candle burns it becomes almost nonexistent by the time it burns completely. This has happened with several different FO's. All candles heated to 170 degrees and poured at approximately 130 degrees - 10% FO. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.

I have had this happen to me with the 464 using 10% fo; scent throw starts off fantastic then once the candle has burned 1/2 way, or more, I started to notice less of a scent throw and more of a waxy smell. I know I poured correctly and wicked correctly. I am now trying a mixture with the 464, but am thinking I may just try the 415 (Ky Pure Soy) by itself again and see what happens. It has been years since I tested the 415, so need to retest. From what I remember, it is a great wax...burn and cold/hot throw. Good luck in your testing.

[iammommytwo]

I posted a thread for FO% in 464, and also spoke w/Melissa @ SoyCandle.com.... most of the recomendations seem to be 8% FO.

I mean, I don't know for sure, but perhaps you can try cutting back a bit??:undecided

'cause more is not always better.

[Kaybee23]

In my 464I used 6% because it is a strong FO, that throws well at 6% in my 415. I have noticed the same thing, after it burns for a while, the scent seems to go away. Thought it was just me, but asked DH the other day if he could smell the candle I had lit in the living room, and he said what candle? If it had been the 415, you could have smelled it in the kitchen and the living room. This is one of my strongest scents, and normally does well at 6%, but not in the 464. Glad it wasn't just me noticing that.

[georgiaII]

The KY Pure Soy is a great wax but I wanted something that I could pour hot. I'm relieved to know that the disappearing scent throw is not just my imagination.

I have tried the 464 with only 8% FO and have encountered the same problem. I am going to try mixing it with Taylored Concepts 50/50 and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[iammommytwo]

hhmmm....Ihope this isn't gonna be the case, 'cause I just bought 25# of it :rolleyes2

Perhaps we should get Jason in on this. I will also call Melissa and she was she has to say.

I'll let you all know what happens.

[pocha]

I too have noticed the "vanishing scent throw" after the 1st few burns with this wax. I also though it was "just me." I did recently test a scent that managed to burn strongly the whole way down (Steve's Grapefruit Ginger...super strong and delicious and $8/lb!!) but it seems like my other scents (from BCS and ICS) did not do as well. I hope we can get to the bottom of this because I bought 50lbs!!

[iammommytwo]

I sent a PM to Jason. Hopefully he'll chime in here soon

.

I will also call Melissa tomorrow.

[SouthernGal]

I had that happen to my with Eco-Soya but I was using self trimming wicks. I've been using paper-core wicks with my 464 and haven't ran into that problem. Now you guys have got me worried so I'm burn testing 3 different f/o from different suppliers. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

[iammommytwo]

hey Gal,

PLEASE let us know how those wicks are working. It'll be very interesting to see what happens. Maybe the paper cores will be the way to go w/this wax. I myself use RRD's some, but am currently switching to the LX's. I'm gonna make one tomorrow, but I'll have to wait 'til Thurs to test it.

[KathyNJ]

I've had the same problem with the 464. Cold throw is good. Hot throw is good first couple of burns, but then that's it, hot throw is gone..........for the rest of the candle.

[SouthernGal]

hey Gal,

PLEASE let us know how those wicks are working. It'll be very interesting to see what happens. Maybe the paper cores will be the way to go w/this wax. I myself use RRD's some, but am currently switching to the LX's. I'm gonna make one tomorrow, but I'll have to wait 'til Thurs to test it.

I test burned those 3 candels for 5 hours. The 1st one had never been burned before. It had 6% Vanilla f/o from Alabaster(this f/o is not good in any soy, imo). This did not have a good cold throw or hot throw. The second one had burned half way down with 7% Peach,Magnolia,& Rasberry from Alabaster. This one threw great even being a lite scent. I test burned this one in my open living room and I have vaulted ceilings. The third one had only 1 inch wax left, it contained 10% CandleShop f/o from C&S still burned super strong all the way down. I had to place this one in the bath tub. It was melted all the way to the bottom and after burning for 5 hours I was being cautious. These are just at a few testers but they each have paper core wicks. Also I have found with some f/o that are harder to blend in wax, I will add at 200* to 210* and remove from heat immediately with lots of stirring to keep the oil evenly blended. So far, so good.

[Golden Brands]

Hot throw and cold throw are the hardest questions to answer. This is such a personal matter and each individual will smell things different. I have heard people love the hot throw in the 464. I have also heard from people who say it has no throw and people who say the throw ends half way down the candle.

I can only make suggestions on this.

First, I would look to see if I was burning the wax too fast. Having too big of a flame will cause the FO to burn faster than the wax. It will eventually catch up, but there will be a moment in which you will not get a hot throw.

Second, I would look at the FO’s I was using. Just because an FO works in one soy wax doesn’t mean it will work in another. You may want to try another brand of a certain scent.

If anyone would like to discuss this please feel free to call me at 1-800-622-3055 ext 101.

Thanks.

[Kaybee23]

Also I have found with some f/o that are harder to blend in wax, I will add at 200* to 210* and remove from heat immediately with lots of stirring to keep the oil evenly blended. So far, so good.

That might be a good temp for paraffin, but that is a little hot for the soy IMO. I don't heat mine above 180-185 at the highest.

I also wanted to respond to Jason's post. Thank you for responding to this thread.

I have been testing many of the gb waxes, and have been faithfully using the 415 with added beeswax for about 2 1/2 years. I get a great cold and hot throw from this combo. Since I am always looking for something just a little better, I bought some of the 464 to try, after seeing the testing thread on it. I have been testing a FO from Candle Cocoon, that throws awesome in the 415/beeswax blend at 6% load, it is a strong FO. It is also a unique blend that I have yet to match from anywhere else. Using the same load, I poured 2 candles from the 464 wax, adding nothing to them. One poured hot, and one poured using the tempering method. I think I posted results back in this thread somewhere. Nice cold throw, you couldn't ask for much better, just like the 415. Once I lit it though, you could smell it at first, but after what was about an hour or 2, you could not smell it anymore. It is almost like the UA is inhibiting the throw, like the vybar does in paraffin if too much is added. I am going to play around with this wax some more next week, after the conference, but so far, I am still holding strong to the 415.

[iammommytwo]

hey Kerry,

does adding the BW help w/the frosting? Just asking 'cause that's my biggest "pet-peeve".....I hate frosting.

[iammommytwo]

I had that happen to my with Eco-Soya but I was using self trimming wicks. I've been using paper-core wicks with my 464 and haven't ran into that problem. Now you guys have got me worried so I'm burn testing 3 different f/o from different suppliers. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

OKAY GAL....from what I was told, I believe you are on the right track w/the wicking-PLEASE keep us posted on this.

I called Melissa @ SoyCandle.com- IF ANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CALL HER, THEN PLEASE DO SO. She would welcome the opportunity to speak w/you. 1-866-375-8969

Melissa has pretty much confirmed that you CANNOT use self-trimming wicks w/the 464. I am going to test w/an RRD ('cause that's what I have here, besides the LX's). You also have to make sure that you keep your wax stirred after adding your FO, before you pour.

Let's try and keep each other informed, because I know that I'd like to keep using this wax. :highfive:

Also- what are some types of NON self-trimming wicks (sorry, I'm not familiar )

[Kaybee23]

hey Kerry,

does adding the BW help w/the frosting? Just asking 'cause that's my biggest "pet-peeve".....I hate frosting.

In the testing threads Jason said that beeswax does not play nice with this wax with the universal soy additive. I am gonna play with it some more next week and see if I can get some diff. results.