Soy adding additives?

[Lisa]

If you make soy candles and add anything to it but the normal fragrances and color. What do you say your candle is? 100% soy or what?

Thanks

Hugs, Lisa

[Meridith]

I call mine Natural Soy Wax Candles.

[Kaybee23]

I call it a soy blend.

[daniedb]

I totally misunderstood the question - so scratch my answer. I thought you were asking if you ONLY add fragrance and color. Now that I get it, I have a different answer. In fact, I don't have an answer. Sorry!

[jacobSue]

What are you adding to it?

[Lisa]

Nothing but if i did maybe Stearic acid.

[jacobSue]

I would call that a soy blend. I don't think it is ethical to call it all soy. I could be wrong. I'm sure there aren't any real rules on this.

[Lugnut]

Well if you put fragrance in it you just blended it and if you put color in it you just blended it some more.

I haven't had anyone ask if it's pure soy or not and it may be unethical but i just say they are made from Soy.

if you ever go to QVC and look up soy candles you'll notice they just say Soy. I probably have 50 of their Soy candles here and I can tell you they are a blend. Not just a little one either. people are some what strange. I have put a few of my candles on Ebay and call them soy and at the same time I have put the shopping channels candles on and usually use their add with a couple changes. People will buy theirs much faster and will pay more for them also. I believe appearance and recognition play a bigger role than ingrediants or even quality. Some of the name brand candles i've sold are of such poor quality it's almost rediculous but many of the same people buy them over and over. So i don't see anything wrong with simply saying they are made from soy and leaving out the specifics.

There was a thread here some where that discussed actual Soy and that it really is not pure anyway in it's wax form. Might could find it with the search feature.

[lovesoy]

Vegetable stearic isn't soy wax, but it is not a petroleum by-product. I use beeswax in my soy candles, and I call them soy candles. They are soy except for the additives (beeswax, fragrance oil, color). I do not call them 100% soy. I do say in my brochure that I start with 100% American grown soy wax and add fragrance, color and other ingredients to enhance the candles and make them smell great while you burn them.

Their aren't any real rules about this, except your ethics. Some large candle companies say they sell soy candles, but they never have frost or other soy issues, so I am not sure if they really are. I don't think that I have to disclose all of my formula to my customers. If it is a real issue for them, like an allergy or sensitivity, I would discuss it with them. Otherwise, it is really none of their business. If I blended my soy with a significant percentage of another wax, I would call it a soy blend. But I use less beeswax than I do fragrance.

[jacobSue]

what is soy in wax form. It has been my understanding that there is no wax form. It is just soy. Soy is Soy...Right?

[Lugnut]

Well no it isn't just Soy. It is Soy wax.

The thread I mentioned is at the top of the page now. Or click below and read henryk's post.

http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1217

[Jeana]

I know if you use soy wax to make pillars, there is always something mixed with it to make it more sturdy to become a pillar and come out of the molds. Even most container blends are not "pure soy", they have botanicals and other stuff. So as long as you are not claiming it is 100% pure soy wax, I don't see anything unethical about calling it a soy wax candle. When I describe my candles to people I tell them they are an all vegetable wax blend.

[topofmurrayhill]

If I make a paraffin candle and use stearic it's still a paraffin candle. With soy wax it would still be a soy candle. However, I would shy away from more specific statements such as "100% fully refined food grade paraffin" because it could be misleading. If for some reason I saw fit to say it, I would at least have to clearly explain what I meant by it.

I think it's also very appropriate to consider what information your market segment is interested in, especially when it comes to marketing products made from natural/renewable materials. Some people may buy them casually but a lot of people have a special interest in them. There are enough companies willing to snooker them and I wouldn't join the crowd.

For instance, non-vegetable stearic is an animal by-product and the purchasers of soy candles might want to know about that. The more serious vegans might want to know about beeswax too. Even though you don't need to dismember a bee to get beeswax, some of them have a problem with it. In that instance, unless it constituted a really essential trade secret, I would turn it into a plus and advertise it. Beeswax is a costly, upscale and excellent candle ingredient, even as an additive.

Having said all that, I could see cutting a few corners. The wicks I get are primed with paraffin and I wouldn't sweat using one of them in a soy candle without any specific mention of it.

[topofmurrayhill]

what is soy in wax form. It has been my understanding that there is no wax form. It is just soy. Soy is Soy...Right?

No it's a complicated process and not entirely as natural as it sounds, but what it comes down to is extracting and refining the soy oil and then turning it into margarine. They hydrogenate the oil to make wax -- actually bubble hydrogen gas through it to change it chemically.

[Meridith]

I also say in my brochures that I start with 100% soy wax and add natural botanicals to help make a better candle, therefore I call my candles natural soy wax candles. I don't add paraffin in my candles otherwise I would call it a soy wax blend. I don't advertise nor taut my candles as 100% soy and I am very honest to my customers that they aren't 100% soy nor are they 100% natural. I don't think this is unethical in any way to call them natural soy wax candles if you add other natural botanicals to enhance it. I also don't think its wrong to call it a soy wax blend. I think its a matter of choice and the willingness to properly explain it to customers depends on whether you are being ethical or unethical. The only additive not natural in my candles is the FO used to scent it since I don't color my candles. And some will argue the wick isn't natural.

[jacobSue]

No it's a complicated process and not entirely as natural as it sounds, but what it comes down to is extracting and refining the soy oil and then turning it into margarine. They hydrogenate the oil to make wax -- actually bubble hydrogen gas through it to change it chemically.

They hydrogenate it to take the soy form oil to a harder form. It is still soy. I was told that soy "wax" is the same thing you use to cook with. It just has a different melt point. Again, how can there be any difference between soy as in crisco or vegi oil or soy wax. The only difference is the melt point and the hardness of the soy. I just don't understand. The only difference between Wesson Oil and Soy Wax is the melt point. Wesson Oil is in liquid form so it has a low melt point. The "Wax" is in a harder form. So it has a higher melt point.

I just can't figure out why I cna't get the same answer on this subjuct. Everyone seems to have a different opinion.

[topofmurrayhill]

I just can't figure out why I cna't get the same answer on this subjuct. Everyone seems to have a different opinion.

Maybe it depends on your point of view.

When you make various products out of the raw material using similar processes, all of them can be considered a rather pure derivative of soy. However, when you say the only difference is the melting point you are still saying a lot. The reason the melting point is different is because the molecules in the substance are different. The chemical composition has been changed as part of the manufacturing process.

Paraffins of different melting points are different on a molecular level too, although they are all similar. In that case, instead of creating them you are just sorting out the different variations of the molecule from the raw material.

[scents for me]

http://www.geocities.com/get_scent/waxsection.htm#soy

[Henryk]

Great thread. Just wanted to add if "vegans" didn't care if there was beeswax in a product then they aren't vegans. Its like being "half pregnant" - you either are, or you aren't.

[Sharon in KY]

I would say soy beans are like the bayberries. They are not wax but a waxy substance is subtracted from them both, hence soybean wax or baybery wax. Sounds good to me....

[jacobSue]

Is there a difference between Wesson oil and Crisco. They are both soy. They just have a different melt point. There is no point in which you change the melt point and the soy turns from food grade to a candle wax. It is soy. I could stick a wick in vics vapor rub and burn it. Does that make it wax, or is it still vapor rub? There is an old saying that you are intitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts. Soy is Soy. It has many different applications, but it is what it is. You may add hydro to it, but it is still soy. It doesn't change the molecules to something new, it just bends them to make it harder. If it wasn't soy it would be called something else. It is soy.

[RobinInOR]

Actually, it does change the molecules. When something is hydrogenated, double bonds are broken and hydrogen and oxygen molecules are added. So it is based on a soy oil, but it is technically different. Plus, the hydrogenation process uses a catalyst like hexane, which might still be present in very small amounts in the hydrogenated product. That bothers some.

In any case, producing soy oil or soy wax or Crisco use huge manufacturing plants, so it's probably moot anyway which is friendlier to the environment, if that's a concern of someone.