Coconut Apricot Wax Help

[CatoftheCanals]

Hi everyone! I'm new here and relatively new to candle making.

 

I recently switched from soy to coconut apricot wax as I am trying to make colored candles and was struggling with the aesthetic of colored soy. So far I love this wax. It's beautiful, melts nicely, can pour hot, easy to use and looks amazing pre and post burn. 

 

The problem I'm having is with the wicks. I was never able to get a properly wicked soy candle either so its really demoralizing. I'll list below what I've tried and their results. Any advice or suggestions appreciated!

 

Coco-Apricot Wax

8 oz metal tin

3.2 inch diameter

 

These are all after 3 hours burn time. 

 

1. ECO 12

-Nice flame

-No mushrooming

-Melt pool too small (about 1/2 inch around sides)

 

2. ECO 14

-Huge flame

-Flame bouncing

-Soot

-No mushrooming

-Melt pool almost perfect (less than 1/4 inch around sides)

 

Thought maybe ECO just wasn't the way and I had some CD wicks on hand so I started over. I do have some ECO 16 wicks on hand but didn't try because of the huge flame from the 14.

 

3. CD 12

-Nice flame

-No mushrooming

-Melt pool too small (more than 1/2 inch around sides)

 

4. CD 14

-Nice flame at first

-No mushrooming

-Melt pool too small

-Flame dying down around 2 hour mark (like it's drowning)

 

I've read a lot about wicks drowning since it was happening to me with soy. I wouldn't have a big enough melt pool so I'd size up and then my flame would drown. I kept hearing that it was due to the wick being too small and getting clogged or something, but sizing up made it worse which led me to believe that sizing up was making the melt pool too deep too fast and drowning the wick. I tested it by tilting the candles to spread out the pool and the flames improved significantly. So I know it's not due to clogging (I think!) of the wick. 

 

I'm at a loss for this size. I also have a 4 oz tin and a 4 oz glass jelly jar I want to use this wax in but I don't have small enough wicks now and supplies are taking awhile to come in so I want to perfect the 8 oz while I wait. 

 

Photos are the ECO 14. The flame was huge imo, but the melt pool was almost perfect. I know there is supposed to be some residue on the containers with this wax, but is that too much?

 

[CatoftheCanals]

Adding photos of the CD 14 burns.

 

These were taken right at 3 hours.

 

[Kris10Tackles]

I was in the same boat a few weeks ago; switching from soy to coconut wax. I haven't yet tried coconut apricot (Ceda-Serica) but it's on my list. Instead I've been using coconut-soy EC-26. 

 

I literally just switched I had the exact same issues you are (minus tinting wax); huge flame and not a full melt pool. I found information that suggested using much smaller wicks and two of them in containers that are 3 inches and larger. I have a 4.25 inch vessel that did my first 3 wick candle with and it was a success. I'm also in the middle of my first test burn with a 3 inch vessel using 2 CDN 2s. I don't think I have he wicks facing the proper direction but so far I'm pretty happy. I can light the tester I have going on and will post that picture in a little bit.

 

I also had some wonderful guidance from this forum.

[CatoftheCanals]

I had someone on the Candlemaking subreddit suggest double wicks as well. I was hoping to avoid that but it may be necessary. Any tips on how to get them centered correctly? I'm really worried I'm going to mess that up and cause the tins to get too hot.

 

I am currently burning a CD 12 in a 2.5 inch glass container and the flame is also a little high. I have some CD 10s coming so I'll try that when they arrive. Other than that the melt pool and HT/CT are all great. Hoping sizing down one will help with the flame without ruining the rest.

 

What an adventure! I did not realize candle making was so complicated when I started a few months ago. I wanted to add candles to my soap shop and figured it'd be WAY easier than cold process soap haha! In theory it is, but not so much in practice 😅

 

Thanks for you tips! I'd love to see your test photos when you have them.

[Kris10Tackles]

14 minutes ago, CatoftheCanals said:

What an adventure! I did not realize candle making was so complicated when I started a few months ago. I wanted to add candles to my soap shop and figured it'd be WAY easier than cold process soap haha! In theory it is, but not so much in practice 😅

I had no idea it was so technical but I think that's what I love about it! 

 

I've been burning this for about 30-45 min. As you can see I'm still only in the first half of a test burn. It has 7% FO and I'll be curious to see what happens when it get's down to the second half. So far I'm pleased with the flame size, the hot throw, no mushrooming, and the temp of the container. 

16 minutes ago, CatoftheCanals said:

I had someone on the Candlemaking subreddit suggest double wicks as well. I was hoping to avoid that but it may be necessary. Any tips on how to get them centered correctly? I'm really worried I'm going to mess that up and cause the tins to get too hot.

 

I can't help you there. I'm only on my first test candle for double wicking - I filled the jar with wax and used screwers to make holes to test the wicks. If I didn't mention it before, I'm very new to this! 😆

 

I also stumbled upon this thread from a few years ago but the conversation is very insightful. Maybe it'll helpful for you too? 

 

[CatoftheCanals]

4 minutes ago, Kris10Tackles said:

I filled the jar with wax and used screwers to make holes to test the wicks.

Oh man, I just realized I could do this a few days ago. I was making full candles and having to remelt them if they failed!! Saves so much time.

 

I'll see if I can find something online that helps centering double wicks. I read a post on reddit about someone putting them too close to the walls and they caught on fire 😩

 

3 minutes ago, Kris10Tackles said:

I also stumbled upon this thread from a few years ago but the conversation is very insightful. Maybe it'll helpful for you too?

I'll check this out, thank you. Any insight will be helpful I think as I work with this wax.

[Kris10Tackles]

2 minutes ago, CatoftheCanals said:

I'll check this out, thank you. Any insight will be helpful I think as I work with this wax.

It's "general" coconut wax discussion from a few years back. Me reading it = 🤯. 😆😆

[Kris10Tackles]

This was before I discovered small (2s & 3s) CDNs and when I was still trying to used a single wick for coconut. 🙊🙈My flame is embarrassingly ginormous.

[TallTayl]

Tins are a very different beast. Do not judge melt pool til at least the end of the second burn. If you get FMP on the first burn in tins with coconut waxes you will be in trouble on the last half.

[CatoftheCanals]

Thanks! I'll keep this in mind for my testing. The green candle actually had a full melt pool several burns in but the darn flame was high and throwing soot early in the burn.

 

I tried using Stearic Acid (vegetable based) to calm the flame (hope my internet research was correct) and it did, but now I'm concerned the melt pool won't be as big. Testing them now so we will see.

 

 

 

 

[NightLight]

I would try and lx wick. I haven’t tried this wax but it seems it’s the equivalent of soft paraffin.

Your test candles. Make a half full candle and test burn with wicks there. This will tell you where you should land with wicks with this wax. Ecos I would ditch not enough sizes to fine tune candles.

CD wicks burn very hot and high in soft waxes, that’s why you you should try LX.

[TallTayl]

The coco apricot (cera cerica) I have is hard to burn.  it is a soft wax but it strangles normal wicks.
 

The wooden tubes I bought last spring with with a small cotton wick booster inside works the best in my 3” wide status jars. I don’t even bother with short containers like tins. It needs the depth to create a chimney and actually throw. 
 

I’ve been frustrated by the miss or miss with it. My usual go-to throw-without-even-trying fragrances are flops more than winners. It is it’s own beast. 

[Marisa11]

21 hours ago, NightLight said:

I would try and lx wick. I haven’t tried this wax but it seems it’s the equivalent of soft paraffin.

Your test candles. Make a half full candle and test burn with wicks there. This will tell you where you should land with wicks with this wax. Ecos I would ditch not enough sizes to fine tune candles.

CD wicks burn very hot and high in soft waxes, that’s why you you should try LX.

I was wondering what wick I should use tonight for my testers. I'll throw in some LX wicks I haven't tested with those in a while. My recent testings in half jars I have been getting way too big of a melt pool and jars are getting way too hot in under an hour.  Which is a bummer because on my wickless testing I did not see those issues. Especially the jar getting too hot otherwise I would not have re-tested. 

[Marisa11]

On 12/17/2020 at 2:16 PM, CatoftheCanals said:

Thanks! I'll keep this in mind for my testing. The green candle actually had a full melt pool several burns in but the darn flame was high and throwing soot early in the burn.

 

I tried using Stearic Acid (vegetable based) to calm the flame (hope my internet research was correct) and it did, but now I'm concerned the melt pool won't be as big. Testing them now so we will see.

 

 

 

 

I am hoping that adding stearic will help calm the flames down so that my jars don't get too hot. did you find a significant change in the jar temps?

[TallTayl]

All stearic has ever done in my coconut candles is kill Ht. 

[NightLight]

You know I have t tried this wax but me thinks it could benefit from only using it in certain types of containers.

shorter containers instead of the standard taller. Everyone has trouble wick 

in this wax.  Not all wax is good in taller jars etc.

[CatoftheCanals]

So I added 1/4 tsp of Stearic to 1 pound of coco-apricot wax. The first burn the flame was tame and beautiful. The next few it was a little tall, but HT was great. I took the advice of several folks here and didn't judge the melt pool on the first burn and by the end of burn 3 I had a full melt pool. My tins never got too hot either. I could always handle them with my hands without being burned. I should have tested with my infrared thermometer but forgot, I just touched them lightly with my hands and they were okay.

 

I haven't tried my glass containers yet as I'm waiting for wicks since the opening is smaller than my tins. Two orders came in and were missing my smaller wicks (how annoying!) but will report back. Still hoping to control the flames but they are considered "normal" based on ECO 14 on this chart so I'm not sure what to do about it. 

 

All my containers are kinda short so haven't tested in large containers. I am only currently testing 4 oz and 8 oz tins as well as 4 oz and 9 oz jelly jars. But all my HTs are pretty awesome. My CT was weak at first but letting them sit a day made it pretty strong.

[CatoftheCanals]

Oh and I didn't buy my wax from Northwood since they were sold out but their site does say - 

 

"We suggest our Ribbon Candle Wicks , CottonWood,  or Eco Wicks with coconut wax. Wood wicks burn too hot and are generally not a good fit with this wax."

 

So I ordered some CottonWood wicks to try. It says it creates a wider melt pool with a smaller flame due to it's shape, so potentially this could solve the high flame issue that seems common with coconut. I'll do a side by side test with those and my ECO wicks and see which is better.

[CatoftheCanals]

On 12/17/2020 at 7:39 PM, NightLight said:

Ecos I would ditch not enough sizes to fine tune candles.

CD wicks burn very hot and high in soft waxes, that’s why you you should try LX.

 

I'll try this as well. It definitely seems like it needs something between ECO 12 and 14. Maybe I can fine tune it with LX. I have so many wicks coming haha. So lots of testing to do once they get here.

[NightLight]

Here’s what you need to do. To really fine tune a candle formula you need to do it by percentages to be accurate.

Trust me on this. By percentage and weight with additives no by tsp. 
 

[TallTayl]

Watch cottonwoods closely.  If not sized well the flames grow and can get pretty scary out of control during a burn.

 

ribbon wicks, don’t get me started.  🤭

[moomin3]

On 12/15/2020 at 1:39 PM, CatoftheCanals said:

Hi everyone! I'm new here and relatively new to candle making.

 

I recently switched from soy to coconut apricot wax as I am trying to make colored candles and was struggling with the aesthetic of colored soy. So far I love this wax. It's beautiful, melts nicely, can pour hot, easy to use and looks amazing pre and post burn. 

 

The problem I'm having is with the wicks. I was never able to get a properly wicked soy candle either so its really demoralizing. I'll list below what I've tried and their results. Any advice or suggestions appreciated!

 

 

I can really empathize. I also moved on from 464 to coconut83 and blends before I had felt I truly understood wicking for soy, and that sure was an unnecessary headache. I've been struggling like a lot of people to make coconut 83 work well for me. I am a soy person these days again due to local availability and simplicity and feel like a rarity since everyone is going cuckoo for coconut.

 

Anyways, I'm here to recommend CDN wicks if you have not yet tried them! Granted I don't use coco apricot, but...they burn cooler. Candle Cocoon and Sixteen Seventeen have them in stock. The CDN4 is working great for me in a 2.5" straight jar. I like buying from Candle Cocoon because she uses 12" wicks you can easily re-tab and her shipping is usually same day. Also the fragrance oils are amazing but that's another story. I promise I came to just recommend CDN wicks! 

 

Like most, I fell victim to a lot of "I found the BEST WICKS!!!" posts and would just buy whatever people said but now my wick graveyard is huge (are you looking for anything in particular?? I MAY HAVE IT!). I realized my favorite wicks to use for both 464 and coconut 83 (neither using additives/dyes) are the CD series. I started with them in my real novice days and while they are not perfect they have meshed well with the way my brain works when it comes to sizing wicks for candles. Does that make any sense?! LX, Premier, RRD, even HTP I get so confused on and I'm always hunting down what I think may be the "equivalent to a CD6" in another series. I feel like my brain did a mother-duck association to CD and won't let go. I have also never been successful using any ECO wick even in soy. 

 

I have to say that CDN has been great so far. They curl less than CD, so a 30 degree angle than a 90, and the scent throw has been impressive. Using both CD and CDN allow you to dial in those in-between sizes. Here's a blurb from Candle Cocoon: 

 

"CDN wicks were invented in Germany for use in steric acid candles. They are the same size as corresponding CD wicks but they are soaked in a different finishing solution that helps to neutralize the acidic properties of natural candles. You may find that a CDN will burn out an inch further then its regular CD counter part. For instance, the CD18 will burn out to about 3" in EL soy container with Vanilla Voodoo but a CDN18 will burn 4" in diameter in the EL soy container!!!! Due to increased efficiency in burning CDN wicks may burn cleaner in natural waxes.12 inches long make these CD wicks good for pillars, votives or containers. Wicks can be cut to make additional wicks - for jars, votives or tealights - and save money. All CD wicks come pre-tabbed on one end. If you are cut to make smaller wicks you will need more tabs. Additional Wick tabs may be purchased separately."

 

[Kat63]

Hello, I started using this wax and tried multiple wicks, I am using a 2.5” jar and using  HTP 73 and it burns perfectly. Good scent throw.

[Tylea]

Have you tried HTP?  I am just playing around with this wax.  Have been using 464 for years with eco wicks.  I switched to CD wicks for great results.  This new wax I have used HTP 104 & 105as recommended!!  I am using wax with htp104, 105 good results bad glass adhesion...all candles 2.5-3.5 inch.....have been looking for days for other reviews????  Any Ideas People?

[TallTayl]

21 hours ago, Tylea said:

Have you tried HTP?  I am just playing around with this wax.  Have been using 464 for years with eco wicks.  I switched to CD wicks for great results.  This new wax I have used HTP 104 & 105as recommended!!  I am using wax with htp104, 105 good results bad glass adhesion...all candles 2.5-3.5 inch.....have been looking for days for other reviews????  Any Ideas People?

For 2.5” 9oz jars in that wax I use premier 740, 745 or 850 depending on the fragrance. CDN 5, cdn6 have worked well in some instances too.