Do candle customers care as much about bouncing flame?

[lisamrtr]

I can’t even remember what it was like to just be a regular candle consumer and not maker and obviously watch my candles obsessing over the smallest things like some mushrooming, exact measures of melt pool and the flame!! Some of my flames bounce around for periods of time but without any soot. I use freedom wax with 8.5% fragrance in container jars. 
 

Do you find customers even care about something like this?? I really want to start selling my candles but I feel like if I wait for the ultimate perfect one that day will never come! 
 

How acceptable is flickering/dancing flames in container jars? 

[BusyBee]

4 hours ago, lisamrtr said:

I can’t even remember what it was like to just be a regular candle consumer and not maker and obviously watch my candles obsessing over the smallest things like some mushrooming, exact measures of melt pool and the flame!! Some of my flames bounce around for periods of time but without any soot. I use freedom wax with 8.5% fragrance in container jars. 
 

Do you find customers even care about something like this?? I really want to start selling my candles but I feel like if I wait for the ultimate perfect one that day will never come! 
 

How acceptable is flickering/dancing flames in container jars? 

Flickering and dancing flame can be caused by several reasons.

1.       Not having constant fuel flow in the wick will cause flickering and soot. (bad capillary action):  Right wick and right mixtures (waxex, FOs, additives, dye, etc.) can fix this problem.

2.       Wick being too long will cause flickering and soot.:  Self-trimming wick will fix this problem, but I find that it is hard to find real self-trimming wick.

3.       Draft will cause dancing flame and soot. (air flow in the room):  There is not much we can do but to move the candle to other location.  As long as it does not produce soot in the draft, this should be acceptable.  Right wick would not produce soot in the draft.

4.       Convection will cause dancing flame. (air flow in the container):  Most (if not all) of deep and narrow container will have strong air flows inside the jar due to convection, and it will cause the flame to dance around when it goes down to about 1/3 remaining of container.  You can eliminate this problem by choosing to go with wider and shallow containers.  But then, it is not easy to find the single wick that works in wider container.  I guess this kind of dancing flame is very normal thing, but we need to make sure that flame does not hit the container when flame dances around.  Don’t forget that many regular consumers do not trim their wicks, and flame could be bigger than what you would want to expect to be.  And if it is hard to reach deep narrow containers, then the chance of them trimming wick is almost zero.  Once again, self-trimming wick could solve this problem.

*It appears to me that #1, 2 & 3 are not your problems since you are telling that there is no soot. 

 

You are right about we will never create that the ultimate perfect one!  We will have to decide what is acceptable and what is not.  I guess you are on the right track. 

*Don’t forget that safety should come first over performance when you choose!

[TallTayl]

Every candle I have ever burned has a dancy flame at some point. It is simple convection in a container. 

[ErronB]

If it's bouncing around I don't care, but if it's doing it to the point where the flame is almost pulsing and you can see black smoke, that's when I blow it out and rip the wick out.

[lisamrtr]

Thanks for your input! There are threads on here that make it sound like it’s completely unacceptable but with the air currents so different within a container candle, I don’t see how it’s possible for candles to burn all the way down without dancing flames. 
 

But yes I agree, as long as there’s no excessive black smoke I would consider this okay. 
 

I just started selling my candles yesterday and completely sold out! So I guess we’ll see what the public has to say - if they even notice or care as much as a crazy candle maker (me) hahah

[TallTayl]

3 hours ago, lisamrtr said:

Thanks for your input! There are threads on here that make it sound like it’s completely unacceptable but with the air currents so different within a container candle, I don’t see how it’s possible for candles to burn all the way down without dancing flames. 
 

But yes I agree, as long as there’s no excessive black smoke I would consider this okay. 
 

I just started selling my candles yesterday and completely sold out! So I guess we’ll see what the public has to say - if they even notice or care as much as a crazy candle maker (me) hahah

Despite what many candle makers claim, most people light a candle and walk away.  Only chandlers sit and watch every little detail about the candle. Customers trust we know what we are doing to not have it catch fire or set their home on fire, so they don’t set timers or watch the wick length like hawks.

[karinz40]

I have a 8 oz tin that is about 1/4 from the bottom burning.  The wax is all melted and I can seethe wick tetal thing. (can't think of what you call it now) but the flame is dancying a lot LX18 in this container,  3 inch wide tin.  Thre is no soot just strong dance.  It is on my small bathroom.  The heat in the hoise is on but I don't feel a draft.  Is this normal to dance like that atthe end?   And what is an acceptable hight for it.  It has burned well the entire time.  

 

 

[lisamrtr]

39 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Despite what many candle makers claim, most people light a candle and walk away.  Only chandlers sit and watch every little detail about the candle. Customers trust we know what we are doing to not have it catch fire or set their home on fire, so they don’t set timers or watch the wick length like hawks.

This is my thoughts exactly!!! Nobody will sit and watch the flames and document their every move and not burning houses down is probably a more top priority to customers than the flame of a candle just acting like....the flame of a candle!

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, karinz40 said:

I have a 8 oz tin that is about 1/4 from the bottom burning.  The wax is all melted and I can seethe wick tetal thing. (can't think of what you call it now) but the flame is dancying a lot LX18 in this container,  3 inch wide tin.  Thre is no soot just strong dance.  It is on my small bathroom.  The heat in the hoise is on but I don't feel a draft.  Is this normal to dance like that atthe end?   And what is an acceptable hight for it.  It has burned well the entire time.  

 

 

If your container is not too hot (170*F or above) the last bit of a tin will nearly always be completely melted.  The wick tab will often be visible during normal burns for the last 1/3 or so of a tin.
 

I just like to make sure my wick tab necks are at least 6mm to keep the last hour from getting dangerously hot. 3mm are out there that get wicked hot at the end. 3mm necks are IMO suitable only for tea lights. Most of the late burn candle fires I’ve seen recently seem to have short necked tabs, usually in addition to much too much wick for the job.

 

the 9mm neck heights (and a couple places have longer than 9 standard) are a bit too tall IMO.  They  leave a good 1/2” of unused wax typically which is well within safety guidelines on the sticker but a bit too much of an “emergency brake” for most situations. 

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, lisamrtr said:

This is my thoughts exactly!!! Nobody will sit and watch the flames and document their every move and not burning houses down is probably a more top priority to customers than the flame of a candle just acting like....the flame of a candle!

Yes. First thing most customers care about is how it smells, then if it appears safe. 

[karinz40]

So the wick tab in my  8 oz tin is from flaming and says 20x 6 mm. I put a piece of cut LX 18 in this after using most of it for other candles.

The candle burned well untill  1/4/ from end,  Then I could see clearly to bottome eith dancing fla,e about 1 inch or so high.  So you think this is ok?  Myself I would blow it out at that point  and consider the candle done but  thats just me

[karinz40]

I'm using 4630 for my tins.  What about a Break wax like a tealite or something on the wick when making the initial candle to help slow the last of the burn.  Does that make sense?

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, karinz40 said:

I'm using 4630 for my tins.  What about a Break wax like a tealite or something on the wick when making the initial candle to help slow the last of the burn.  Does that make sense?

That’s what I do in tall glass containers and it works well.  As does a shallow layer of a harder to burn wax at the bottom if the line between different waxes does not matter

[karinz40]

Thank.  I have some tea litees from the dollar store I will try

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, karinz40 said:

Thank.  I have some tea litees from the dollar store I will try

They may or may not burn as a brake if they are easy-to-burn paraffin.  I use old 444 or C3 that didn’t burn well as my brake. Rather than let the cases mock me I used them to my advantage. 

[karinz40]

I have some 464 left from experimentsing.  Would that work you think?  A thin layer?

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, karinz40 said:

I have some 464 left from experimentsing.  Would that work you think?  A thin layer?

There’s one way to find out for sure! I would definitely try it if you have it 

[karinz40]

On 12/5/2020 at 12:02 PM, TallTayl said:

That’s what I do in tall glass containers and it works well.  As does a shallow layer of a harder to burn wax at the bottom if the line between different waxes does not matter

HOW SHALLOW?

[TallTayl]

6 minutes ago, karinz40 said:

HOW SHALLOW?

1/4-1/2 inch depending on the wick, wick tab neck height and how "too hot" it is.

[Laura C]

On 12/5/2020 at 7:32 AM, lisamrtr said:

I just started selling my candles yesterday and completely sold out! So I guess we’ll see what the public has to say - if they even notice or care as much as a crazy candle maker (me) hahah

 

Hey @lisamrtr, welcome to the candle club and congratulations on your sales, that's great! 🎉🥳

From the date of your post it looks like those were Christmas sales

 

I have a few questions, don't feel pressured to answer them but if you'd like to share your steps to success then we'd love to hear them. Thanks.

Were you selling online?

Were you selling at a local Christmas market?

What part of the country are you in?

Did you advertise your candles, in-person or online?

If there were other candle sellers there, what made you stand out, what made people buy your candles instead of the others?

Do you have good branding and packaging that stands out?

What do you think made you successful?

What was your sales strategy?

Have you defined your target market?

Edited January 24, 2021 by Laura C