Somewhat surprising cure test results

[Forrest]

Two months ago I poured two 8oz tins with 6006 wax and 51 zinc wicks. I tested the first one after two weeks and the second one yesterday, at two months. Unfortunately I only got data for the second candle for 3 hours. There was an emergency and the candle burned for an unknown number of hours before I got back to it so comparative test results are not possible beyond three hours. But the results I did get are a bit shocking. The test were done in the same room and  temperature, humidity, and airflow should have been very close to the same, so to the best of my ability I had isolated the difference to a single variable, which was cure time. The two main measurements I took were MP width and weight, from which I calculated burn rate.  Over three hours the two week candle burned 10 grams of wax while the two month candle burned 13 grams. The difference in MP was the most surprising. The first candle reached a FMP by the two hour mark while the second candle had not quite reached that at three hours. So while the first candle was clearly over-wicked, it appears that an extra six weeks of cure time solved that problem. Now before TT brings this up I have to say that the one variable I didn’t take into account was wick length. I won’t make that mistake again. From my job I have some knowledge of testing procedures and what it takes to validate a test so I can say with some confidence that you shouldn’t draw any conclusions based on this one test, but it should give you something to think about.     

 

Any good peer reviewed journal article that reports test results gives some sort of conclusion or recommendation, so I’ll do the same. Given these results it would be best if you estimated the length of time it will normally be between when you make a candle and when you sell it and give your test candles that much cure time. The other thing a good peer reviewed journal article does is recommend what needs to happen next. I need to do some side by side testing on wick length and repeat the previous test using identical wick lengths.

[candlesinflorida]

Makes sense.

[bfroberts]

I've said all along that 6006 produces a different burn depending on the length of cure. No one believes me, but I'm 100% certain of this, at least in my application/environment/whatever.  I make cases of candles at one time, and they go into storage until I need to restock my shelves.  Once they make it to the shelves, we burn something from that case.  So I have tested my candles at varying cure times, from 1 day to 2 years, maybe longer.  The sweet spot seems to happen sometime between 1-2 months.  That seems to be where the candle has pretty much reached it's end game, so to speak.  Even at that, I think it depends on environmental factors as well.  I've poured enough at this point to kinda know what I'm gonna get at full cure by how it burns around the 2 week mark, and that's when I try to test anything new in 6006.

Also, soot and mushrooming can sometimes be significantly reduced after a long cure, especially with pesky FO's, which is another benefit of allowing such a long cure.  Basically, after a longer cure, 6006 just burns better.

For what it's worth, I wick most of my 8oz tins with 51z.  Some even require 60z.  I always wick for the long cure.

Thank you for sharing your results.

[Forrest]

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

I've said all along that 6006 produces a different burn depending on the length of cure. No one believes me, but I'm 100% certain of this, at least in my application/environment/whatever.  I make cases of candles at one time, and they go into storage until I need to restock my shelves.  Once they make it to the shelves, we burn something from that case.  So I have tested my candles at varying cure times, from 1 day to 2 years, maybe longer.  The sweet spot seems to happen sometime between 1-2 months.  That seems to be where the candle has pretty much reached it's end game, so to speak.  Even at that, I think it depends on environmental factors as well.  I've poured enough at this point to kinda know what I'm gonna get at full cure by how it burns around the 2 week mark, and that's when I try to test anything new in 6006.

Also, soot and mushrooming can sometimes be significantly reduced after a long cure, especially with pesky FO's, which is another benefit of allowing such a long cure.  Basically, after a longer cure, 6006 just burns better.

For what it's worth, I wick most of my 8oz tins with 51z.  Some even require 60z.  I always wick for the long cure.

Thank you for sharing your results.

When I tested at two weeks I tried a CD6, CD8 and the 51Z at 80 degrees and there was almost no difference in the two CDs, but both worked well and the 51Z was too hot. Given the results of yesterday’s test I think the CDs would be too small after a couple of months. I’ve got some 464 that I could test for the price of a wick, so I think I’ll test both waxes.

I just made 2 tins with CDs for my sister in law; I guess I better tell her to burn them soon.  

[Trappeur]

You'll be a scientist by the time your done with all these temperature controlled testings your doing Forest!

 

Trappeur

[Forrest]

4 hours ago, Trappeur said:

You'll be a scientist by the time your done with all these temperature controlled testings your doing Forest!

 

Trappeur

In my 28 years at NASA I've been involved in a lot of testing in one capacity or another. Candle testing just gives me the opportunity to put that knowledge to use. 

[TallTayl]

On 8/11/2018 at 12:33 PM, bfroberts said:

I've said all along that 6006 produces a different burn depending on the length of cure. No one believes me, but I'm 100% certain of this, at least in my application/environment/whatever.  I make cases of candles at one time, and they go into storage until I need to restock my shelves.  Once they make it to the shelves, we burn something from that case.  So I have tested my candles at varying cure times, from 1 day to 2 years, maybe longer.  The sweet spot seems to happen sometime between 1-2 months.  That seems to be where the candle has pretty much reached it's end game, so to speak.  Even at that, I think it depends on environmental factors as well.  I've poured enough at this point to kinda know what I'm gonna get at full cure by how it burns around the 2 week mark, and that's when I try to test anything new in 6006.

Also, soot and mushrooming can sometimes be significantly reduced after a long cure, especially with pesky FO's, which is another benefit of allowing such a long cure.  Basically, after a longer cure, 6006 just burns better.

For what it's worth, I wick most of my 8oz tins with 51z.  Some even require 60z.  I always wick for the long cure.

Thank you for sharing your results.

I am in 100% agreement with you. There is no sub for time when it comes to wax.

 

Here’s the same scent made during three different batches. The same wax lots, procedure melt/mix/pour temps, etc. ONLY time makes these able to withstand extreme heat and humidity fluctuations at my outdoor Faire. The one on the right will perform the same as the other two in another week, two at most. They burn almost one wick size different until about the two week mark. 

 

Polymorphic waxes need time to stabilize their crystal structure, even when blended with other waxes. At the atomic level, those soy molecules are vibrating like crazy at first. They settle down quite a bit as they find their molecular places.  The freshly made soy candles just can’t withstand changes to temp and barometric pressure the same way well cured ones can. Thank goodness I record lot numbers on each and every candle.

[Trappeur]

If only I could understand a word what you just said I might be able to comprehend some of this.....Science was not a subject in school I liked and/or could grasp onto anything and therefore never got good grades....Mostly got D's on my report card....  😖

 

Trappeur

[TallTayl]

7 minutes ago, Trappeur said:

If only I could understand a word what you just said I might be able to comprehend some of this.....Science was not a subject in school I liked and/or could grasp onto anything and therefore never got good grades....Mostly got D's on my report card....  😖

 

Trappeur

Well, if not cured enough, soy wax can make your candles burn different and squeeze out fragrance with heat changes (like at markets or in the mail while being shipped to a customer. The two cured candles on the left are stable. The one on the right is newer and not stable.

 

The one on the right needs a smaller wick than the two on the left, at least for the next two weeks. If you do not cure your candles long enough before testing, you will likely get wrong test results.

 

If you ship an uncured candle during warm weather your customer can get a candle that looks like the one on the right. 

[Forrest]

On 8/13/2018 at 5:07 PM, Trappeur said:

If only I could understand a word what you just said I might be able to comprehend some of this.....Science was not a subject in school I liked and/or could grasp onto anything and therefore never got good grades....Mostly got D's on my report card....  😖

 

Trappeur

Well you get an A+ in candle making, which is really just applied chemistry, and art.

[Forrest]

On 8/13/2018 at 3:58 PM, TallTayl said:

I am in 100% agreement with you. There is no sub for time when it comes to wax.

 

Here’s the same scent made during three different batches. The same wax lots, procedure melt/mix/pour temps, etc. ONLY time makes these able to withstand extreme heat and humidity fluctuations at my outdoor Faire. The one on the right will perform the same as the other two in another week, two at most. They burn almost one wick size different until about the two week mark. 

Polymorphic waxes need time to stabilize their crystal structure, even when blended with other waxes. At the atomic level, those soy molecules are vibrating like crazy at first. They settle down quite a bit as they find their molecular places.  The freshly made soy candles just can’t withstand changes to temp and barometric pressure the same way well cured ones can. Thank goodness I record lot numbers on each and every candle.

The wizard of Wax has spoken, and provided visual aids.  So I Googled Polymorphic wax and it looks like there is some really good stuff on the internet, should make for interesting reading this weekend. What I'm still not understanding is why my burn rate was higher. For now I'm going with the wick length theory. More testing to come, by February I should be able to write a paper on the effects of time, temperature, and wick length in candles made with 6006 wax. No doubt they will discontinue making it next spring. 

[Laura C]

On 8/11/2018 at 11:05 PM, Forrest said:

In my 28 years at NASA I've been involved in a lot of testing in one capacity or another. Candle testing just gives me the opportunity to put that knowledge to use. 

Wow, NASA, that's cool @Forrest. Suppose you watched some up close rocket launches? Your profile pic makes sense. LOL

[Laura C]

I just don't see why the length of the wick would matter. With either one of them you would have trimmed them if they sooted or the flame grew too big. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

 

Just curious about something, were the wicks attached to their bases in the candles or did you by any chance cut off wick pieces and stick into the candles after they were made? There is a reason for this odd question. LOL.

[Laura C]

On 8/13/2018 at 4:58 PM, TallTayl said:

I am in 100% agreement with you. There is no sub for time when it comes to wax.

 

Here’s the same scent made during three different batches. The same wax lots, procedure melt/mix/pour temps, etc. ONLY time makes these able to withstand extreme heat and humidity fluctuations at my outdoor Faire. The one on the right will perform the same as the other two in another week, two at most. They burn almost one wick size different until about the two week mark. 

 

Polymorphic waxes need time to stabilize their crystal structure, even when blended with other waxes. At the atomic level, those soy molecules are vibrating like crazy at first. They settle down quite a bit as they find their molecular places.  The freshly made soy candles just can’t withstand changes to temp and barometric pressure the same way well cured ones can. Thank goodness I record lot numbers on each and every candle.

Neat @TallTayl. Thanks for also sharing your experiment and knowledge.

[TallTayl]

3 minutes ago, Laura C said:

I just don't see why the length of the wick would matter. With either one of them you would have trimmed them if they sooted or the flame grew too big. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

 

Just curious about something, were the wicks attached to their bases in the candles or did you by any chance cut off wick pieces and stick into the candles after they were made? There is a reason for this odd question. LOL.

The difference is huge and easy to prove. Take 4 candles made from the same batch. Trim one wick to 1/8”, one to 1/4”, one to 1/2” and one to 3/4”. They will burn like 4 entirely different candles. 

[Laura C]

Oh geez, I have not considered that cure time could play such a role in the performance of your candle's wick size. This seems impossible as if there are not enough hurdles to jump over as it is. Is this the case with all wax types or just soy or just the 6006 soy paraffin blend? Dear, oh dear, dear. LOL

[Laura C]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The difference is huge and easy to prove. Take 4 candles made from the same batch. Trim one wick to 1/8”, one to 1/4”, one to 1/2” and one to 3/4”. They will burn like 4 entirely different candles. 

Ok, that seems obvious, they're different heights and producing different amounts of heat. I guess what I'm getting at is I don't see how that situation is avoidable. You tell customers to trim wicks to the standard 1/4" but you know they don't always do that. 😮