Petrolatum additive?

[Venetti]

I’ve tried researching this and couldn’t find a direct answer. (Maybe I’m a terrible researcher.)

 

Long version ;

I Purchased a 2lb sample of IGI 4630 a while back from VCS. I fell in love with this wax because of its consistency and burn quality. After I ran out, I bought a 10lb slab from CS. It was the same consistency as the 2lbs I’d used before. 

 

A few weeks ago, I bought 3-10lb slabs of 4630 from BA (I had a good discount and if I wanted to physically pick up my order, I would only have to drive an hour.)

 

It was shipped via mail, and when it arrived I was very disappointed. The slabs were much harder And not sticky whatsoever. At first I thought maybe they just shipped me the wrong wax. I emailed them to return the 30lbs but that ended up going nowhere. 

 

Then, I decided to purchase slabs from CS. 30 more pounds later... I recieved the same exact slabs I got from BA. 😑

 

After emailling both companies, I’ve gotten nothing. BA just keeps sending automated emails and CS hasn’t replied. Also, sending the wax back would probably be useless as the shipping would cost as much as my refund. 

 

My instincts tell me I need to add some petrolatum. 

 

TLDR;short version:

My question is this. Is the petrolatum you purchase online the same as vasoline?

(Ex. Candlewic.com petrolatum versus vasoline jelly from Walmart)

Is it the same thing or does one have something the other doesn’t?

 

thank you all sincerely!

[TallTayl]

Have you tried burning either as-is?

 

Excerpt From https://www.truthinaging.com/review/vaseline-petroleum-jelly-uses-and-safety

 

"According to Unilever, petroleum jelly - the only ingredient in your old-fashioned jar of Vaseline - was discovered by a New York chemist in the 1860s and first marketed to the public as Vaseline Petroleum Jelly in 1870. Petroleum jelly, also known as petrolatum or soft paraffin, is a mix of mineral oils, paraffin, and microcrystalline waxes."

[candlecraftshop]

Hi TT, I've been admiring your knowledge from afar, coming out of the closet now :)) 

 

So I'm also on a quest to understand the chemistry behind additives and candle making in general, and the above info you shared is making me want to go grab a tub of vaseline and add it to my blend of cocosoy and IGI 6006 to see what would happen. Thinking of comparing 1% and 2% simultaneously - what do you think? Do you know if it's safe to burn? I'm trying to find microcrystalline wax but it's really expensive! Thanks in advance!

[TallTayl]

If you get the Vaseline with no additives it should be fine to burn it low levels. 
 

The reason for additives is to improve shortcomings of a wax. I have tried white petrolatum in a plain soy with success. The reason I tried it was to improve the melt performance and slow the inevitable drying of soy wax that has no paraffin in it. I do not love premade candle blends so building from the ground up has been a great learning experience. 
 

Without knowing exactly what additives are already in your blend from 6006 and cocosoy it’s hard to say how petrolatum will help. Cocosoy waxes are so ambiguous in this new trend. 
 

it is always worth a test. If you have the time and materials definitely experiment and take great notes. 

[Forrest]

Could it have anything to do with the temperature? My waxes all get harder starting this time of year. If you like a softer wax 4627 is a good choice.

[candlecraftshop]

4 hours ago, TallTayl said:

If you get the Vaseline with no additives it should be fine to burn it low levels. 
 

The reason for additives is to improve shortcomings of a wax. I have tried white petrolatum in a plain soy with success. The reason I tried it was to improve the melt performance and slow the inevitable drying of soy wax that has no paraffin in it. I do not love premade candle blends so building from the ground up has been a great learning experience. 
 

Without knowing exactly what additives are already in your blend from 6006 and cocosoy it’s hard to say how petrolatum will help. Cocosoy waxes are so ambiguous in this new trend. 
 

it is always worth a test. If you have the time and materials definitely experiment and take great notes. 

Yeah I hated the fussiness of pure soy, and didn't like the brittleness of paraffin, and after many combos, I've settled on 1:3 of cocosoy and 6006. Initial candle testing with tins showed lots of promise, great HT, smooth tops. Having trouble wicking a glass 3in diam tumbler though, going between HTP (83, 93, 105) and Premier (755 so far, might go up or down depending on the fragrance and how it's been behaving). Premier looks so promising, but it's still sooting, so I might have to wick down. I tried adding vybar at 1% and 2% last night to 2 separate containers, and I might just start with 0.5% of vaseline and see how that behaves. 

 

I'm thinking of making my own blend, since I will be getting pure coco wax in the next 2 wks. Tips on 100%soy and 100%paraffin?

 

This is all so exciting, so happy to find a forum who thinks about the chemistry of these things, and love experimenting! 

[Kerven]

If using the over the counter Vaseline, make sure it only contains white petrolatum. Some of the others - Deep Moisture, for example - contain inactive ingredients such as: stearic acid, glycerin, water, cetyl alcohol, caprylic/capric triglycerides, titanium dioxide, etc.

[TallTayl]

4 hours ago, candlecraftshop said:

Yeah I hated the fussiness of pure soy, and didn't like the brittleness of paraffin, and after many combos, I've settled on 1:3 of cocosoy and 6006. Initial candle testing with tins showed lots of promise, great HT, smooth tops. Having trouble wicking a glass 3in diam tumbler though, going between HTP (83, 93, 105) and Premier (755 so far, might go up or down depending on the fragrance and how it's been behaving). Premier looks so promising, but it's still sooting, so I might have to wick down. I tried adding vybar at 1% and 2% last night to 2 separate containers, and I might just start with 0.5% of vaseline and see how that behaves. 

 

I'm thinking of making my own blend, since I will be getting pure coco wax in the next 2 wks. Tips on 100%soy and 100%paraffin?

 

This is all so exciting, so happy to find a forum who thinks about the chemistry of these things, and love experimenting! 

When you say “pure soy” and “pure  paraffin” and “pure coconut” I’m not sure what you mean, since I interpret things differently than most. 

 

Most wick tests at the manufacturer test in paraffin of a certain blend, 1245 comes to mind, though I have no idea what that is. retail paraffin blends have additives, such as vybar and other trade secrets to make them perform. A pure paraffin could be many different fractions from refining the paraffin, such as oil or some other solid. 
 

Pure soy, to me, is something without any typical additives. Midwest Soy is my all time favorite to build a soy base from. GB 415 used to be good, but changed too much back in 2016 to work with. Speaking of GB waxes, 444 and 464 have “soy based additives” to change the feeling and performance. As does C3. All are called pure soy, but each is very different in performance. I do not like any of these for basing my blends on because a) they change too much from lot to lot, and b ) are not great even when they are mixed well. All of them soot even without additives/fo  to some degree.

 

and coconut... don’t get me started.  Some, loke 6570/6046 are some kind of paraffin with a dab of coconut something to cash in on the craze. Coco83, one of the most common is different from coco apricot, coco brew, etc.  not one is majorly coconut.  It is so frustrating. 

[candlecraftshop]

14 hours ago, TallTayl said:

When you say “pure soy” and “pure  paraffin” and “pure coconut” I’m not sure what you mean, since I interpret things differently than most. 

 

Most wick tests at the manufacturer test in paraffin of a certain blend, 1245 comes to mind, though I have no idea what that is. retail paraffin blends have additives, such as vybar and other trade secrets to make them perform. A pure paraffin could be many different fractions from refining the paraffin, such as oil or some other solid. 
 

Pure soy, to me, is something without any typical additives. Midwest Soy is my all time favorite to build a soy base from. GB 415 used to be good, but changed too much back in 2016 to work with. Speaking of GB waxes, 444 and 464 have “soy based additives” to change the feeling and performance. As does C3. All are called pure soy, but each is very different in performance. I do not like any of these for basing my blends on because a) they change too much from lot to lot, and b ) are not great even when they are mixed well. All of them soot even without additives/fo  to some degree.

 

and coconut... don’t get me started.  Some, loke 6570/6046 are some kind of paraffin with a dab of coconut something to cash in on the craze. Coco83, one of the most common is different from coco apricot, coco brew, etc.  not one is majorly coconut.  It is so frustrating. 

 

Ah sorry for not clarifying - I meant "pure" as in no/minimal amount of additives. I wonder if all the issues of quality varies because chandlers dont mix the wax all over again once it's heated? 

 

My 6006 might already have vybar so me adding 1-2% will just bind with the FO, resulting in less throw. 

 

I was thinking of using base waxes - thinking of 415, whatever coco wax shipment Im getting from China, and something that IGI makes, since they are local to me (Toronto!). 

 

OR just be content with IGI 6006 and add base soy and base coconut to play with. I basically want mostly soy, then paraffin, then coconut - a lot more research is needed though for optimal ratios and whatnot - mainly for containers and working with htp/premier/zinc which I have on hand. What does coco wax bring to the table? soy? paraffin? What does each individual wax prefer w/r/t temps/mixing/scents/wicks? My brain spins when I try to think of all the variables to account for in pursuit of the perfect candle system!

 

I love the experimentation process, but the monetary hemorrhage is uncomfortable. 

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, candlecraftshop said:

 

Ah sorry for not clarifying - I meant "pure" as in no/minimal amount of additives. I wonder if all the issues of quality varies because chandlers dont mix the wax all over again once it's heated? 
That is 100% a contributing factor, yes.  Or mix with a Chop stick a couple of times and call it good. 

 

My 6006 might already have vybar so me adding 1-2% will just bind with the FO, resulting in less throw. 
Correct. I am no expert on the 6006 formulation, but am confident a vybar like polymer is already in it to hold components together.  More vybar/polyboost/microwaxes/etc is like adding extra glue. Sure it can accept more FO but At a cost to HT since it is cemented into place.

 

I was thinking of using base waxes - thinking of 415, whatever coco wax shipment Im getting from China, and something that IGI makes, since they are local to me (Toronto!). 
May I recommend doing minimal variable tests per iteration? Change one variable at a time to identify what each piece brings to the party? 415 might work for this.  It is not my personal favorite for many reasons, but I you can get it reasonably, it is worth the learning experience. 

 

OR just be content with IGI 6006 and add base soy and base coconut to play with.

Crowds of people are content with 6006 once they learn it. As for “base coconut” that would be coconut oil 72 (melts at 72* and has varying levels of moisture depending on the batch) and coconut oil92 (sold as coconut 1 from Cargill/naturewax, but the same as any restaurant supply or soaping oil supply.). Not sure what it would add to an already soft 6006, but who knows?

 

I basically want mostly soy, then paraffin, then coconut - a lot more research is needed though for optimal ratios and whatnot - mainly for containers

That is kind of like saying my favorite colors are blue then purple then pink.  Each of the choices has shades that are very different from blend to blend of the raw materials.  Paraffin, for instance, can be liquid (mineral oils), like vaseline (4627), or rubbery (4786) or mottling (think mccalls/yankee). The journey will be enlightening, with knowledge as the reward. 

 

 

and working with htp/premier/zinc which I have on hand.

With Covid supply chain shortages, test every new batch of wicks you get.  Some sizes of HTP, for instance, have changed and only recently have been announced - after supply was at resellers and purchased by end users. 

 

What does coco wax bring to the table? soy? paraffin? What does each individual wax prefer w/r/t temps/mixing/scents/wicks? My brain spins when I try to think of all the variables to account for in pursuit of the perfect candle system!

This is a giant topic.  Every one has its own molecular structure,that can be improved or destabilized when out of balance.  Soy is polymorphic, meaning the molecules are irregularly formed an stacked. Think of rocks of different sizes with some sand in between.  It won’t hold up to much stress.  Soy is known to continue to morph with time and form feisty patters. It can “grow” like a cauliflower top, and dry out/crack. It’s why polymers, soy stabilizers, paraffin, etc is added.  It’s one saving grace is low cost, availability in the marketplace, good lobbying and slower burn since it is more challenging to suck up through wicks. 
Paraffins are more regularly shaped molecules, like ping pong balls that fall into a predictable pattern. It can fill gaps between soy grains to help it look pretty, shiny, and hold on to fragrance droplets more securely. It can help slow the soy from drying out too much and from swapping atoms with neighboring soy molecules to form unsightly grains. paraffin is inert and will remain stable for practically ever. You won’t need to worry about a paraffin going rancid since there is nothing much in there to oxidize. 

coconut is just another carbon based lipid that can do similar things as some paraffins, but without time tested stabilizers.  Coconut oil can and will spoil with time as oxidation happens naturally.  I am not sure too many of the new coconut crazy people understand how bad their waxes will smell once they do get to “rotting”. Ever smell an old can of crisco or bottle of cooking oil? Peeeeyoooo.

 

I love the experimentation process, but the monetary hemorrhage is uncomfortable. 
Friend, you are preaching to the choir.  I have stopped counting the $ since it is education. My accountant is still not impressed with my hard earned, expensive knowledge. My brain is a company asset, lol.  The super benefit is I can usually quickly adapt to market conditions without missing a beat, which is a true competitive advantage. It also makes my development line of business  (custom candles for private label) efficient. I can earn a living without having to schlep candles to hawk at fairs any more. Win/win.
 

enjoy the journey. 

This was a long discussion, my answers are in red bold within the quote.

[candlecraftshop]

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

This was a long discussion, my answers are in red bold within the quote.

Wow where have you been my whole (chandler) life? Ok, when I grow up, I want to be like you, TT. *much props*
 

The coconut wax for me is mostly a cultural thing - my family used to have a coconut grove back home (Philippines). I want to integrate to give a nod to my heritage. But hey, if it doesn’t work then it doesn’t work. I’m a soaper, and work a lot with CO72, and didn’t realize until now that coco wax is basically just the high temp CO. That means about a 2 yr shelf life right? Huh. Antioxidants should definitely be in the mix - something good to know! 
 

I’m very new to this compared to a lot of people, but I bring a voracious appetite for knowledge and love teaching and troubleshooting. What I know now and 2 months ago is light years apart😂 So many mistakes made. 
 

Anyway, I’m taking a wee break from my cocosoy and 6006 blend and seriously contemplating just sticking to 6006, since I found a reliable source for it. There’s just something about it that I don’t like - hence the mixing with cocosoy perfect blend (which I heard was mostly soy). I also find that I’m one of those people who get headaches with paraffin-heavy candles. That’s anecdotal for sure, it could just be from the FOs. 
 

I like the longevity of paraffin for sure, and also somewhere on facebook we were talking about how it was dinosaur-derived, which tickled me in the noodle. Do you have a favorite paraffin wax to play with, TT? 

[TallTayl]

36 minutes ago, candlecraftshop said:

Wow where have you been my whole (chandler) life? Ok, when I grow up, I want to be like you, TT. *much props*

have been right here waiting for you 😉. It is great to be here in a place surrounded with masterminds and beginners alike.  We all get a chance to think, share and grow, 
 

The coconut wax for me is mostly a cultural thing - my family used to have a coconut grove back home (Philippines). I want to integrate to give a nod to my heritage.
that’s awesome! Don’t let me talk you out of it.  There is a place for all fuels.  I am a ceramic artist (serial crafter) and want to make a few Olive oil lamps. It will take tinkering by put we all learn the pieces and they fit somewhere. 

 

But hey, if it doesn’t work then it doesn’t work.
It can work.  In fact several of my favorite blends use it. Coco83 when you can get it is nice to cut your teeth on and tweak with.  The biggest issues I have with it are typical of all waxes: inconsistency.  The biggest mistakes people make with it are typical also: overscenting and overwicking. Coconut waxes are more similar to decent paraffin and less like soy.

 

 

I’m a soaper, and work a lot with CO72, and didn’t realize until now that coco wax is basically just the high temp CO. That means about a 2 yr shelf life right?
same here! I use co92 in my soap now so I have one less thing to stock. Multitasking ingredients are the best.  Plus, coco72 has varied in moisture levels from my supplier on occasion.  Frustrating. What antioxidants would be applicable to coconut oils? Coco92 is partially hydrogenated and “should” have a better shelf life than coco76, no? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

Huh. Antioxidants should definitely be in the mix - something good to know! 
 

I’m very new to this compared to a lot of people, but I bring a voracious appetite for knowledge and love teaching and troubleshooting. What I know now and 2 months ago is light years apart😂 So many mistakes made. 

it is an investment in your chandling career.  Embrace it! Your quest to understand your medium will propel you forward quickly. 
 

Anyway, I’m taking a wee break from my cocosoy and 6006 blend and seriously contemplating just sticking to 6006, since I found a reliable source for it. There’s just something about it that I don’t like - hence the mixing with cocosoy perfect blend (which I heard was mostly soy). I also find that I’m one of those people who get headaches with paraffin-heavy candles. That’s anecdotal for sure, it could just be from the FOs. 
I am with you on that sentiment. I don’t love paraffins for many reasons.  None that make it a bad wax, I just don’t love it. I don’t think it is dangerous or anything like the soy lobby wants to make people think, I just think the blends out now are not great. 
 

 

I like the longevity of paraffin for sure, and also somewhere on facebook we were talking about how it was dinosaur-derived, which tickled me in the noodle. Do you have a favorite paraffin wax to play with, TT? 
I like 4786 for stabilizing some coconut blends, but have figured out other fuels to blend instead and love my product now 🤗

Once again, replies in red above. 🤗

[Marisa11]

On 10/28/2020 at 9:34 AM, candlecraftshop said:

Hi TT, I've been admiring your knowledge from afar, coming out of the closet now :)) 

 

So I'm also on a quest to understand the chemistry behind additives and candle making in general, and the above info you shared is making me want to go grab a tub of vaseline and add it to my blend of cocosoy and IGI 6006 to see what would happen. Thinking of comparing 1% and 2% simultaneously - what do you think? Do you know if it's safe to burn? I'm trying to find microcrystalline wax but it's really expensive! Thanks in advance!

I made a candle with 6006 mixed with coco apricot and got a killer HT in a small 1.5oz votive. I added the coconut to make the 6006 creamier and help with the sinkholes and adhesion. I didn’t stick with it because I wanted to just stick with one wax and not have to worry about getting it from different places. 

 

I just got some microcrystalline wax from Swans last weekend and was going to play with but for my wax melts. 

 

Instead of the Vaseline you can also try Crisco shortening. I think they suggest 1oz a lb to help with creaminess. That’s only what I have come across in my research though and haven’t tried it myself.

 

I have been on a huge additive kick myself have a base 130MP and 140MP paraffin to play with. So I feel like a scientist. 

[candlecraftshop]

20 hours ago, Marisa11 said:

I made a candle with 6006 mixed with coco apricot and got a killer HT in a small 1.5oz votive. I added the coconut to make the 6006 creamier and help with the sinkholes and adhesion. I didn’t stick with it because I wanted to just stick with one wax and not have to worry about getting it from different places. 
 

yeah coco apricot is so expensive, and after what TT said about it eventually going rancid, I’m turned off a bit. And yes I wish I could just be content with 6006 since IGI is literally made in my city. 

 

I just got some microcrystalline wax from Swans last weekend and was going to play with but for my wax melts. 
 

what would the micro do for waxmelts? Im not a big fan of wax melts for some reason, maybe because i cant get a decent ht from mine. 

 

Instead of the Vaseline you can also try Crisco shortening. I think they suggest 1oz a lb to help with creaminess. That’s only what I have come across in my research though and haven’t tried it myself.

will try the crisco, maybe. Don’t really wanna😂😂

 

20 hours ago, Marisa11 said:

 

I have been on a huge additive kick myself have a base 130MP and 140MP paraffin to play with. So I feel like a scientist. 
 

at what point can we call ourselves candle chemists? 🧐
 

 

[candlecraftshop]

21 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Once again, replies in red above. 🤗

Hah! Thanks again! Also a serial crafter here, getting into woodworking to mix with candle making (have access to a mill and fantabulous power tools, and a ton of black walnut). Also resin. And adding them all together. At this rate nobody can afford my pieces. Lol. Oh well. Next thing you know I’ll go buy me an alpaca farm and use alpaca wool for wicks 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

But back to candle science!

 

Do you find you like using stabilizers in your own blends? Or leverage current blends that already contain them? I agree on CO72 consistency, I have a giant bucket that’s untouched because I’ve shifted to candles 100% in the past couple of months. It feels different from the costco ones, etc. 
 

i also have some unused lard and tallow...mmm tallow candles. Wasn’t that a thing before?? Lol. 
 

Am I just too harsh on 6006? I just wanted a titch of paraffin so maybe I’ll just play with the 40kg of coco wax and make me some coco-ffin (more coco than paraffin so I renamed it; lol). I will probably still use a soy base of 415 - will have to suck up the fact that I have to order from 3 separate companies. Ugh. There are some aspects that I do like about soy. And I want them all to play together and get along together! 
 

Would the HTP series and Premier work with soy-coco-para blend? 
 

i tried coco apricot creme last night, and CT was kinda faint, and I still had adhesion issues when I looked this morning. So frustrating. 
 

but that’s just the day to day experimenting thing, I guess. FOs are such fickle mistresses - maybe I really should make a cap on the number of them in my harem😂