LCF Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Hi everyone! I have been a lurker here on the forum for months and have been using lots of advice to help us begin our candle adventure. We are typically a soap company, but we promised our customers we would have a small line of candles out before the holidays and we are determined to deliver. We have been doing an lot of testing and have decided on IGI 4630 or 4627 wax. We prefer the 4627, but they don't offer it in 10 pound slabs and we wanted to do each scent in batches of 10 pounds to try and streamline the process. We are using tins and the ones we like are 3" wide, by 2" tall. Unfortunately we have been striking out with wicks. We have tried everything and nothing is working the way we have read that it should. Fragrance is 10%, and we have tried CD and LX, and we haven't been able to get a test burn to consume almost the entire top of the candle. When it seems as though its burning right, we can look into the candle and see the tab on the bottom which means its burning too hot, correct? We just ordered some zinc core samples because IGI recommends them, but we were hoping to start production this week, but unfortunately we're delayed because of the wick issues. Does anyone have any advice or recommendations? We do like the LX wicks because they seem to not smoke or jump as much, but the latest LX we tried was the 30 and it works great at first, then starts jumping and sooting. Thanks in advance for advice! I look forward to being a member here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, LCF said: We are using tins and the ones we like are 3" wide, by 2" tall. ..... We do like the LX wicks because they seem to not smoke or jump as much, but the latest LX we tried was the 30 and it works great at first, then starts jumping and sooting. Hi & welcome ... According to my notes, an LX30 is a wick to be used for candles that are about an inch greater in diameter than the one you are describing. What other types of wicks and sizes do you have available to you right now for testing? I think you know you are really trying to accomplish quite a bit in a short amount of time, but it's not to say that with a highly concentrated effort that it can't be done. YET, I wouldn't try to hurry for "production" right now, I'd focus on making a safe and well-burning candle, you can get to the rest later, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thanks for writing Birdcharm. LX30 is where I ended up after none of the lower LX wicks created a burn pool wide enough in 3 hours of burning. I kept going up to see if I would find the right one because I was afraid of tunneling. While we aren't trying to rush, we have been experimenting for some time and still haven't found the right one. I forgot to mention we also tried premiers. Right now we have all size CD, Premier, and LX. I have some zing core on order which will hopefully be here tomorrow or Monday. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 For 4630, start with HTP 104 - and go up or down if necessary. That's what I use in status jars which have the same diameter. I haven't used 4627, so I can't help with that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thank you for the advice. I will buy a sample pack of HTP. None of the dealers recommend HTP which is why I didn't bother trying it. Something has to work with this wax! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, LCF said: Thank you for the advice. I will buy a sample pack of HTP. None of the dealers recommend HTP which is why I didn't bother trying it. Something has to work with this wax! HTP wicks are AWESOME in 4630. I mean, seriously. And I've tried a lot of wicks. I can't believe none of your suppliers recommended them. I thought they were the go-to wick for 4630. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah S Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I don't use tins, but I do use IGI 4630, and I really like HTPs with that wax. I agree with @bfroberts, start with the 104 for that diameter but be prepared with several sizes up or down. For my 2.75" jars I'll use anything from a 105 to a 73 depending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah S Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, bfroberts said: HTP wicks are AWESOME in 4630. I mean, seriously. And I've tried a lot of wicks. I can't believe none of your suppliers recommended them. I thought they were the go-to wick for 4630. Lol, you type faster than me! 😄 Totally agree, great wicks with this wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Tins are a different animal. If you wick for FMP on your first three hour burn (even second) it will likely be way, way, way too hot by the middle. As the candle burns down it creates a lot more hot air current and burns much hotter. By the bottom you are at risk of scorching furniture if overwicked. You want to make sure that even if someone forgets to extinguish it will make a safe candle during a power burn. Soft container waxes don't have a "memory" like harder pillar waxes. It will catch up as the burn continues. With 4630, 6% FO should be more than plenty if wicked properly. Too much scent and too much wick can easily create black smoke and soot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 I am going to order a sample set of HTP so that I may find the best one. TallTayl, you mention 6% and I am wondering if the throw will still be as strong without going higher? I am trying to make aromatherapy candles that have maximum scent and if I can accomplish the same thing with 6% I will do it. The last thing I want is a fire hazard. What can I do to get a FMP, without causing it to be way too hot in the middle? If I go down a size, won't it cause the MP to be too small? Thanks so much for all the great advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) I have been doing R&D with 4627 for a while and struggling with wicking. I discovered I was giving up way too early on a test burn. With this wax you need to burn it to the bottom to see how it performs through the whole candle. I use a 3” diameter 3” tall glass tumbler with an LX26 and have hang up to the middle of the candle (20-25 hours, four hours at a time). From the middle to the bottom, I don’t get the traditional edge-to-edge liquid melt pool. There is always about 1/8” of wax surrounding the melt pool but it continuously gets consumed as the candle burns to the bottom. The throw is still fantastic, zero black on the tumbler, and only slight mushrooming in the bottom third of the candle. I suggest trying an LX24 or 26, possibly smaller based on what @TallTayl said about tins. Don’t give up on it too early. Edited October 21, 2017 by NickS Grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 On 10/20/2017 at 7:19 PM, LCF said: I am going to order a sample set of HTP so that I may find the best one. TallTayl, you mention 6% and I am wondering if the throw will still be as strong without going higher? I am trying to make aromatherapy candles that have maximum scent and if I can accomplish the same thing with 6% I will do it. The last thing I want is a fire hazard. What can I do to get a FMP, without causing it to be way too hot in the middle? If I go down a size, won't it cause the MP to be too small? Thanks so much for all the great advice! 6% is plenty if you use good oil. My 2 3\4" candles could scent a 500 sq ft space with 4630 and 6% FO. 10% will drown your wick or make a huge flame. If you want a candle recipe use a small jelly canning jar, 4630, HTP 52, 6% FO and use a light FO. Cannot tell you which fo since I used to use Peaks but their cranberry worked and the Christmas Spruce did too. Bakery scents are hard to wick. You may be pushing it by trying to get this right for Christmas this year. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) I wanted to update everyone on my wick headache! We tried the HTP wicks. We tested 31, 41 an 52 with our 3 inch tin, 4630 wax. WSP Frasier Fir at 10% and unfortunately the results are not impressive. HT is nowhere near as strong as it should be and the 31 and 41 wicks have awful mushrooms and with low, flickering flames. The 52 wick still has mushrooms, but they are smaller and its burning much better, but its not putting out a HT I would like. I ordered Peaks and CS Frasier Fir as I am dead set on making this scent my first success in time for holiday season. Today I am going to try ECO wicks and see if I get better burns. Any further advice is much appreciated! PS - I know many say 10% is too much which is why I may be having wick issues, but I added more FO because this Frasier Fir is not putting out HT like I expected from previous tests. Edited October 28, 2017 by LCF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I'm pretty sure HTP 52 is too small for that container. I'd start testing with at least a 93. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Really? I went based off of the size recommendations I read on FlamingCandle. 52 burns all the way to the sides but I will take your advice and try a 93. Heating up lots of wax right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 In my experience. For reference, this is CS Frasier Fir in 4630 in 8oz canning jar from Walmart w/HTP 93 wick. This jar has a 2.5" opening and 3" diameter at widest point. I may have to go down to 83, but I'll have to burn to the end to see. Testing these I've noticed sometimes the burn starts out strong but gets really weak as it gets near the bottom. On the flip side, sometimes it's too hot at the bottom. So I'll just have to burn til the end to see. I generally use 104's in status jars which (I think) are the same diameter as the 8oz tins. The status jars and tins don't hold in as much heat as a jar with shoulders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah S Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 I'm going to second @bfrobertsrecommendations with the wick size. For my jars with 2.75" opening and straight sides, I start with an HTP 83 and go up or down from there. I do usually wick down for the pine fragrances, but I can't imagine how much a flame would struggle with a 52! And I'm sure that's why you're not happy with your HT. If I had to make guess, I'd say the wick was using all your FO for fuel, hence the mushroom and poor throw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) You guys are amazing. I finally, FINALLY have the right wick type. the HTP is burning beautifully but I am still not sure of the exact size I will use, but I am going to test different wick sizes for each scent we're making. We tested HTP 93 and its great but may be a little too hot so we may go down 1 size, and hopefully will make a decision before the end of the week. My next question is, if we were to go up to 8% FO, would we wick up or down? More fragrance, bigger wick, or more fragrance, less wick? Edited October 30, 2017 by LCF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, LCF said: My next question is, if we were to go up to 8% FO, would we wick up or down? More fragrance, bigger wick, or more fragrance, less wick? Honestly it can go either way. fragrance oils are made up of hundreds of aromachemicals in unlimited combinations, plus carriers with vary depending on the lab where the scent was produced. There is no way to know without testing from start to finish. Another thing you may may find is that wicks can burn different depending on where you buy from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 TallTayl, that is very good to know. I use a few different suppliers and I will make sure to keep buying from who I have tested from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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