jbradshaw Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) I poured my third batch of candles a couple weeks ago and this is the first organized test burn I've done on homemade candles. I'm hoping someone more experienced can confirm what I think happened. Wax: 464 Wick: ECO 12 FO: Peak's Fireside at 6% Cure time: 16 days Container: 8oz tin, 2" high 3 1/8" diameter Photos (top to bottom): 15 minutes in, 1 hr, 2 hr, 3 hr, 4 hr (just before I extinguished), next morning Here's my thoughts, based on my notes and photos: 1. It seems like the candle is over-wicked. The flame seemed large to me, there were occasional wisps of smoke, and there was pretty much a full melt pool by 4 hours. But I'm not sure if it really has to be completely to the edges to count as 'full' 2. I think my wick must have been leaning or off center. 3. I think I didn't trim the wick enough (I eyeballed 1/4" instead of measuring, oops) and that's why I got a bit of curling. 4. No idea about the next morning why it looks pitted - could that be wet spots? The materials I used were mostly from the Candlescience kit, so I'm surprised it would be over wicked but that seems to be the case. Thanks! Edited November 17, 2016 by jbradshaw typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I think it looks good myself. Continue burning to the end. You really don't want a full melt pool on the first burn or even the second. See what happens when you continue to burn. And yes, you needed to cut that wick shorter. Before you start your next burn, trim to 1/4". You will see a big difference. What the top looks like after burned is 'PERFECTLY NORMAL". It's just a characteristic of soy. There is nothing wrong with the looks of the top at all. Great job! Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Trappeur said: I think it looks good myself. Continue burning to the end. You really don't want a full melt pool on the first burn or even the second. See what happens when you continue to burn. And yes, you needed to cut that wick shorter. Before you start your next burn, trim to 1/4". You will see a big difference. What the top looks like after burned is 'PERFECTLY NORMAL". It's just a characteristic of soy. There is nothing wrong with the looks of the top at all. Great job! Trappeur Trappeur, Ive always heard + read that with soy, you need to burn the first time until the melted wax reaches the edges. Saying that soy has a " memory" and won't melt past where the last burn left off .... does that make sense ? Or the candle will tunnel ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradshaw Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Thanks for the feedback! I didn't realize I should expect the top to look that way - my other candles hadn't had that happen to such a degree so I'm relieved it's normal. I feel like I've also seen inconsistent advice on a full melt pool on first burn. I had seen the 'memory burn' advice Moonstar mentioned, but then also read that if a candle reaches full melt pool on first burn it needs a small wick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I use soy and tins. The ECO 10 is pretty big in that container, and the 12 much more so. The next burn or two you will likely start seeing the bottom of the tin. I use ECO 10 in the 8oz tin for my hardest to wick fragrances when even a CD16 won't cut it. Even then the ECO 10 often is too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 You beat me to the punch Tall Tayle because I had in my mind to say that she was probably going to have to wick down but I didn't. I got a phone call and got side tracked. Like Tall Tayle said if you start seeing the bottom of that tin on the next burn in the 3 to 4 hour burn increments you have going, you can pretty much assume that wick is too big and the further down you burn it, the tin is going to get very hot. Generally when I'm testing a new jar I will have 3 jars going with 3 different wicks and burn them all side by side to see which wick is going to be the choice. You might want to try that sometime. I don't use ecos but cd's and htps so I can't give advice on that wick series. For an 8oz tin in 464 I use a cd12. Trappeur . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradshaw Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Thanks, Tall Tayle and Trappeur. I've recently started this hobby and now that I'm enjoying it I'll order additional wick sizes and perhaps containers and start doing more thorough test burns with varying wick sizes. I'll also see how this does on a second burn tonight in terms of heat of the tin and whether I can see the bottom or not. I'm surprised the CandleScience kit includes wicks that are too large for the containers they include! The good news is - it has a great hot throw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 You know I see that often the recommendations of what is suggested. In this instance did CS suggest that wick size for that wax? You know what amazes me? These supposed pros out there who make their suggestions...like for example....there is a site called "Candlefind". They are a group of women who do nothing but buy or get free samples of candles from all sorts of companies and they put their reviews up on these different companies. It's quite interesting this company. If you read on this site, these gals are always stating that it is very impressive when there is a full melt pool obtained on the first burning and they actually look for that! When a full melt pool is not received they look at it as a negative. Well, we all know that a full melt pool on the first burn is going to be trouble as the candle burns further down with the glass getting extremely hot. So I don't know. But I do know we all strive to make a great candle that burns properly and that is the important thing. Trappeur 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Candle science is not the only supplier recommending larger than often needed wicks. I remember a brambleberry video of Anne-Marie making a tin with soy wax and saying something to the effect of, she likes to use bigger wicks than recommended because she likes the scent to fill the air quicker. I was like and never watched another video of theirs ever. If someone wants to quickly/immediately fill a room with fragrance, use a spray (or maybe even a melt). For scent that wafts, lingers and enhances a space candles, reed diffusers, and potpourri seem like better choices. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, TallTayl said: Candle science is not the only supplier recommending larger than often needed wicks. I remember a brambleberry video of Anne-Marie making a tin with soy wax and saying something to the effect of, she likes to use bigger wicks than recommended because she likes the scent to fill the air quicker. I was like and never watched another video of theirs ever. If someone wants to quickly/immediately fill a room with fragrance, use a spray (or maybe even a melt). For scent that wafts, lingers and enhances a space candles, reed diffusers, and potpourri seem like better choices. The wick size suggestions at CS are way off IMHO. The candle shop that I sent you a link to, In less than 10 minutes i was getting an amazing scent. It then makes me feel like Im not succeeding on mine. I guess its normal to compare yourself to others I still think there must be something these candle shops are adding to their candles, they all smell amazing in less than 10/15 minutes. Maybe Im wrong IDK ? I think consumers in general want everything NOW as in immediately. Maybe this is why shops want their candles to release scent right away ???? I was at Costco earlier and heard a customer tear the manager to shreds all because she didn't get her way. I felt so bad for the manager she was young and I could tell didn't have her "sea legs " yet - the customer was ruthless + humiliating. Why do people behave this way - is it a power thing I just don't get it . To me, she just made an ass out of herself + looked disturbed lol ! Sorry got off track lol ! I really think that people expect candles or melts to fill a cathedral with super strong+ instant scent. I stumbled across these youtube videos once that had candles reviews from BBW. Theres a few reviews on there that to me the whole thing seems odd, I guess I don't get the point. The reviews talk about how quick the pool + how strong the candle. Maybe its a generational thing but personally, I don't get it. They are a little too much into the candle + review -maybe a little too much time on their hands IDK lol ! Edited November 18, 2016 by Moonstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 15 hours ago, Moonstar said: Trappeur, Ive always heard + read that with soy, you need to burn the first time until the melted wax reaches the edges. Saying that soy has a " memory" and won't melt past where the last burn left off .... does that make sense ? Or the candle will tunnel ??? Moonstar, Here are my thoughts on that subject, "Memory of a candle".....It is a supposed fact that candles do retain memories and I agree somewhat on this. Generally the rule of thumb is a candle burns 1" per hour and to get a full melt pool say for example a 3" diameter it should take give or take 3 hours to get a melt pool across that candle. This is where in my mind contradiction comes into play. If the normal burn tests are between 3 and 4 hours, for all things intended this 3" jar I'm talking about should not reach a full melt pool but come decently fairly close to the edge and HAVE some hangup. On the next burning or even 2 burnings either the 2'nd or 3'rd supposedly the candle should come close to the edge again......but generally for me that jar is pretty much having a full melt pool....but....there is a but.....my important concern when this happens is that I have succeeded in selecting a wick that does not make a jar extremely hot, doesn't have a deep melt pool and I am able to pickup that jar. I know this goes against all supposed rules of the proper way to have achieved a properly wicked jar, but I think we all have to figure out what works for each of us and use the basic guidelines of where to start. Now as far as a memory goes, yes if you have a wick that is too small it will only reach out only so far and each burning afterwards is only going to go as far as where the previous burning ended....now that is what I call the memory. Now the large 5" diameter candle jars that I get from General Wax is going to take a good 4 to 4 1/2 or 5 hours to get a melt pool going. On this jar I would definitely not stop at a 3 hour testing. I would let it burn longer so it doesn't start tunneling because it will if you go by the usual testing period of 3 to 4 hours at a time. So you see a general testing would not apply towards this jar. I think you have to use common sense and your own judgement once you start working with different jars as all rules do not apply and they are not set in stone. There is so much controversy on judgement calls. We just have to each find what works best for us. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Trappeur said: Moonstar, Here are my thoughts on that subject, "Memory of a candle".....It is a supposed fact that candles do retain memories and I agree somewhat on this. Generally the rule of thumb is a candle burns 1" per hour and to get a full melt pool say for example a 3" diameter it should take give or take 3 hours to get a melt pool across that candle. This is where in my mind contradiction comes into play. If the normal burn tests are between 3 and 4 hours, for all things intended this 3" jar I'm talking about should not reach a full melt pool but come decently fairly close to the edge and HAVE some hangup. On the next burning or even 2 burnings either the 2'nd or 3'rd supposedly the candle should come close to the edge again......but generally for me that jar is pretty much having a full melt pool....but....there is a but.....my important concern when this happens is that I have succeeded in selecting a wick that does not make a jar extremely hot, doesn't have a deep melt pool and I am able to pickup that jar. I know this goes against all supposed rules of the proper way to have achieved a properly wicked jar, but I think we all have to figure out what works for each of us and use the basic guidelines of where to start. Now as far as a memory goes, yes if you have a wick that is too small it will only reach out only so far and each burning afterwards is only going to go as far as where the previous burning ended....now that is what I call the memory. Now the large 5" diameter candle jars that I get from General Wax is going to take a good 4 to 4 1/2 or 5 hours to get a melt pool going. On this jar I would definitely not stop at a 3 hour testing. I would let it burn longer so it doesn't start tunneling because it will if you go by the usual testing period of 3 to 4 hours at a time. So you see a general testing would not apply towards this jar. I think you have to use common sense and your own judgement once you start working with different jars as all rules do not apply and they are not set in stone. There is so much controversy on judgement calls. We just have to each find what works best for us. Makes perfect sense + well said - as usual thank you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Moonstar said: Makes perfect sense + well said - as usual thank you ! lol.....Oh I forgot too that one of the most important things too in the making of a proper candle is the fragrance throw, but that comes after determining the other things as it will all fall into place. I like to get a good throw on the first burn myself. Trappeur 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradshaw Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 Got a bit busy at work and didn't get a chance to respond... Trappeur, yes that was the recommendation from CS for the tin and wax as it was all part of their soy candle making kit. I did a second burn of 2 hours (had to leave the house unexpectedly) and did not yet see the bottom of the tin, I would imagine I will next time I burn it. I really appreciate all the feedback - I think I will be trying a smaller wick on these containers, with this wax to see how it goes. And definitely for future batches where I'm trying a new container I'll also try a variety of wick sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Hi there, I have question to add to this topic. I started candle making this past spring, and after much testing, found that the HTP 93 wick was the perfect wick for C3 and the jar I'm using. I live in New Jersey, and am just entering into colder, dryer weather. I made 60 candles this past week to get ready for a show, and when I tested a couple of my candles, suddenly, after months of the 93's working perfectly, they're now not giving me a full burn pool. UGH!!!!! I am so frustrated. I can't imagine that I need to wick for weather... help. I am starting to question the wax. It's almost like the flame isn't as big now AND the wax is not burning out to the edges. When I wicked up one in the summer, it was too big. I'm so upset. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I used c3 for many years and always my choice of wicks were the htp's. What jar is that, the name and what size? 8oz? Do you have a side view picture of it? Could it be the fragrance you used in that jar as needing to be wicked up being that it is a heavier scent? Generally I use 1 wick size for all my fragrances. There are only 1 or maybe 2 oils that are heavier that I need to wick up on. From the picture I can't tell if the jar is 1/2 way burned or what? Also what burn number is this? 2'nd burn or 3'rd? From what I can see, it sure is struggling and looks like it needs a bigger wick, but I'm not sure. And yes, I happen to agree as it has happened to me that in colder weather a wick will struggle. Trappeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Hello! It's an 8oz straight sided jar. This weekend tried to up the wick one size, and am still determining whether it is going to work. I'm noticing that one of the main issues seems to be how much the HTP's curl. One side of the class is cleaner than the other. Are you able to achieve a clean burn with your C3? I've ordered soy candles from other companies to see how they burn, and am wondering if it's the wax... I also have a 16oz jar that's been a total nightmare to wick. Seems like the 105 is too small, but the 1212 looks like a blowtorch, and mushrooms too much. I'm pulling my hair out! My smaller jar is amber, so it's not quite as offensive to see some wax on the jar, but the clear glass doesn't look so hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbradshaw Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 Third burn - 4 hours, still not at the bottom of the tin. Still going to get several wick sizes for my next burn. I wish I had more time to devote to this - I haven't poured anything since these candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 On 12/2/2016 at 11:15 AM, Trappeur said: I used c3 for many years and always my choice of wicks were the htp's. What jar is that, the name and what size? 8oz? Do you have a side view picture of it? Could it be the fragrance you used in that jar as needing to be wicked up being that it is a heavier scent? Generally I use 1 wick size for all my fragrances. There are only 1 or maybe 2 oils that are heavier that I need to wick up on. From the picture I can't tell if the jar is 1/2 way burned or what? Also what burn number is this? 2'nd burn or 3'rd? From what I can see, it sure is struggling and looks like it needs a bigger wick, but I'm not sure. And yes, I happen to agree as it has happened to me that in colder weather a wick will struggle. Trappeur Which Fo do you usually need to wick up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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