Etsy vs other website platforms

[KB12]

I know this topic has been brought up in the past, but I was wondering if anyone's opinions have changed. I would like to sell online, and I would like to know what everyone's thoughts are for the easiest and most cost effective way to do so.

I like the idea of etsy, as it seems to be pretty affordable, with the $.20 listing fee and the 3.5% selling fee. But it seems like in order to be seen, you need to invest in ads. Are there any other fees to take into consideration? I really don't like the fact that there is so much competition and that potential customers might not even see your store, but it seems like a good place to establish an online presence.

Also, does anyone sell through Facebook? If so, how do you do this? Any help and pointers would be greatly appreciated.

[Belinda]

There are several that have Facebook groups that do really well. They also have etsy stores and websites. I did mine all backwards by getting a website first when I should've done an etsy store and then progressed to a website (in my opinion). But I really never did anything with the site. I'm not as motivated (wish I was) as I should be but hopefully will be one day.

One thing you could do is create a group page to advertise your items on Facebook and add your friends and get them to add some of their friends too. I don't have a very large following in my group, but I haven't advertised in the wax groups yet either  because I also work full time right now and I know I wouldn't be as dedicated to my wax business as I should be to have a happy customer. Lord willing, when I retire I will have the time to do that and will have good customer service which is a must for a lot of  the wax customers. There are several wax groups you can join and advertise your wax there to get started.

I'm sure there are others that will have better advice than mine but maybe this will help you somewhat.

[pcbrook]

 I started out with an Etsy store but moved to my own site.  When I sent everyone to the Etsy store I felt like I was sending them to other sellers too!  

[Trappeur]

 I started out with an Etsy store but moved to my own site.  When I sent everyone to the Etsy store I felt like I was sending them to other sellers too!  

Thats what I was thinking too....

 

Trappeur

[Trappeur]

There are several that have Facebook groups that do really well. They also have etsy stores and websites. I did mine all backwards by getting a website first when I should've done an etsy store and then progressed to a website (in my opinion). But I really never did anything with the site. I'm not as motivated (wish I was) as I should be but hopefully will be one day.

One thing you could do is create a group page to advertise your items on Facebook and add your friends and get them to add some of their friends too. I don't have a very large following in my group, but I haven't advertised in the wax groups yet either  because I also work full time right now and I know I wouldn't be as dedicated to my wax business as I should be to have a happy customer. Lord willing, when I retire I will have the time to do that and will have good customer service which is a must for a lot of  the wax customers. There are several wax groups you can join and advertise your wax there to get started.

I'm sure there are others that will have better advice than mine but maybe this will help you somewhat.

I'm going to watch this post as I've been contemplating this too but I know there is a member here who had a bad happening as she was going to do a store on etsy and it left a bad feeling in my head too as hers...But then I see so many others do it there with good success...

 

I really don't know much about facebook except reading posts by others and I have thought about doing it there too, but I don't have the foggiest clue how to do it.  Belinda you say create a group page?  So what does that do?  Do you put up pictures of all your things with prices and then people see you and they order??  And how do they do that?

 

Trappeur

[justajesuschick]

 I started out with an Etsy store but moved to my own site.  When I sent everyone to the Etsy store I felt like I was sending them to other sellers too!  

 

I see this said here a lot but I do not see it that way at all. Although I have moved to a website from Etsy, I did not tell people to just go to Etsy and find me! I sent them directly to my Shop. With a link. Typically through my Facebook Group. 

 

I'm going to watch this post as I've been contemplating this too but I know there is a member here who had a bad happening as she was going to do a store on etsy and it left a bad feeling in my head too as hers...But then I see so many others do it there with good success...

 

I really don't know much about facebook except reading posts by others and I have thought about doing it there too, but I don't have the foggiest clue how to do it.  Belinda you say create a group page?  So what does that do?  Do you put up pictures of all your things with prices and then people see you and they order??  And how do they do that?

 

Trappeur

I also do not understand "a bad happening". Etsy is about the safest, most benign platform where anyone can begin or for some, build and stay. 

 

I left Etsy as the fees became excessive. That was good in the sense that it meant that I was selling plenty! No matter the e-commerce platform, there will also be Credit Card and PayPal fees in addition to the fees that you mentioned. 

[MLG]

I know this topic has been brought up in the past, but I was wondering if anyone's opinions have changed. I would like to sell online, and I would like to know what everyone's thoughts are for the easiest and most cost effective way to do so.

I like the idea of etsy, as it seems to be pretty affordable, with the $.20 listing fee and the 3.5% selling fee. But it seems like in order to be seen, you need to invest in ads. Are there any other fees to take into consideration? I really don't like the fact that there is so much competition and that potential customers might not even see your store, but it seems like a good place to establish an online presence.

Also, does anyone sell through Facebook? If so, how do you do this? Any help and pointers would be greatly appreciated.

I'm glad you asked this question KB. I have been wrestling with this for awhile and just unsure of which direction to go? I, too, will be watching for responses to your post. Thanks for introducing it

[

[TallTayl]

I have both, etsy and my own online stores. It really isn't a magic choice of one versus the other since both take a lot of work to generate traffic and sales.

With Etsy, you are automatically in front of tens of thousands of buyers looking to buy great handmade products that make them feel special. Getting that much potential traffic to your own site takes a lot of marketing skill and money.

Having your own site can be great, especially if you're good at maintaining a catalog, updates, tagging and getting found on search engines.

In both places you need to learn to create an excellent story and a brand that resonates with your kind of customer. In both places you need to drive people to your shop. tag your listings using words that your customers use to be found. It takes a lot of trial and error and PATIENCE.

One mistake people leaving etsy make is thinking their hard-earned customer base will follow them to your own private site. Etsy is a powerful culture, where customers want to shop only within etsy.

Isn't it kind of funny thinking etsy is crowded with sellers in our niche when the great big internet has tens of thousands more? What does your brand offer that others cannot? Why is your brand special? Capitalize on that, choose your ideal customer and work to attract them

[Guest OldGlory]

I had a questionable experience with Etsy, and opted to not open the shop I'd worked hard to put together.

Long story short - I ended up being contacted by someone thru Etsy that I had no contact with. This person thanked me for my purchase, which I never made, and sent me the invoice. This concerned me since my shop was not open. How did this person get my contact info???

I contacted Etsy about the unwarranted contact and they said they appreciated my email and would look into it. That's what they said the 2d, 3rd, and 4th time I contacted Etsy about it too. Just a form email, but no actual investigation.

I've never made a purchase from Etsy and my shop never opened, so why was I being thanked for a purchase and how did they get my contact info? I'll never find out. Not a place I want to link my debit card to.

[justajesuschick]

How odd and how unfortunate! I only sent invoices through PayPal (which was rare as most people just purchased what they wanted or I set up a custom listing for them). I never knew of an option to send an invoice directly through Etsy. Of course, anyone could "convo" you through Etsy but as you stated, I do not know how they would do that without your shop name being published. 

 

I know several who have been there for years (some in this group) and have done well there. I had no negative experience there and I certainly wish you had not either.

 

TallTayl-I do think one mistake people make is assuming that they can set up an Etsy Shop and "they will come". There, or with a site, one has to have a marketing plan. How will you gain a customer base? Facebook page or group? Facebook tracking pixels? Purchased lists? Cross-marketing with others? Email capture? Newsletter? Blog? 

I have seen some post that they set up and Etsy Shop X months ago and have not made a single sale. That is the same as opening a physical retail store, opening the door and peering out looking for customers. No one sells passively anymore. One has to actively market for customers. 

[TallTayl]

The marketing piece is missing from most plans

I know of so many people who have an excellent idea and product, but miss the mark on who would buy their stuff. Then they ponder how small business is expected to fail and chalk it up to bad economy, etsy, ebay or whatever.

Then you see people with what we consider marginal stuff who sell and sell and sell at premium prices!

The key is: figure out who is your ideal customer then show up in front of them. Stay in front of them. If your ideal customer shops at fancy department stores, then you will not likely get in front of them at a local craft show or flea market. Get your stuff into the stores where they shop. Tweak up your story, branding and packaging to grab their attention. Rinse, repeat.

Facebook can be ok, but i figured out early on the biggest audience on FB was competition . So i started hitting my customer list and in-person customers and driving them to my pages. Blogging helps too. Share interesting stories about what inspired a scent or color, etc. when people connect with you they will be excited to buy anything and everything you come up with.

Check out who you consider your competition. Study what they do. Don't copy their exact concept, but take parts that really stand out and apply them to your shops. Look at their tags and keywords and use them.

[Trappeur]

Is there such a thing for example on Etsy how to stay in the front when someone types in for example soy candles, actually what I'm asking is how do you stay for example on the first 2 to 3 pages?  The competition is very fierce without a doubt.  How do you market or advertise there?  Can you give some examples?

 

Trappeur

[justajesuschick]

Facebook can be ok, but i figured out early on the biggest audience on FB was competition . So i started hitting my customer list and in-person customers and driving them to my pages. Blogging helps too. Share interesting stories about what inspired a scent or color, etc. when people connect with you they will be excited to buy anything and everything you come up with.

Check out who you consider your competition. Study what they do. Don't copy their exact concept, but take parts that really stand out and apply them to your shops. Look at their tags and keywords and use them.

 

Facebook Groups have been key for me. My Facebook Group (not page) for my business is about 1,400 people. That is where most of my sales originate. Local sales are tiny for me and not something on which I focus. 

 

I have gotten burned by those replicating what I do, or post, so that is a touchy subject for me. I am VERY careful in being aware of, but not watching my competitors as I would not want to come to close to replicating something they have done. I think sites like Pinterest have falsely given people the notion that any idea or post is theirs for the taking. Separating myself in the wax world is a constant job for me.

Is there such a thing for example on Etsy how to stay in the front when someone types in for example soy candles, actually what I'm asking is how do you stay for example on the first 2 to 3 pages?  The competition is very fierce without a doubt.  How do you market or advertise there?  Can you give some examples?

 

Trappeur

You can do Etsy ads but I have not found them very effective. I think it is important to think of Etsy as a platform, just like every or any site. Your goal is to drive people there, not list and hope you are found. While I could tell from my stats that some found me through organic search, overwhelmingly, those in the Facebook Group were those who bought. 

Now that I am on the site, I have data from the site platform and I have installed Google analytics for richer data. 

So, while you can market there, my experience is that marketing elsewhere to drive people there was best.

[TallTayl]

The algorythm to keep you on the first couple pages changes. Used to be 'fresh' listings. Now the etsy development team claims 'relevance'. In my case, I looked up the words used most often to search out my top products (shampoo and deodorant). What words to people use to look up 'my' type of product? Deodorant. DeodErant, Natural Deodorant, Deodorant stick, etc.  Shampoo bars, solid shampoo, syndet shampoo, etc.Google has lists of relevant words I check out from time to time too, but ust typing words into the search bar right in Etsy tells you exactly what people use when looking for my products.

 

Then I use all 13 tags and the most popular search words and terms in the listing titles without looking like I am trying to tag stuff.

 

Then... post some good photos all arranged similarly so that when a pic shows up in a search people automatically know it is mine. I use the same label styles, background, perspectives, etc. Check out places like Outlaw Soap company. THey use the same skull and 6-shooter in each photo so you automatically recognize the brand.

 

Finally, related to the above, chose packaging and labeling that is consistent through the whole brand. Having too many styles, labels, designs on labels, etc dilutes the identiy and makes it confusing. Having a consistent soap shape, for example, makes it super easy to know which in that huge list are mine. Cutting things that are not 'on brand' was hard, but so worthwhile.

 

I list a LOT of stuff. Having 10 or so listings does not generate enough clicks, so 100 is what I aim for. Once you get your loyal customer base they do a lot of the work to keep you up front by clinking, buying, favoriting, etc.

 

My shop is on vacation as the summer event winds toward an end. Once I get it back up I'll list fresh new scents and blends, then make sure I keep showing up on pages 1, 2, and 3 by notifying my customers that I have new things. Generating excitement about what is coming keeps them clicking the "notify me when the shop reopens' button. As soon as the shop re-opens the orders come in.

 

Hope this helps =)

[justajesuschick]

Do you have a link to Outlaw Soap on Etsy? I could not find them there but did find their Facebook Group (over 3,200!) and a nice Shopify site but no Etsy link. Perhaps I have the wrong Outlaw Soap?

This is the FB I found: https://www.facebook.com/OutlawSoaps

Thanks!

[TallTayl]

Look at their main site: http://www.outlawtradingco.com

Not sure if they ever had an etsy site, was must pointing out some pretty strong branding. The owner, Danielle, worked for a few multinational companies. Her blog shares some of her life lessons with her brand, something i find very interesting as i continually adapt with my own.

[TallTayl]

Another great place to see what the competition looks like is craftcount.com

You can query by top overall sellers or by your category. Look at what the top 25 in your category are doing, does it fit with your strategy?

I was kinda jazzed when i saw my main shop in the top 200!

[justajesuschick]

That is awesome!

Yes. I found their site on Shopify and their Facebook page. Wanted to be certain that it was the same company that you referenced.

Thank you!

[KB12]

Wow, what a wealth of information! Thank you to everyone who shared their experiences.

I agree that SEO and marketing are key, but can sometimes be difficult. That's something that I need to research more and become better at.

On average, what was everyone's monthly fees for etsy? How is shipping calculated? Does etsy automatically do it for you?

If i had a page on fb and no other website, how would I sell products? Is this even possible? Or do you need to have an established website and direct your customers there from fb?

[TallTayl]

Will reply when I get home, but loads of answers for you...

[TallTayl]

On average, what was everyone's monthly fees for etsy?

This is really an irrelevant question. Not to be a jerk, but the fees include many things that make it seem more expensive than it really is. I'm not sure people actually read the statements before they throw up their hands saying etsy is too expensive.

https://www.etsy.com/help/article/136

Monthly Fee statements include:

Listing fee of $.20 per item

3.5% selling price commission

Shipping (which the customer has already paid if you have done things right)

So, when i tell you that my monthly statement of fees averages $300+ you may immediately think, whoa etsy is expensive. But... All of the accumulated shipping charges the customers have paid to get packages around the world is included in that aggregate number.

The only "extra" fees on etsy versus your own web site are the $.20 per listing and 3.5% commission. To me, 3.5% of a sale is super cheap. It is a lot cheaper than marketing to customers myself. It's far cheaper than a craft show booth fee when a show is rained out. All the other fees we pay every single online transaction.

A big mistake is underpricing listings. You have to be able to cover expenses and actually turn a profit. No profit=no business.

How is shipping calculated? Does etsy automatically do it for you?

It can calculate automatically based on how you set it up. You could also set your own shipping costs per item based on your own estimations. I used to do the manual version. Some i would lose a buck or three shipping, others i would overestimate. Recently I took the time to convert every single item to autocalculate based on weight and dimensions. It's not perfect, but pretty close. Rarely do i "lose" money on shipping since investing the time to figure it out.

Hope this helps.

Edited August 17, 2015 by TallTayl

[TallTayl]

Maybe the fees will be more understandable with a real-life example:

Example etsy bill from a month. Bill for month X $324.58

Summary of This Month's Activity

Listing fees: $7.00 (35 new listings)

Transaction fees: + $38.60 (3.5% of the month's sales)

Private listing fees: + $0.00

Edit fees: + $0.00

Renew fees: + $0.20 (manually renewed one deactivated item)

Renew Expired fees: + $1.60 (manually renewed 8 expired listings)

Renew Sold fees: + $27.40 (137 sales for which i set multi-quantities of items to be automatically relisted after the sale)

Search Ads fees: + $0.00

Promoted Listings fees: + $0.00

Shipping labels: + $249.78 (all paid by the customers with the order. I received the money into my paypal or direct payment escrow. This line is just to pay back etsy for basically loaning me the money)

Other: + $-0.00

Fees = $324.58

So, all the 131 sales cost me in etsy special fees was $27.40+ $38.60. $66 is pretty darned cheap for the top line revenues that month.

[KB12]

Thank you so much for posting the bill. I'm a very visual person, and I'm sure others will benefit from it as well.

For the monthly sales that you made, I would agree that $66 is extremely affordable. Thank you for explaining shipping charges, it helps a lot.

So, from the consensus on this thread, etsy seems like a good place to start. I'm sorry for the bad experiences that were mentioned.

It will definitely take some time for me to build up the number of items that I have to list. I read somewhere that the "magical" number for posting items on etsy and being successful is 77. Who knows if there is any truth to this exact number. But from what talltayl said, it coincides with the more items that you have listed, the more traffic you have to your shop, and the better you do.

[TallTayl]

I don't know what the magic number is any more either. All those golden rules changed a couple years ago. But... a few stellar listings that engage the customer are better than scores of ho-hum listings, if that makes sense.

Edited to add: more listings increases the law of averages, meaning the more items you have, chances are tags from a few listings will appear in many different customer searches. They only need one of your listings to click into your shop.

The key to etsy success is figuring out who your customer is, then creating a shop experience that draws them in like a tractor beam. When people love you and your shop they are loyal to a fault.

Etsy offers shop critiques in at least one of their forums and teams. As you begin your journey, i would take advantage of the collective knowledge in those teams! You may not hear what you want to hear, but it is all meant to help your shop succeed

Edited August 17, 2015 by TallTayl

[justajesuschick]

You make some GREAT points!

If anyone asked where to get started selling, my answer would be Etsy. They make it simple to get started and manage a lot of backend things for you. No coding and no html.

There were some months that I did not sell as much and my fees were commensurate. As I sold, and listed more it became clear that I had reached a place where a site made better sense for me. Some customers felt like Etsy was the same as eBay (and they did not like eBay) or indicated that a website seemed more professional and therefore trustworthy. Not true, but perception. Many in the wax melt category (the category in which I am in) have websites and it is what they were accustomed. 

 

This image is an example of my monthly fees for March (one of my highest months and what drove my decision to switch). As you can see, listing fees, renewal fees and transaction fees totaled $132.85. My new site is much less per month even with plug-ins and apps added to get it just how I want. Shipping that month was almost $800!  Of course, shipping was paid by customers.

It is important to note that I had a reasonable number of listings as I had Melts sold in groups of 6, 8, 12 and 16. If I had elected to list each out separately, that would have created 90 listings and listing and renewal fees would have multiplied as well.

I had nothing but a WONDERFUL experience on Etsy! I would suggest it to anyone building an audience. If you know who your customers are, they are regular and repeat, you really just need a place for them to place an order and for you to accept their payment safely. That could be Etsy or it could be a website.