Opinions needed on straight 4627

[Terry]

Testing 4627 alone for the first time--please take a look at the attached photos and give me your opinions. I read that the HTP wick was the best wick to use for this type of wax. Maybe I shouldn't have added the FO's on the tes but I couldn't help myself! I am also an admitted Frangrance-a-holic awaiting my first order of samples from AH/RE!!

1) Asian Sandlewood/Peak @ 9%. HTP 83 wick. At first the flame seemed perfect, then the flame seemed to be getting smaller --I blew it out so the wick would not drown out. I tried again next day (see pix) and my second burn was for 3 hours and flame still small, melt pool as you can see, not reaching the side of the jar yet. Third burn is still going on, 2 hours, small flame still, melt pool around the same size.

2) Sweet Pumpkin Spice/Peak @ 9%, HTP 73. First burn 4 hours, as you can see in the pictures, this flame appears to be small too, melt pool not reaching the sides of the jar. I am burning now for 2 hours and the flame seems to be larger and stronger.

So what I would like to know is, is it characteristic of this wax to burn this way meaning that on the first or second burn th MP will not reach the jar or should I be wicking up? Will the melt pool grow the more burns that are done?

I LOVE reading the posts on this site every opportunity I get (my husband thinks I am communicating with old flames on Facebook, LOL, nice to know he is jealous after 26 years of marraige!!) Thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge with us newer people! -Terry

[Belinda]

I'm having the same problem with 4630 and HTP wicks. I also think I used too much FO but I've gone up 2 sizes and still don't get a full melt pool. I have some LX and larger HTP wicks coming in soon so I hope that will work.

You'll get some good advice on here. Sadly, I'm not the one that can help you. Just wanted you to know that I'm having the same problem with the same size and type of wick but different wax. This is the wick that was recommended as the best on the CS website though but that is just a guideline.

[Old Crab]

Hello & welcome.

If I remember correctly I used htp 83 or 93 depending on the scent and the percentage in jelly jars.

I only had so so luck with the htp, LX seemed to work better than the htps - for me.

I had much better results using cd 7 or cd 8.

There are some different opinions as to when you should get a full melt pool.

Maybe I am aggressive in my wicking, but I believe that container candles should reach a full melt pool the first time they are burned. I do admit though that the cd 6 or cd 7 seem to burn a little better than the 8 in the jelly jars but will take longer to reach full melt pool.

I've tried the LX wicks and I do like them but I always go back to the CDs.

As far as 4630 the best results I got were with cd 10 & cd 12 in jelly jars.

I felt they were too large but they worked better than the cd 8.

[Chefmom]

I casually use HTP on occasion, but they have never been my go-to wick. With some scents and my set up I will get a better overall throw with an HTP, so I may use it for that one scent.

My use of 4627 is limited, but by your photos you are underwicked. When you use dark colors you may have to try a hotter burning wick or a higher number of the wicks you are using. I have read that the viscosity of 4627 usually needs to have a larger wick in the first place, that's before using a heavy scent or a dark color. Red is my touchy-ist color, if I go just a tad too heavy then my wick suffers.

What I hate the most is when I have a sad little flame like in the photos but an awesome scent throw. I want to pull my hair out because you don't want to mess with an awesome scent through, of course, but you do want a good flame and a good consumption.

I love the self trimming aspect of HTP and I really wanted it to work, but for me LX is my first choice and CD is a back up, but I'm testing different waxes with CD to get a better feel of them. I like to have them all on hand because sometimes one will work better than another in certain scents.

As for melt pool, the jury is out. I like to see the first burn reach almost to the edge, about 3/4 of the diameter. I usually burn 4 or 5 times (in three hour slots for a jelly jar) before I make my assessment. I can usually tell after the first burn what is going on though. The theory is, if it is a big wick and reaches the full melt pool on the very first burn, once it burns down into the jar and the sides of the jar trap more heat, then the wick may be too big and can make the jar lightning hot and even crack the glass. For me, I test my very first test with a half full jar. I make a 100 gram sample and pour one jar half full and see what the wick will do in the bottom before repeating the test with a full jar. a.) I have a limited budget and this allows me to immediately cancel out scents that don't work with very little invested and b.) I don't waste the time to burn a jar halfway before realizing it won't work in the bottom half and then having to start over. In the end the system has to work from top to bottom. I just use this method to save time and resources in the process.

Best of Luck to you, wicking will be the hardest part of this journey, well, choosing scents is pretty tough too. :tiptoe:

[Terry]

Belinda, I appreciate your response and support and one day I am certain we will both find the perfect combination of wax, wick, and FO!!!

Old Crab, I am with you when you say you like to see the FMP on the first burn! I appreciate your suggestion on the CD/LX wicks. Lucky for me I already have these wicks on hand!! Will proceed with further testing....

Chef Mom, I will keep in mind your advice on the dark colors and also the CD/LX wicks. It really was a sad little flame Being a first time user of HTP wicks I see what you mean when you say it is a self-trimming wick. The throw was pretty good on both candles so it should be really awesome once the correct wick is identified!! I never thought of filling the jar only half way on a tester first time around, never seen that mentioned on the board either, but very good suggestion—after all who wouldn’t like to save time and $$, right?

Thanks to all :smiley2:

[pixisprkl]

When I used 4627 straight, I had the best luck with zinc wicks... the scent throw was great but the mushrooming was horrid. I know that zinc wicks are not usually recommended for this wax, but I tried so many wicks and always went back to the zincs. At the time, I lived in a humid state with lots of rain... now I am starting testing in the desert. LOL, I know it sounds silly, but it seems to me that the wax, fo, and wicks are reacting differently here. Sorry I couldn't help with your particular wick... :/

[Terry]

Pixisprkl, Thanks for your response anyway--I also have some zinc wicks on hand and will try them too...got my work cut out for me.... And BTW good luck in the desert, perhaps lower humidity will be better for your candles, keep me posted...

[debratant]

I use htp wicks exclusively in 4627 wax. I'm guessing your diameter is about 31/2 inches in that first jar? I would definetly wick up to a 93...maybe even higher to a 104. I seem to recall reading somewhere...and I can't remember where as it has been so long....that 4627 needs to be wicked up two sizes from what is recommended. For example...if candle science wick chart says 73 for 3 inch diameter...then you should wick up to 93. I have no clue where I read that...but know I read it somewhere on some site LOL.

I typically use 104 and 105's in 3-4 inch jars.

Another tip is to twist your htp wick a few turns so that when it burns it will turn and you won't get a lopsided melt pool Just give it a few twists before you put your wick holder on.

[Terry]

Deb, I do have some 104's in house, will try those. Is there a big diff between the 104 and the 105 (since they are only one digit away?) The tip about twisting the wick makes good sense...I thought I had the wick spot on in the center of the jar on the first pix and didn't understand why the burn seemed to be favoring one side! Thanks for responding! :smiley2:

[debratant]

Good Morning! As far as the difference between 104 and 105...105 burns a hair hotter. Check out this site for excellent info on the different wicks and their burn properties!

http://www.wicksunlimited.com/atkins_pearce_htp_wicks.php

As far as twisting, because the htp curls...it tends to throw more heat in a certain direction. Twisting the wick a few turns seems to help with off center burn pools. I can't remember which genius on here suggested it LOL.

[Terry]

Thanks again Deb

[Jeana]

A little tip on HTP wicks, don't trim them. They may look a little long to start with each light but if your candle has the correct size it will be fine. They are a self trimming wick, and they don't work on the old rule of the 1/4" start. They really are a very good wick. I haven't had much experience in straight paraffin but in a soy blend the self trimming holds true. Don't expect a full melt pool on the first few lights, don't worry as long as it has a decent flame it will catch up. I use a rule for myself that a flame is fine as long as it doesn't go over 1" or go under 3/4". (If the candle has been burning for longer than 4.5+ hours and it is down at the bottom of the jar a 1.25" flame is still acceptable for me.)

Also leaving your HTP wick longer for the first light is really important. I usually start mine at 3/8". And there isn't a need to twist your wicks if you have the right size. It will catch up and clean the sides, it just takes a few lights.Try the size your are using in the pics but with a longer start and no trimming and see what happens.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jeana

[Candle guy]

Old crab,

 

I use LX wicks for my jelly jars using 4627. Usually a lx 18 seems to work for most fragrances. Occasionally I wick down. I am still working on perfecting this wax but it's tough. I get a great cold and hot throw. I find that the lx wick dances a bit but burns the sides down cleanly and has great ht. Give them a try

[ThisLittleLightOfMine]

Candleguy I too have been trying to get the dancing flame thing under control but I'm thinking it is what it is... I am getting good cold throw and good got throw and after usually 2-3 four hour test burns it's already started to take care of the side hangups nearly completely so I'm about at the point of just dealing with the dancing flames... Its not shooting or anything. I decided to double wick my 8 oz country apothecary jar with either 2 lx 16s or 2 lx 18s depending on scent and color. 

[Former Member]

This wax is so vicious that, in my experience, it is impossible to get a full melt pool in any container greater than 2" in diameter. "Hangups" are a reality with this wax. This doesn't bother me personally because the throw is still better than any soy candle with a full melt pool, IMO. I only use HTP's with this wax. I have tried many of them, and in my experience, no other wick can hold a flame to the self-trimming nature the HTP's that you need with 4627. I wouldn't go above an HTP 83. Everytime I have tried anything bigger than an 83 it just soots like crazy and the flame becomes a little out of control for my liking. I use 12% FO in my candles. The hangups, usually, will continuously fall down as the candle burns, but never a full melt pool in a container with a 3" diameter, for example. Let them burn for a long time with the HTP 83's. Caution labels generally say not to burn for more than 4 hours. These instructions were not made for the HTP/4627 combination! With an HTP 83, I would say burn for at least 4 hours, preferably longer. I've burned them for up to 12 hours before and the flame never got out of control. It may look a little small compared to what you are used to seeing with candles, however this is a tradeoff for the exceptional scent throw that you get with this wax.

 

Occasionally you will come across a scent that normally people would say to "wick up" (these scents tend to be more yellow in appearance). I would say don't wick up because of the sooting it will cause. Soy wax is an extremely valuable additive for this wax that will lower the melt point, and increase the size of your melt pool. For those scents that you feel need to be wicked up, I would suggest doing a blend with GB 464 (which can also hold up to 12% FO) to achieve your desired results. This should not make a noticeable difference in throw. 75/25 of 4627/464 is a good place to start for these scents. 4627 is a very slow burning wax, on par with soy waxes for burn time, and it requires patience. You shouldn't judge the wick by how it burns in the first half of the candle. Wait until it is finished to make your assessment.

[Guest OldGlory]

I have been told that IGI 6006 is 4627 (70%) and some sort of soy, like 415 (30%).

I sell thousands of jar candles in 6006 every year and I use zinc wicks in them. The zinc will mushroom, but these wicks just need to be trimmed. Great HT.