Doggie soap, confused!

[lsbennis]

I have been wanting to make a doggie soap for a while now but I keep getting conflicting information when I research the internet regarding EO's. Some say they are safe and fine to use on your dog and some say they would never use EO's in any products that come in contact with dogs/animals. Which is correct or is both correct? :undecided

So far this is what I'm thinking of using in my soap...

Coconut Oil

Palm oil/or maybe Lard

Neem oil

Castor Oil

Olive Oil

EO/FO

Oatmeal

[ProudMarineMom]

Not to be a downer, but there is a thread on this particular subject on another forum. A lady had her dog bathed by a groomer at the kennel on a Friday then kenneled for the weekend. They groomer used a shampoo of a common liquid Castille that had 1% EO as an ingredient (rosemary, mint and tea tree). The oils were not used in excess nor did it include any that are considered toxic to animals. However, the dog had a strong allergic reaction and became itchy. By Monday he had hot spots and ended up in severe pain due to chewing the areas that itched. By Tuesday he was septic and not responding to antibiotics. They ended up having to euthanize the poor thing.

There was nothing wrong with the shampoo nor the ingredients. Unfortunately, the dog was just extremely sensitive to essential oils and scratched and chewed himself to a very bad infection. Antibiotics just didn't help. The people on the forum will make a soap or shampoo for use on their own animals but not for sale.

Are you making this just for your own personal use? I would probably just use your recipe without the EO or FO just to be on the safe side. If you do use EO, just watch the pup for any signs of dermatitis.

For reference, the lady that told the story works as a technician in the Vet's office the dog was brought to for treatment.

Edited January 3, 2013 by ProudMarineMom

[lsbennis]

Oh my...that is a very sad story, poor dog. Some friends that have used my soaps asked if I had anything for dogs, I have been thinking about making a doggie soap for awhile now and decided to give it a try but after reading all the conflicting information maybe I will do like you suggested and just leave the eo/fo out of the equation. Thanks for your insight PMM

[lsg]

You can include neem seed oil in your doggie soap. Neem oil repels insects and is good for the skin. I use about 20% neem seed oil. You will need to use an acv rinse after shampooing also. The trouble with homemade soap is that the pH is higher than is good for a dog's skin. You might try rebatching the soap and adding citric acid solution to lower the pH. Use a little at a time until you get a pH around 7.

Edited January 3, 2013 by lsg

[Candybee]

I've been doing some research myself as I want to start a line of dog friendly soaps. I want to start out with a sensitive skin type dog soap and maybe one for smelly dogs. I want to start out with a scent and dye free formula first before I try anything else.

I think the dog that had the skin reaction sounds to me like a dog with sensitive skin. I don't think this type of reaction is the norm for most dogs. But it does make one think. I have seen some special FO blends for dogs and cats on some website-- is it Brambleberry or Nature's Garden? Don't know if they are safe for sensitive dogs but should be okay for normal skin dogs.

[lsbennis]

Thanks lsg, I read that the ph needs to be around 7 and then I also read that if you HP the soap the ph is lower then CP, is this correct? What is an acv rinse?

[TallTayl]

Part of the problem with bathing dogs is using too much product. Another, probably bigger concern is inadequate rinsing. Any soap or detergent product that is not completely rinsed has the potential to cause skin irritation even if unscented.

Dogs can't tell you that their skin stings, they just scratch and bite themselves bloody opening the pathway for infection and sepsis. People naturally want to blame the soap or shampoo since that is what they used, and are not unlikely to want to sue for damages to cover the vet bill.

[LovelyLathers]

Natures Garden has pet friendly FO's I have used them and neem in my pet soap. My Son uses it on their dog all the time with out problems. I would not use an EO at all, too many risks.

[moonshine]

I dont make soaps at all but I have made dog and horse shampoos with essential oils using a base of baby shampoo- its extremely mild to start with

My very old Lab has very sensitive skin and would get hot spots often from chewing so much before I started treating him with my blends

Like Proudmarinemom stated - EO's can be very dangerous to any particular animal or human at any given time and have to be used with so much caution- I myself am very careful buying products from people that use EO and would never sell to the public my products (I do to family and friends only and thankfully the products have only helped not hurt! lol)

and like lovelylathers stated the risks are there and you should probably not use them if you dont have the time and interest to research and learn about them before you make and sell them

I serioulsy hurt myself when I first ventured into EO's- I thought no way can anything that heals and is natural and pure can hurt..... well it did- I poisoned myself - there is so much bogus info out there on the safety and use of oils and that is when I began to take classes intending on becoming certified in aromatherapy but got side tracked again and never finished it but I have alot of notes and reliable books- I am not at all trying to come off as a "know it all" because I dont- seriously not even close- EO's make me nervous and I am more cautious than ever now but I would just like to offer what I have learned in classes and trial and error to those that are serious about using them

I think EO use in animals is a great thing in moderation- reactions can happen and you never know when they will happen and to whom and like Talltayl stated rinsing is huge with shampoo products- and you will know right away if they react to it by the itching- I always let the animal smell the product first- with horses anyways they will turn their head if they do not need that particular oil or are repelled by it- its so amazing to watch them when they DO like it and need it- nostrils flaring and breathing so deeply and calmly until they have had enough and then dropping their head in total relaxation- it should be a commercial really! lol

I have learned People dilution is generally 2% or 6 drops EO per 1/2 ounce carrier oil- some relieable sites say you can use 15 drops per 30ml of carrier and I have done this also

Kids-Pregnant People and the the elderly is 1% or 3 drops of EO per 1/2 ounce carrier oil and this is what I stick with for dogs- horses I sometimes use 2 or more percent depending on the issue

I never use on cats- they metabolize differently and I myself wont take the risk

Neem Oil I found to be wonderful for itches and can be applied neet to problem spots- it smells IMO but love the stuff

jojoba oil, grapefruit seed extract and floral waters I have also used in the baby shampoo base and found it to be great for dry skin and shiny coats

I am happy to share what blends and amounts I have used successfully on my dogs and horses in regards to shampoos if you want to PM me- I dont want to post information that can be taken too lightly by the type of people that are out for a quick buck and plan to mass produce with zero understanding of what they are even doing

[moonshine]

Not to be a downer, but there is a thread on this particular subject on another forum. A lady had her dog bathed by a groomer at the kennel on a Friday then kenneled for the weekend. They groomer used a shampoo of a common liquid Castille that had 1% EO as an ingredient (rosemary, mint and tea tree). The oils were not used in excess nor did it include any that are considered toxic to animals. However, the dog had a strong allergic reaction and became itchy. By Monday he had hot spots and ended up in severe pain due to chewing the areas that itched. By Tuesday he was septic and not responding to antibiotics. They ended up having to euthanize the poor thing.

There was nothing wrong with the shampoo nor the ingredients. Unfortunately, the dog was just extremely sensitive to essential oils and scratched and chewed himself to a very bad infection. Antibiotics just didn't help. The people on the forum will make a soap or shampoo for use on their own animals but not for sale.

wow- very sad story

The dog was bathed on friday and then kenneled for the weekend- do they know for sure if it was the shampoo and not something else that he could of gotten into at the kennel or another dogs food he ate and reacted to?

The rosemary and mints are generally safe- as far as tea tree- I have read conflicting info on use of this in small animals as far as how safe it really is and as far as the 1% thats a safe dilution as well-....I wonder if it was a homemade product or a commerical one

Are you making this just for your own personal use? I would probably just use your recipe without the EO or FO just to be on the safe side. If you do use EO, just watch the pup for any signs of dermatitis.

For reference, the lady that told the story works as a technician in the Vet's office the dog was brought to for treatment.

wow- very sad story

The dog was bathed on friday and then kenneled for the weekend- do they know for sure if it was the shampoo and not something else that he could of gotten into at the kennel or another dogs food he ate and reacted to?

The rosemary and mints are generally safe- as far as tea tree- I have read conflicting info on use of this in small animals as far as how safe it really is and as far as the 1% thats a safe dilution as well-....I wonder if it was a homemade product or a commerical one

Edited January 4, 2013 by moonshine

[deb426]

Tea tree oil is very toxic to cats. I won't keep it anywhere in my house. I would always worry that by using it on my dog, the cats would come in contact with the dog and they would get poisoned that way. My cats are always rubbing up against my dog. Sometimes they even try to groom her.

[lsbennis]

Thanks everyone for your help, I'm definitely going to leave the eo's outta the soap!

[Candybee]

Thanks Moonshine for your input!!

I think I will go with my scent free idea for a dog soap and start out with a baby soap formula and use chamomile and calendula for infusion into the soap oil. I was thinking of a simple castile with herb infused oils. I like to keep it simple.

deb426-- thanks for the info about tea tree oil and cats. I have a small vial of tea tree EO in my medicine cabinet at home I never use. I also have to cats at home and now I just want to toss out that bottle!!

[deisel]

in the past i have used weak sprays of both eucalyptus and peppermint EOs on my dog as flea repellents. when i adopted a cat, thought i would use these for the fleas. after searching online, i found that most, if not all, EOs are dangerous, even deadly, for cats. so i agree with deb426-would not use any on the dog in case the cat would ingest some while playing. on the other hand, i have seen some commercial-dog only- products that contain a variety of EOs (even cinammon oil-talk about maybe irritating!!). i will say though, that my dogs never had adverse reactions OR fleas when i used the peppermint and eucalyptus EOs.

kris