Hardwood Wickster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I am a newbie here this morning, although a long time reader and have learned so much from all the reads on this forum. My wife and I have been testing and making candles for ourselves for over a year now, thought we had the process down and because of demand we have start selling them for just about a month now... Anyway I had one customer come to me this morning and show me a picture of one of my candles burning out of control. Has anyone had this before and technically speaking from the more experienced chandliers than me. what would be causing this?(first try at attaching a pic didn't work).. trying again Edited January 11, 2012 by Hardwood Wickster no attachment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwood Wickster Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Was it a container candle? Did you your candle all the way down? Container candles burn different towards the end than they do at the beginning. If it was burning 'out of control' it may be that it was overwicked for the last half of the candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Okay. Your picture just popped up after I posted. Looks like some foreign substance got into your candle or possibly FO seeped out and puddled at the top. Whichever looks like it was a flammable substance and when it was lit it created a huge flame.Either that or there could have been an air pocket in the candle along the wick. When the melted wax hit the pocket it seeped into the hole causing the wick to flare up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwood Wickster Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 My thoughts as well that either the FO wasnt mixed good and it hit a pocket of concentrated FO... although my customer said he poured out the melted wax three times and this pic was from the last time, all other burns were the same way... in any case this is scary stuff... wouldn't had dreamed this would happen... makes me really wonder about the rest of my inventory. the FO is Lemon and the flash point is at 127.. which is somewhat lower than most but again i didn't think it was a problem... Id really like to know the root cause before i go selling anymore... or better yet seriously preventing this from happening againthanks Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) [ATTACH=CONFIG]23287[/ATTACH]Wow! *shudder* That's really scary. What kind of wax? type and size of wick? FO load? type and diameter of container? Is it possible the candle was burned in a much hotter room than what you test in? Do you test to the end? Do you torture burn? Edited January 11, 2012 by HorsescentS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 From the pic, that's not the wick, or the FO, the whole candle is on fire, the wax has reached it's flashpoint and it caught on fire. I've seen this happen with embeds, and excess debris on the surface lighting on fire. Get the candle back, and take pictures of it (cool) What wicks and wax are you using? Diameter of the candle? What temp do you mix the FO in? Are they powerburners (burning for more than 1 hr per inch?)Why did they pour the melted wax out? Did they trim the wick at all? Have they burned your candles before? All questions (and pics) will be helpful in diagnosing this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Was the container glass? Looks like the container itself may be burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwood Wickster Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Sorry i should have stated out all the details in my initial post.... here's the letdown4627 Wax21 oz Status Jar, 3" dia.Wick, homemade hardwood... which has been extensively tested and know this isn't the issueFO load 8% typically, some slightly more some slightly less but always within 1/10 or 2/10 a ounce on 4 lb batchesPour temp 180, stirring well over 1 1/2 min and try most generally to stir 2 min b4 pouringThe candle was burnt in normal conditions, from the look of the pic it was on the dining room table... i know the guy personally i sold it too, a good friend.. he poured the melted pool of wax out to try again assuming something was in it just there (trying to help analyze for me as to why this was doing it I'm sure)... i do test to the end and over the hundreds ive tested ive never had this happen.. in this case the candle was a fresh one just sold it to him yesterday, he went home and attempted to burn it for his wife, etc... and yes they have burned my candles before three others actually.. and loved them all.. again this is the only time out of the hundereds weve tested and over the hundred we've sold within the last month that this has happened withHopefully this will give you with enough info to get to why this occurredand by fresh one i mean one thats new... i always cure my candles over a week before they are sold... again something ive learned from the posts on here and thru testing that actually does make a difference in most candlesthanks for all your guys' helpmuch appreciated!! Edited January 11, 2012 by Hardwood Wickster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwood Wickster Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 yes.. i asked the question to him whether he seen the transition from just the wick burning to the wick and wax burning... and his response was no but it was definitely more than just the wick burning... I will get the jar back on Thursday and will light it up myself to see if i can duplicate whats going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Several months ago, there was a pic posted of a candle that caught fire and exploded, and it was a 3" dia Libbey 11 oz tumbler with a CD 12 wick. The problem was that the wick was too big and burned too hot for that size container. 4627 wax with an 8% FO load, stirred for 2 minutes, in a 3" dia 21 oz status jar shouldn't burst into flames, unless it's overwicked, or there's flammable debris, or a puddle of FO. I love wood wicks, but I've been concerned that it would be hard to standardize the way they burn, so they seem unpredictable to me no matter how well-made they are. Edited January 11, 2012 by HorsescentS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The wood wick is the problem, I can almost guarantee it and here is what happenedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q67Doz0UnXwWood wicks are extremely unpredictable especially homemade ones, each piece of wood is different and each will wick differently. Commercially available wood wicks are from softer woods and are very thin. They are also treated with a few different chemicals to control the burn and even then they are unpredictable. I'm not sure exactly which wax they used above but I know it is a smooth paraffin wax and is very, very similar to 4627/4630. (I have burned a few candles from their company)Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksranch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 WOW! My DH is a woodworker and knows a lot about wood - when we discussed wood wicks he said no - flat out, no questions asked. I showed him this vidio (and the pic of the out of control one) and he just grinned and said I told you so. That sh** is scary!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I never would have thought the wax would actually catch fire because of the wick. This is good info to keep in mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysj Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've been testing wood wicks & have never had that happen before. I also have a 22 ounce candle that has a wood wick & is over half way burned down & have never had a flame come up like that. I think it's more than just the wick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 the flash point of the FO is not relevant once it is mixed into the wax. the flash point of the MIXTURE is pretty much an average of those of the components weighted by the relative amounts of the components. the impact on the 6-8% FO on the flash point of the wax (375F) is pretty minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleMakinCutiePie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I had a feeling that was a wood wick.Poor wood wicks.They are so pretty and get such a bad rap..I make them for myself all the time and get the best ht with them.I've never had this crazy flamage happen myself but I could see how it's possible.I get my wood wicks from Bitter Creek and Lonestar and always wick for the second half of the jar because it gets pretty hot towards the end,especially if you power burn(which I always do.)I'd definitely stop selling these and do some retesting if I were you.Good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Months ago there was another wood wick candle fire with pics posted here. I'm pretty sure it was a wood wick. I can't get it to come up on Search, but I think the thread title was: "Please, Please Help Me!!!" I wonder if that thread was taken down because it seemed to disappear. It was a Libbey Interlude jar, or maybe the Anchor version where the jar is narrower in the middle. She sold some fall candles to a family member, who often bought candles from her with no problems, and they power burned it overnight, so when it had burned down to the narrow part of the jar it burst into flames, and the wife quickly carried it outside and had to go to the hospital for burns on her hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periwinkle Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Months ago there was another wood wick candle fire with pics posted here. I'm pretty sure it was a wood wick. I can't get it to come up on Search, but I think the thread title was: "Please, Please Help Me!!!" I wonder if that thread was taken down because it seemed to disappear. I think the whole search thing is very broken now. Earlier, I was looking for a thread that I started, and couldn't find it using the search, so I went to my profile, to pull it up that way, and it shows that I've only made 2 or 3 posts, instead of the 230ish I have. And there were no topics started by me listed, although I have started a few. It seems that whatever went wrong a couple of weeks ago, really messed things up. Now searching for info will be very hard.It was a Libbey Interlude jar, or maybe the Anchor version where the jar is narrower in the middle. She sold some fall candles to a family member, who often bought candles from her with no problems, and they power burned it overnight, so when it had burned down to the narrow part of the jar it burst into flames, and the wife quickly carried it outside and had to go to the hospital for burns on her hands.Yikes! How scary. Edited January 11, 2012 by periwinkle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?94331-Please-Please-Help!& Here is the thread, it was a libbey interlude c3/glassglow combo double wicked with cd7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseScentS Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?94331-Please-Please-Help!& Here is the thread, it was a libbey interlude c3/glassglow combo double wicked with cd7001, thank you so much! So, it wasn't a wood wick that time, but overwicked nonetheless. Very scary! Especially since so many wood-wicked candles on Etsy are made in that same jar which overheats in the narrow part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Wow, that You Tube is scary stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugtussle Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yes, if wax is overwicked and gets too hot, it will catch fire and burn! I posted about this 5 yrs ago when a tin caught fire using CDs. I will NOT use a woodwick, very unpredictable. Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark-me-up Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just a thought... grab a couple of candles out of your inventory (& the same batch, if you can) & burn them... see what happens.This is very disheartening =( I hope you can suss it out... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I will NOT use a woodwick, very unpredictable.I completely agree, Carole. Wood wicks are not as predictable and accurate as are woven wicks manufactured for use in candles. While I might make a wood wick candle for my own personal use, I would use them for making products to sell to the general public about the same time as pigs sprout wings and fly. For those not around then, when Carole had the experience she described above, we TRIED to set a candle on fire. I deliberately overwicked one and burned it under extreme conditions. I had to stop because the interior temp of the candle exceeded the limit of my thermometer (500 or 600°F, I forget now). I was pretty impressed with that little test... Another member reported having a glass candle shatter, spewing flaming wax on the table where it was sitting and glass across the room. The room was on the cold side. The container could not take the thermal shock. These issues are REAL and I hope that people can learn from the scary experiences of others posted on this forum.Just because someone has "never had a problem" does NOT MEAN this is safe! It means they have been LUCKY. In this case, the customer brought the problem to the candlemaker's attention. If this had caused a house fire, there might not have been enough left to take a photo.People really need to remember that we are making a product for personal home use that contains an open flame. This is NOT something to take cavalierly. Excessive heat in the container WILL cause fires. Containers which shatter because of thermal stress WILL cause fires. Due diligence in testing is imperative!I am sorry to annoy some people by always harping on safety, but some of the responses I read and the candles I see burning out in the world are heartbreaks waiting to happen. I would rather aggravate 10,000 people than have ONE of them put a product out that causes harm.My best advice to Hardwood Wickster is to sh*tcan the wood wicks and use regular wicks. Do your product testing (wick & container) as if your family's lives and home depend on it. And say a prayer of thanks that your candle did not cause any harm to another. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCE HERE - I hope it makes everyone re-examine their own testing procedures and materials no matter HOW long they have been making candles nor whether they have ever had a problem. Edited January 12, 2012 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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